Author Topic: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?  (Read 12314 times)

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Offline Waifu

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What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« on: March 08, 2011, 03:09:40 AM »
I know that Copy X was retconned into being the main villain of the first game but still what if they stuck with the original plan and made Mega Man X the bad guy? what would be different? And what would be the same?

Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2011, 03:26:32 AM »
I think him being the real X would have been far more awesome. A hero's epic downfall. Finally pushed into a no tolerance attitude for the sake of the humans.

Would have made for a much better story. Not quite as kid friendly, but better.

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Offline Sub Tank

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2011, 04:21:23 AM »
I don't know how much sense it would make.  Plus I'm pretty bored of X and Zero fighting each other.  Can't they just [tornado fang] already and get it over with?

Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2011, 05:00:13 AM »
Can't they just [tornado fang] already and get it over with?

The awesome would be too much for the GBA.

Offline Flame

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2011, 06:52:25 AM »
Hasn't this been discussed before?
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 10:22:53 AM »
I'm trying to [tornado fang]ing write a REAL AND SRS fanfic based around this idea, for a shitload of time now (like... two years now, I think).
But I get constantly side tracked with needless bullshit.

But more on topic, yeah. It would be interesting to see X as the bad guy. It would add much more depth to the game's story. They could even do it in a way that ultimately by the end of the series, X's redeems himself for all the wrongdoings... and dies or some crap.

Either way... I've always liked this idea.

Offline Zan

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 06:59:59 PM »
I know that Copy X was retconned into being the main villain of the first game

You can't call something a retcon when it's neither in-continuity, nor retroactive.

I think him being the real X would have been far more awesome. A hero's epic downfall. Finally pushed into a no tolerance attitude for the sake of the humans.

Would have made for a much better story. Not quite as kid friendly, but better.
I'm trying to [tornado fang]ing write a REAL AND SRS fanfic based around this idea, for a shitload of time now (like... two years now, I think).
But I get constantly side tracked with needless bullshit.

But more on topic, yeah. It would be interesting to see X as the bad guy. It would add much more depth to the game's story. They could even do it in a way that ultimately by the end of the series, X's redeems himself for all the wrongdoings... and dies or some crap.

Either way... I've always liked this idea.

I think you're both underestimating how much Cyber-Elf X actually adds to the series. Many of its greatest moments could not have happened had the real X been the villain.

So, no, it does NOT make a better and deeper story, at all. Just a different one.

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2011, 07:17:40 PM »
I think you're both underestimating how much Cyber-Elf X actually adds to the series. Many of its greatest moments could not have happened had the real X been the villain.

So, no, it does NOT make a better and deeper story, at all. Just a different one.
Well... we could have not gotten such awesome moments like Elpis killing X. You're right. : >

Yeah, I know, I know. Our original X was portrayed interesting too, without being a villain. What with using his body to seal the Dark Elf and whatnot. Oh, and that stuff about losing the point behind all the battles, and that he eventually stopped caring completely.

But I still stand by my statement, that Original X as a villain, who ultimately redeems himself for his actions is a good, and even better idea than a [tornado fang]ing copy. OR EVEN BETTER! X gets his ass kicked by Zero, and doesn't redeem himself at all, believing until the very end of his misguided existence he was right.

But of course, we might never know because LOL COPY.

: <

Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2011, 07:27:28 PM »
I think turning X into a villain would be a bad idea. I wouldn't have problems if it was any other good guy from the X series but X? A Megaman? The hero of the X series? The kind X who hesitates killing a maverick because it was once a normal reploid? The X that saved the world countless times? You have played as him and you liked him. And now he's a villain who does the opposite of what he has been doing? You know how much of a kick to the face for X fans that would be?
I don't care how deep the story could've been. I don't care if it would be a symbolic plot twist or something like that. I am grateful that inticrates scrapped the original idea.
It's for reasons like this that I dislike Quint from the original series.

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2011, 07:42:25 PM »
I think turning X into a villain would be a bad idea. I wouldn't have problems if it was any other good guy from the X series but X? A Megaman? The hero of the X series? The kind X who hesitates killing a maverick because it was once a normal reploid? The X that saved the world countless times? You have played as him and you liked him. And now he's a villain who does the opposite of what he has been doing? You know how much of a kick to the face for X fans that would be?
I don't care how deep the story could've been. I don't care if it would be a symbolic plot twist or something like that. I am grateful that inticrates scrapped the original idea.
It's for reasons like this that I dislike Quint from the original series.
I don't want to argue or anything... but what part of FALLEN HERO you don't understand?
It's exactly for that reason, because you played as him and you liked him, turning him into a villain IS a good idea.
Because it makes a [tornado fang]ing IMPACT on you. It leaves a MARK.
It also opens a path to interesting character development, if the scriptwriter(s) are up to it, and considering how Zero is the most plotty of all platformer Rockman games, I think they were.

I agree, that if they just simply turned X into an evil bastard without saying anything about why and when... then yeah, it sucks.
But considering the amount of backstory we've got for certain characters, such as Elpis, Vile... heck, even Kraft and the [tornado fang]ing Judges... welll... you get the point I think.

TL;DR:
Tyrant X IS a good idea, and I believe they could have done it right if it was approved.
There. That's my opinion on this.

Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2011, 07:55:52 PM »
I understand it very well. And because of that I don't think it would be ok. Who knows, it really could have been a better story but there would still be this feeling that something isn't right. That's just me though.
Also, don't bash on Copy X. When you think about it he isn't a bad character himself. I've seen many fallen heroes, but what about a replacement hero?  CX wasn't a hero, he was nothing, he didn't have his own identity. He was given the role of hero and he did all he could to prove his worth, though sadly he never understood what it was to be one...

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2011, 08:01:14 PM »
I don't really hate Copy that much. I like him, really.
But when I think about what could have been, well you know already.

Offline Align

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2011, 08:02:50 PM »
It would have been a bit too much X's story, I think. But then I guess the series could just have been called Megaman Next Millenium or something.

Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2011, 08:57:24 PM »
While X being the bad guy could leave an impact, it might not leave the right one, you know? The justification for his Face Heel Turn could be badly written or even a non-reason, and with a guy like X, you have to be really careful about explaining it.

Besides, who says the writers wouldn't chicken out and pull something like "LOL reprogrammed", so that X wouldn't be responsible for his actions and thus is still (sorta) a good guy? That'd be a lot worse than "LOL copy", at least to me.

Offline Flame

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2011, 11:55:59 PM »
There would be VERY little in the way of WHY X would go bad. His heart feeling nothing is pretty sad, yes, but not something that would suddenly make him the complete opposite of what he has been forever. I mean, Zero doesnt really care much about the Mavericks he kills, you dont see HIM becoming a tyrant. What happened to X was simply a sad case of a pacifist becoming battle hardened.

X suddenly becoming the bad guy just wouldnt be a good idea. It wouldnt make a deep story, In fact it's deeper without X bad guy. Because we have a copy, a story BEHIND the copy, and the original, who is tied in with the story of the copy. We wouldnt have that with bad guy X.

I don't want to argue or anything... but what part of FALLEN HERO you don't understand?

the exact same part Inti Creates apparently didnt understand, because Blackhook pretty much just stated EXACTLY why Inti changed it last minute.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Waifu

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2011, 02:50:42 AM »
It owuld had been interesting to see X as the villain but Copy X always seems to get the short of the end of the stick in the series. I often wonder where the plot would go if that happnen? The Infaking pretty much went along with the changes and Zero became what it is today because of it. I wonder if the plot of the Dark Elf be different as Orginal X sealed it himself to stop the Elf Wars.

Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2011, 02:52:37 AM »
I think you're both underestimating how much Cyber-Elf X actually adds to the series.

I think you're underestimating how much would have to be done to make X do that. That's some seriously deep stuff.

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Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2011, 03:10:34 AM »
And there's a serious risk of character derailment, which isn't deep.

Offline Rin

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2011, 10:15:37 AM »
Le sigh...

Flame: You're missing the point, sorta.
People change, my friend. Their viewpoints change, especially over time... and as we know, X is full of emotions, because he was created that way. He can make his own decisions. So what's there to stop him, from suddenly getting pissed at everything, and by everything I mean of course, all those goddamn Irregulars who keep causing harm? Considering he can make his own decisions, he can also make such decisions which are simply wrong. After all, nobody is perfect. Not X, nor Zero nor anybody.
So with that in mind, the plot of Tyrant X, can be done in many ways. Some of them might lead to failure (like the example I mentioned earlier) or they can be done right.

Heck, if you really want to, you don't even have to make X that much of a bad guy. You can make him even more tragic, by making him a character who created that horrible policy of Repliroid disposal, because he simply had no other choice, and was forced into it by the bad situation Neo Arcadia and humanity in general was in. In other words, make him do something he clearly hates. He's fighting for it, even though he knows it's wrong.

There are many ways to do it right, you just have to think. But as I said previously, we'll never know because LOL CAPCOM.

meh

Offline Krystal

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2011, 10:22:38 AM »
I don't know how much sense it would make.  Plus I'm pretty bored of X and Zero fighting each other.  Can't they just [tornado fang] already and get it over with?

^ Word.

On a less more serious note, I don't think it'll work out unless they have a damned good backstory for the sudden 360 180.
I haven't been able to think up of any excuse that's good enough that doesn't involve something silly like reprogramming or memory wiping or something. I mean, all throughout the X series, they worked hard to make X all LOVE AND PEACE! <3 And no matter what he'd always be all cute and trusting. So it'd probably take a lot of Deus Angst Machina to Break the Cutie.
And Deus Angst Machina doesn't usually make for a good plotline unless you're into that kinda stuffs.
Granted, if you did it well it could be interesting and thought provoking, but Nuuu I dun wannit =(! X has been through enough~~

But yeah, I think that if they implemented that, it'd probably be just played for shock value. Which they could've done with Copy X by leaving The Reveal at the very very end.

On second thoughts, they could have an awesome Crowning Moment of Heartwarming where X and Zero are finally reunited and Zero finally reminds X about all that he's fighting for an)ry

Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2011, 02:54:13 PM »
On second thoughts, they could have an awesome Crowning Moment of Heartwarming where X and Zero are finally reunited and Zero finally reminds X about all that he's fighting for an)ry
And then sex happens 8D

Offline Zan

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2011, 07:06:46 PM »
Quote
I think you're underestimating how much would have to be done to make X do that. That's some seriously deep stuff.

"That much" is what we would call a sheer impossibility. X is a hero, albeit a tragic one, that would always fight for everyone's sake. He does not take to bias; that is the entire foundation of his character.

Also, I stand by what I said earlier; review the entire ZERO-series, see how much of it relies on Cyber Elf X. The entire foundation of the series' greatest moments comes crumbling down without Zero's undying devotion toward X's cause.

So be it... But that's why we are the best partners... I'll do what you want... Rest for a while. I will handle it, you can count on me. I won't stop! When an enemy appears... I'll terminate it..

Quote
we'll never know because LOL CAPCOM.

The decision to replace X with Copy-X was Inti's, and Inti's alone. It was a well-thought out decision on their part.

Offline Acid

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2011, 08:40:55 PM »
I can only repeast myself, again:

I appreciate Copy-X existence since it prevented that real X got killed by Zero.

Offline Mirby

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2011, 09:57:44 PM »
I honestly think they did Copy X because of that. And so much of the series is also based on the copy part. If I'm not mistaken, aren't Galleons basically a simple mass-produced X copy? And in Zero 3, it wouldn't be as epic if it was still real X. The very fact they had Copy X Mark II shows that the copy mechanic works wonders for storyline. Especially with the personality of Mark II. I mean, I almost cried at the end of Zero 3 because of true X, but it was good. And all the better for it.

(click to show/hide)

Also... I don't think the final fight in Zero 1 would have been nearly as awesome in presentation nor dialogue if it was real X.
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Offline Blackhook

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Re: What if Mega Man X was the bad guy?
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2011, 10:10:12 PM »
Also..where would Zero get his saber from if there was no Cyber X? :D