Author Topic: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?  (Read 10616 times)

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Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2011, 10:38:19 PM »
ITT: People with no imagination, who would rather have characters stay the same instead of writers adding some interesting things to both the plot and the characters.

(click to show/hide)

I mean... none of you even bothered to discuss what I wrote about MOSTLY in my posts, instead jumping at other things and continuing with your silly little delusions that making X stay the same through the whole course of the story is a good idea.

....

You know what? I'M PISSED because of something else right now(Real life thing) so I'll direct my anger at this thread.

You know what's the real truth? HONEST truth? Characters like X are, pretty much, [tornado fang]ing horrible. I'll admit, Inti managed to make him a bit more interesting through that whole "I LOST MY PURPOSE" thing, but it still didn't change the fact... that HE didn't really change at all.
He was still the holy robo-Jesus he always was.
Now, I'm not saying I want to have X go and kill everyone and everything at random... but I just overall want him to become more believable.
Because seriously, I get the point that he's a good natured pacifist in both za haato and maindo, but this is not the right way.
I mean, isn't he supposed to be a robot with a "soul"? Isn't he supposed to have shitload of emotions? If so, then what's so wrong, what's so OUT OF CHARACTER in him finally giving up, and choosing to create a law which according to him is the lsser of two evils?

Or let's take a different look, taking another one of the examples from my previous posts.
Let's say real X made the law to dispose of all Repliroids that are even suspected of being Irregulars, but he hates it. He hates the very thing he did, but he knows there's no other choice, at least not at that moment.

The important thing here is obvious. Just because a character starts doing things, seemingly against his nature, it does not mean it's a bad thing.
Especially taking into account how much time X has spent alone, fighting without his best buddy Zero. Since he is such a EMOTIONAL Repliroid, it would be only natural for him to be wrong about something, or even stray from his usual path (a lot, or only a bit... which depends on the take you want to go with)

In other words, MAN THE [tornado fang] UP GUYS (or GIRL THE [tornado fang] UP). Stop being so boring and think about nice possibilities, instead of categorizing every change in a charater as a "bad one" or "Failure".

That's it from me for now.
Remember, I'm not hating, just sayian what I think on this whole matter of "Real X villain" thing. : >

Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2011, 10:40:43 PM »
If you want to write fanfics..do it.

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2011, 10:55:55 PM »
If you want to write fanfics..do it.
No. Just no.
Don''t turn my posts in this thread into some sick and pathetic fanfic idea (even though I had one like this, it was still different from the examples I presented here).
I was actually trying to just raise a point on how turning the real X into a villain opens many ways oif storytelling, and doesn't mean chara derailment and bad plot.
Jesus.

Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2011, 11:04:07 PM »
And don't call us a bunch of spineless hacks for being wary of such a massive change to X's character going horribly wrong.

No. Just no.
Don''t turn my posts in this thread into some sick and pathetic fanfic idea (even though I had one like this, it was still different from the examples I presented here).
I was actually trying to just raise a point on how turning the real X into a villain opens many ways oif storytelling, and doesn't mean chara derailment and bad plot.
Jesus.

So what, all fanfic = character derailment and idiot plots? Because that's not true.

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2011, 11:11:50 PM »
I sense a lock in this thread's future...

Anywho, I did read what you said in your posts, but I just thought I'd say my thoughts on the subject first. You did bring up some very good points, but I don't think the series, or ZX for that matter, would be the same if real X was the bad guy instead of Copy X. And, honestly, I think if that was the case you'd be here asking "What if Mega Man X wasn't the bad guy?" and coming up with possibilities as to who would be, probably with Copy X at the head of the list.

Just my thoughts.
OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
If that counts as a hint then a truck crashing through your wall counts as subtle.

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2011, 11:20:25 PM »
And don't call us a bunch of spineless hacks for being wary of such a massive change to X's character going horribly wrong.

So what, all fanfic = character derailment and idiot plots? Because that's not true.
That's not what I... [tornado fang] it. I'm not explaining anything anymore.
I'll only say, that what I presented in my posts was POSSIBLE scenarios of Tyrant X, and I never intended to force my opinion on anybody, nor did I wanted to say Inti would NOT possibly screw up bad guy X. Also, I didn't want to insult anybody, so if you feel insulted. Well... sorry about that.

: /

I sense a lock in this thread's future...

Anywho, I did read what you said in your posts, but I just thought I'd say my thoughts on the subject first. You did bring up some very good points, but I don't think the series, or ZX for that matter, would be the same if real X was the bad guy instead of Copy X. And, honestly, I think if that was the case you'd be here asking "What if Mega Man X wasn't the bad guy?" and coming up with possibilities as to who would be, probably with Copy X at the head of the list.

Just my thoughts.

Ha, ha... maybe I would, maybe I would not. We might never know. Just like we might never know if Tyrant X would turn out to be a good thing.
--------------------------
Overall, I'm sorry that I wanted to state my own opinion on this subject, that I presented my own possibilities regarding it, and that I dared to disagree with some of you. Sorry again. : <

Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2011, 11:25:53 PM »
Quote
Overall, I'm sorry that I wanted to state my own opinion on this subject, that I presented my own possibilities regarding it, and that I dared to disagree with some of you. Sorry again. : <

My problem was that you were yelling at us in that last post. :/

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2011, 11:33:14 PM »
My problem was that you were yelling at us in that last post. :/
I didn't yell in any of my posts.
As I said I'm kinda pissed, so maybe it just came out that way, really.
Sorry again.

I just wanted to start/take part in some megaman discussion for a change, but I might have overdid it.

Offline Krystal

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2011, 02:20:06 AM »
o/ I said that it was possible, and that it could be cool, but do not want. It would be too angsty. And tragic.

Also, aren't alternate possibilities that are non-canonical the whole point of fanfics? A fanfic doesn't have to be bad. A doujin doesn't have to be porn. Right?
Um...also...uh...when you're angry, you tend to sound angry. This is fact. When you're taking out your anger on a forum post the forum post also tends to sound angry. Sounding angry whilst addressing others usually suggests that you're angry at them.
If you don't want people to get angry at you for sounding angry then don't make a post...whilst angry. Parts of that may not have made sense.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2011, 04:49:09 PM »
The "Fallen Hero" thing only works, IMHO, if the hero in question is no longer being used.  The fact that the X-series was ongoing throws quite a monkey wrench into that, which is one point Inti actually brought up in the "X changed to Copy X" discussion.  It makes any chronologically previous character development, which is still being worked on, absolutely meaningless if you already know that it's all going to end in a 180 turn during the series-gap.

Copy X MK1 is himself a character that I grew rather fond of, because he's the kind of villain I love to hate.  He's not just evil, his powers of suggestion are among the most dangerous we've seen.  Most serious villains believe that they're doing the right thing, but to turn previous heroes (the Big Four) to your cause, not through coersion or infection, but through name recognition and rationalization?  That's when you know you're dealing with somebody sick; his methods to corrupt others is something unique to what we usually see in the MegaMan story.

It also really does fly in the face of X's purpose, the whole theme of viewing human and robotic life equally.  It's something they made a point of emphasizing in later X-series games, in Inti's own Zero-series concepts (the infamous Three Keys, for example), and which also eases the inevitable tie-in to Legends, where we find artificial beings virtually indistinguishable from the real thing.  The effects of making X the villain would cause ripples well beyond the Zero-series alone.  Good or bad, it's something to consider.

Heck, if you really want to, you don't even have to make X that much of a bad guy. You can make him even more tragic, by making him a character who created that horrible policy of Repliroid disposal, because he simply had no other choice, and was forced into it by the bad situation Neo Arcadia and humanity in general was in. In other words, make him do something he clearly hates. He's fighting for it, even though he knows it's wrong.
They basically did that with Harpuia, making him the most "X-like" of the Big Four across Z2 and Z3.

Also, I stand by what I said earlier; review the entire ZERO-series, see how much of it relies on Cyber Elf X. The entire foundation of the series' greatest moments comes crumbling down without Zero's undying devotion toward X's cause.

So be it... But that's why we are the best partners... I'll do what you want... Rest for a while. I will handle it, you can count on me. I won't stop! When an enemy appears... I'll terminate it..
I have to agree.  X himself is a tremendous part of Zero's motivation, reiterated throughout the X-series all the way up until Zero4.  Their bond is a pretty heavy foundation for both characters, across both series.  Had X truly flipped, then combined with Zero's amnesia, it would cause Zero's own character to warp.  His future character developments would be difficult if not impossible to tie back to the Zero we're familiar with from XXX years ago.

In itself, this wouldn't necessarily be bad, but it does pose quite a risk of alienation when Inti has already screwed with Zero's design to the furthest degree that Inafune would let them get away with, and wiped his memory on top of that, meaning the changes to his personality would tie in no way whatsoever to his past experiences.  And that's the problem.  There's a difference between character growth and character reboot.  Zero's look and memory are screwed to hell; it's his motivations that keep his identity intact throughout the Zero series.  Otherwise we're left with "Mega Man Red Guy With A Sword".

Also, on great moments:
I appreciate Copy-X existence since it prevented that real X got killed by Zero.
"...the original X was mightier than you!"
I can't tell you how much I love that line.  Taking someone who got on top of the world by abusing a true hero's name, and putting him in his place. 8)

"Your pants are on fire."

Offline Treleus

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2012, 07:10:20 AM »
On the one hand, I love that X's 100 years of fighting and trying to build a better world didn't go to waste because X made mistakes he knew were wrong. You'd think after a century you'd learn something about conflict resolution and societal integrity/people's rights, even if you did stop caring. It's hard to shake your own conscience when you've got something to fight for. Like two races of sentient beings/the world.

On the other hand, I DO agree that having the real X as a fallen hero, and not necessarily a typical "BAD GUY" like Sigma, would've made a good tragedy. I just think it would've been too tragic, and almost a petty mistake on Inafune's part that makes him look all butthurt that X was the hero of the X series and not Zero. 'Specially since, y'know, showing his boss "X" as the main character with Zero as the cooler sidekick was his idea in the first place.

Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2012, 06:35:14 PM »
You'd think after a century you'd learn something about conflict resolution and societal integrity/people's rights, even if you did stop caring.

Us humans have been at it for thousands of years and look where we still are.

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Offline Jericho

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2012, 07:08:49 PM »
I can only repeast myself, again:

I appreciate Copy-X existence since it prevented that real X got killed by Zero.

Agreed.

I don't think I ever put my two cents in on the matter, but honestly, I'm damn happy that the character didn't evolve and go in a direction that would pretty much tarnish his legacy. Sometimes pure characters should stay pure and given how the Zero series portrayed X as a exceedingly tired and somber personality versus his passionate and optimistic self in the X series, even that much comes into question.

While I agree that the fallen hero angle could work and would probably be something big due to player attachments and the idea that without Zero's memories of X from back in the days (thus pretty much wiping out all ties back to previous characterizations and also their shared history), it's just a bit too tragic for his character.

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2012, 07:49:26 PM »
I'm not going to argue, since I really don't give a [tornado fang] anymore.
But I'll throw in two things:

One, I would have been willing to accept Copy X more, if.. IF, we would have actually seen him more. The most we've seen of him was in the third game. Yet there he was, a casual tool in the hands of Vile... with speech problems to boot.

Two, Saying that is it would be too tragic for X, reeks of blind fanboyism. Nothing is too tragic for a character. Unless your character is from a fluffy and puffy world where everything always works out thanks to the magic of friendship.
But I think Rockman X/Zero world was supposed to be this kinda dark post-apocalyptic world where [parasitic bomb] gets [tornado fang]'d up for people more than often.
Oh but what do I know?

Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2012, 09:35:54 PM »
Are you telling me that you would STILL enjoy X in the MMX series if you knew he was goint to turn into Hitler?

Offline Align

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2012, 09:44:17 PM »
I would.

I don't really see the connection, if we're talking enjoyment. It's the journey that's interesting, not the destination. In fact that's pretty much what character development is all about.
It might add a weird tragic undertone to everything he does, but that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for a character...

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2012, 09:59:24 PM »
Are you telling me that you would STILL enjoy X in the MMX series if you knew he was goint to turn into Hitler?
Yes. Because...

I would.

I don't really see the connection, if we're talking enjoyment. It's the journey that's interesting, not the destination. In fact that's pretty much what character development is all about.
It might add a weird tragic undertone to everything he does, but that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for a character...

... Pretty much this. There's no real problem with making X the villain. In fact, I believe I said in this thread few times how it could have been handled WITHOUT completely "destroying" (like some of you claim) his character.

Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2012, 10:08:06 PM »
Eh...if you say so. Though, I can't imagine it working all that well...but I guess our opinions are too different.

Offline Align

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2012, 12:12:11 AM »
Well, it's all down to execution. Inti Creates somehow got it right with the MMZ we all know, but I dunno if they would have managed the same with the real X.

Offline Treleus

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2012, 04:26:51 AM »
Two, Saying that is it would be too tragic for X, reeks of blind fanboyism. Nothing is too tragic for a character. Unless your character is from a fluffy and puffy world where everything always works out thanks to the magic of friendship.
But I think Rockman X/Zero world was supposed to be this kinda dark post-apocalyptic world where [parasitic bomb] gets [tornado fang]'d up for people more than often.
Oh but what do I know?

Because Zero wasn't favored enough by Inafune over X. He should also be the villain in the sequel series to X.

Still, it would've made for a good story if X became the Sigma of the Zero series, with some kind of redemption at the end of the first game. It would just [acid burst] me off if that would've been the last we'd ever hear of him. Aside from his clone troopers.

Offline Omega Zero

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2012, 12:05:49 PM »
Well X isn't the villain in the Zero series.The villain is Copy X.He was a copy of the original X that Ciel created.Because the original X was missing or guarding the dark elf like it was shown in MMZ2 he was guarding the dark elf in his sleep.But still if X were the villain in the zero series it would have been awesome.So yea pretty much X would have been a great villain in the Zero series if he was the original X...but alas the villain is copy X.And when Elpizo or whatever his name is...destroyed the dark elf's prison along with the original X thus ending X's existence but X lived on as an elf as well...in MMZ3 it was proven that X was still alive but he left at the end of Zero 3.Still if the original X was the villain he would be a lot stronger...copy X is a very inferior copy to the original X.The original X's armor was a lot better then the copy's armor...the original X had like a billion armors before and somehow he loses them all the time.That question remains...how does X lose all of his armors after every single X game?Sill copy X is extremely weaker then the original X thus proving that the X in the zero series is a copy.Except the one that was keeping the dark elf sealed up but Elpizo or whatever his name is blew up the original X also the dark elf's imprisoning and that is how X was gone from the zero series but in MMZ3 X appeared as an elf i think...But in MMZ3 he also left.And still if the original X was the villain it would  be a lot harder to fight him...seriously.
This emblem might be the last thing you see...

Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2012, 01:34:54 PM »
..Why thank you for making that clear...

Offline KoiDrake

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2012, 05:48:15 PM »
Are you telling me that you would STILL enjoy X in the MMX series if you knew he was goint to turn into Hitler?
It worked with Metal Gear.

Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2012, 06:11:57 PM »
You know what, if someone here manages to write a good megaman zero plot where the REAL X is the villain, then I will agree with you.
I doubt though that anyone would much effort into it...

Offline KoiDrake

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2012, 06:52:11 PM »
I'm not agreeing with them, I'm just saying that it COULD work. The story wouln't be any better or worse than the original, just different.