Author Topic: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4  (Read 12137 times)

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Offline Flame

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2010, 01:39:44 AM »
Dunno. To me, her design screams "sheeeeee"

On Foxtar- His "humanoid" form is definitely a female image. And his human sprite, I could swear has breasts.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2010, 03:32:46 AM »
About the closest thing to "breasts" that Inticreates has done with MegaMan, anyway.  That sprite has easily the largest hip curves of both Zero and ZX series, as well.

"Your pants are on fire."

Offline Karai

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2010, 07:12:04 PM »
Z-knuckle? It's is my all time favorite weapon. Ripping enemies apart and using their carcass to destroy other enemies is so fun. I could play the whole game with it, without even using the Saber.

Offline Flame

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2010, 07:24:24 PM »
Ripping enemies apart and using their carcass to destroy other enemies is so fun.
You just now made the Z-Knuckle sound extremely awesome. Even more you gave me an image in my mind of Zero doing just that.

Props.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Blackhook

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2010, 07:30:37 PM »
In Zero's hands even a Squirt gun is a lethal weapon.
Zero 4 had it's awesome moments (Seriously, you meet all Einherjar on one screen!)

Offline Align

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2010, 08:09:47 PM »
Such a wonderful "Oh [parasitic bomb]!!" moment, that was.

Offline Flame

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2010, 08:27:29 PM »
In Zero's hands even a Squirt gun is a lethal weapon.

I LOVE how that's even possible during the fire mini mission. You can kill enemies by watering them. 8D

But then again, its not like the X series wasnt full of such moments... (Bubbles as a weapon? A water gun?)
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline MrBaryl

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2010, 09:15:17 PM »
In Zero's hands even a Squirt gun is a lethal weapon.

Z-knuckle? It's is my all time favorite weapon. Ripping enemies apart and using their carcass to destroy other enemies is so fun. I could play the whole game with it, without even using the Saber.

Surprise, Zero already had HANDZ!

Zero 4 had it's awesome moments (Seriously, you meet all Einherjar on one screen!)

I still don't understand how they imprisoned Hell the Giant, of course assuming he is a prisoner and not some kind of guard.

Offline Flame

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2010, 11:35:29 PM »
Surprise, Zero already had HANDZ!
He didnt have the ability to rip a weapon from the enemy's body though.

Quote
I still don't understand how they imprisoned Hell the Giant, of course assuming he is a prisoner and not some kind of guard.
THEY didnt. He was already there for a very long time. Didnt you read the character bios on the title screen..?

I mean, he recognized Zero in the tracks, didnt he?
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline MrBaryl

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2010, 11:52:44 PM »
That doesn't mean that he was built there. He could have been imprisoned.

Offline Treleus

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2012, 02:23:09 PM »
Z4's my favorite Zero game. Maybe not as strong as Z2, but definitely the most streamlined and enjoyable of the series.

The music sells it for me. They hit their stride with Z4's soundtrack. Also the giant bosses were awesome: Carnage Force 0 and Hell the Giant. Also the minotaur guy with his hoppity-hop feet.

I barely used the Z Knuckle. It was neat, but really, it's all about the buster and saber. Or just the saber. I didn't get that much mileage out of using every Tom, Dick, and Maverick's dippy weapon. Didn't get much mileage out of the parts system either, and I didn't miss the element chips.



Nothing Beats Z4 for me.



I'm Max Hot for it.



Got a throbbing Power Field for it.

Offline Da Dood

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2012, 03:44:42 PM »
I dunno if Z4 is my favorite, but it's not my least favorite (that would be Z1... still a good game).

I love the Z-Knuckle. It's probably not as fast as just slicing everything, and after Chain Rod and Recoil Rod, I guess we were a bit spoiled as far as awesome novel mobility... but I have a lot of fun stealing enemies' weapons (a nod to the original Mega Man concept) and doing stuff like pulling the first boss's cords out.

Music is great, I agree.

Offline Ladd Spencer

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2012, 07:41:29 PM »
Z Knuckle is garbage. That game was like vomit of a really delicious meal. You could kinda smell Zero 2 somewhere in there, but it had long since been covered in bile.

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Offline Align

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2012, 09:30:16 PM »
I didn't like Z4 as much as I liked Z3 but it was objectively a better game, I felt. Except for the Knuckle, and cyber-elf system.

Offline Ladd Spencer

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2012, 12:08:43 AM »
3 was great, but I preferred the first two over it. I like the leveling up a lot. Makes [parasitic bomb] hard as balls. Z4 felt empty emotionally. OK, Zero dies. And Ciel cries on a hill. It all felt so forced. Weil is back for some reason? Since when did they do that in Zero games? Each other had a new villain from the one prior who had bigger goals. Well, I don't really suppose Weil was a step up from Elpizo, but at least it was something. 4 is like 3 again but for no reason, and there's a guy with a gun on his arm, but even he felt lifeless. I can't even remember his name. All I can think of is Vent and Barrel, but neither of those is him.

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Offline Zan

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2012, 12:51:10 PM »
Quote
Weil is back for some reason? Since when did they do that in Zero games? Each other had a new villain from the one prior who had bigger goals.

You might realize you never defeated him in 3, and left him in charge of Neo Arcadia. It's not an episodic story; it's continuous.

Quote
4 is like 3 again but for no reason, and there's a guy with a gun on his arm, but even he felt lifeless. I can't even remember his name. All I can think of is Vent and Barrel, but neither of those is him.

Craft.

And I think you need to play the game again without such preconceptions. It seems that you did not understand its purpose in the overall narrative.

Please read the attached document for further elaboration on the story of Z3 and 4.


Offline Treleus

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2012, 02:53:25 PM »
I liked how you actually dealt with humans in Z4 other than Ciel. That's the first time humans are not silent in the background of a sidescrolling Mega Man game.

Craft resigned himself to fighting for Weil because he controlled the world's energy and resources, which presumably is concentrated at Neo Arcadia. He figured rebelling against him was a losing battle, and forcing everyone to stay in line with his dictatorship was the greater good. The idea of him being a dark horse on account of a moral dilemma is interesting, but not well executed when the guy he's working for is so obviously evil and unjust. I don't really understand what the character was supposed to be thinking when he decided to capitulate to a mad dictator, saying that "there are no heroes" and "one person can't change the world" even though history begs to [tornado fang]ing disagree! Weil is one guy, and he single-handedly turned the human utopia that was Neo Arcadia into a prison camp for everyone. This was after Zero, a lone warrior, broke through Neo Arcadia's fighting force and assassinated its leader.

Craft was an ignorant tool, but he clearly didn't have to be.

Offline Flame

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2012, 12:29:33 AM »
Z4 was good. They hit the high note with music and the skill system, although it felt somewhat less rewarding when you were guaranteed an EX skill just by playing the stage in a harder difficulty, and not by a nintendo hard ranking system.

Story was good, I liked how it followed Z3, and how it tied all the way back to the X series with the Colony Drop and Area Zero. I loved what they did with that.

Esperanto is still one of the best tracks in the series, and perfectly conveys the right mix of emotions for that stage.

That said, it didnt feel quite the same as the last 3. Felt smaller almost. Probably due to the lack of eternally present elements like the Shield Boomerang, the Big 3, and Neo Arcadia itself.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Ammygelion

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2012, 11:02:39 PM »
I'm typically not very fond of reviving threads, but I really had to add in my two cents to this.

Z4 is, for me, the high point of the Mega Man games. While I can't contest that Legends or Classic are inescapably wonderful series, Zero is, in my opinion, where Capcom (and I should give Inti due credit) finally integrated a great and emotionally charged story into their games. Granted, the X series had a pretty good storyline, it never really hit me in the feels like Z did, and always had this cheesy sort of "80's anime" feeling for me.

Zero 4 was initially the one I hated the most just for the fact that they changed the entire gameplay system on me. No more elemental chips. No more ranking-based EX skills, took out the two extra weapons and replaced them with the nigh useless Z-knuckle, everything felt out of place. But then I played through all the games again, and again, and I recently finished them once again on the DS. And now Z4 is my absolute favorite.

Just so you all know, I'll be speaking on my current opinions on them, not about my past ideas or experiences. Oh yeah, and there will be spoilers. (I'll mark them if anyone complains.)

Zero 1 felt like... Well, if I were to describe it in my own words, it felt like a toddler's first steps to me. It was like Inti was only just getting a hold of the universe. They didn't know what they were doing with this character or the story. They had a new series with a new gameplay system, and new characters that they were unfamiliar with besides the titular character. If you take an analytic view at Z1, you'd find the level design is bland at best and the music is hit-or-miss with essentially all the stages. They really stumbled through that game.

The second title however, is where they started getting ahold of what they were doing. They figured how what direction they were going to go with the series and I feel they put in more work to this game. The level design is top-notch. Definitely THE BEST in the Zero series. And the soundtrack was great. No more repetitive tracks. Plus, the new EX Skills and Armor Upgrades were icing on the cake. It was also the hardest in my opinion. (The bosses were [parasitic bomb] easy but those stages. Oh jeez those stages.) But that game is where they certainly nailed the gameplay of the series.

Z3 is where the series really kicks off in my opinion. Granted, it's the most forgettable about the series if you ask me. (I mean, gosh darn it they recycled the same resistance base from the previous title.) I also feel it lacked a bit of that "gritty guerilla edge" the first games had. (I mean I didn't feel the second game did either but it was still a little better as the resistance was still seemingly finding a good foothold in their new base). Instead this game felt more systematic, like you were a soldier being sent off from a well-establish military institution. But what really makes Z3 shine is that they emotionally charged the series. I mean, take a look at the environment and atmosphere for a moment. Some levels have a sense of tension to them, while some evoke a sense of regret. (I mean,
listen to this track. LISTEN TO IT.
) Not to mention the inner conflict brought up during Z-man's encounter with Omega.

But Z4. Gais. Z4. This game. This game is where everything hit a high point. Where Inti really perfected the gameplay and the story, as well as wrapped it up in one of the best climaxes I've ever seen in a video game. I mean, this game's ending. It was better than any Zelda, Tales, Half-Life, what-have-you game I have ever played. I mean, for one thing, granted, they took out the most creative weapon in the MM series (The shield boomerang) and I was upset about that, they really made up for it. The level design isn't near what we saw in Z2 or Z3, but it makes up for it by adding one thing I felt the series was lacking all this time. Puzzles! I actually wandered around for a time at some points wondering how to get to a certain point or how to unlock something. And the Z-Knuckle was a really creative way to branch out pathways and go about puzzles and minibosses. I mean, remember, in Noble Mandrago's stage, tearing out those vines? Sure, you can just whittle away with the saber, or you can rip them apart in chunks and speed on through. Not to mention pulling those enemies out of their roots before they can become a remote threat in the least. Or what about in Lunaedge's stage, having to, on reflex, grab that keycard and carry it along THROUGH THE WHOLE LEVEL, to get a sub tank?
Plus, they finally perfected the combat. The EX Skills were seamlessly integrated into combat and I pulled off some sick combos speedrunning a stage or two a few times. Plus the bosses were more creative than any of the past ones. There was always a pattern or system of movement to them, and you always had to react at a split second even after memorizing what they did and how they attacked. And even then, they were still a great threat. The Z-Knuckle was a little useless, granted, but it made for a few fun moments, plus the delicious irony of using a V. Fire against it's own kind. But anyways...
Also the music. Oh gawd the music. I am a metalhead personally so that department gets a thumbs up from me right there and then. I mean, I was enjoying rocking out to
Deep Blue
and
Celestial Gardens
(dem drums!) and
Queen of the Hurt
(This one somehow had an MMX feel for me), but some of the music really gave a deep sense of atmosphere, specifically tracks like
Sleeping Beast
, which really creeped me out, even at the rock interludes,
Cyber Space
, which evoked a really optimistic feel given the situation and how they had miraculously found a solution to their problem, and especially,
Ciel d'aube
"And on that day, we lost something that can't be replaced".
But speaking of atmosphere, look at the plot. Look at the characters. Zero's death in the end was foreshadowed by the utter hopelessness of the situation. I mean, with Copy X and his chokehold over the world, with Elpizo and his godlike power, with Omega and him being an exact flawless replica, Zero only made it with his life by a hair. It was obvious with the pure scale of Ragnorok's power that there had to be a sacrifice, and our hero wasn't willing to let anyone else die. Then again, he never called himself a hero. He was always just putting in self-sacrifice for the sake of others. For me, this was especially tragic, as Zero finally began showing the same signs of humanity he had back in the early X games, before Iris' death. Notice he started cracking some sarcastic jokes and making fun of Cocapetri? It's like he was finally getting over his past pains and regrets, and then in the end, he was lost before he could enjoy life. But he also said to Craft, they were reploids built for war, and nothing else.
And speaking of Craft, the situation with Neige, the refugees, and him. I mean, immediately, we returned to the guerilla warfare style of the first game, where we are in a small undeveloped base with minimal resources. Plus, the added tention of defending the refugees, which were a specific driving point in the game's narrative. In the past games, it was all about the struggle of the resistance. But this time, it showed a darker, less militaristic side to the series. The refugees, without a home, running from oppression. Untrained in combat and gripping to the last dregs of nature. Neige as their leader, a confident reporter who is shown to be very wise in the end. And the tension between her and Craft. Their sinful romantic involvement with each other, the drama of their walking their own paths, and ultimately, Craft's realization of his purpose and his inhuman obsession with rectifying his wrongs, yet with the wrong means and wrong end. Whereas Zero fought ultimately for his friends' goals, Craft fought to end what seemed to be the source of the evil, at any cost, even threatening to sacrifice hundreds or thousands of innocents in the process. (Someone clear me up, what was Neo Arcadia's population again?)
Not bad for a few E-Rated games amiritegais?

But let me wrap this up here since I'm getting a little tired. The ending. The climax of the final battle between Weil and Zero. I mean, first of all, allow me to say how [tornado fang]ing EPIC THAT BATTLE WAS. I MEAN GOD DAMN. THAT BATTLE. I MEAN, ON A TIMER, BURNING UP IN THE ATMOSPHERE, TWO MINUTES TO SAVE HUMANITY, AND THE BEST [tornado fang]ing AWESOME GODDAMN
FINAL BOSS MUSIC KNOWN TO VIDEO GAME [tornado fang]ing KIND.


*gasp**gasp*

S-Sorry 'bout that.  -u-'

Anyways, Zero's sacrifice in the end was truly a great resolution to a great series. The epilogue, with Ciel's sorrow over Zero's death, given her (this is how I read into it anyways) unrequited love for him and his great friendship with all his companions, and how much he gave away to protect humanity...
Well, let me sum it up like this.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero. I have always only fought for the people I believe in."
Well Zero, you really were a hero to humanity.





PHEW. I'm glad I got all that off my chest. Sorry for the whole damn retrospective, I mean that was LONG. I MAY have to spoiler tag that all...
Sorry RPM. I promise I won't get sentimental again.
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Offline Treleus

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2012, 11:38:00 PM »
Playing the games, I never connected with Zero because it seemed like he didn't exhibit any emotion at all. His expression never changed and there was too much talking and dialogue going back-and-forth for me to care. I guess I wasn't just that into it, but I can still agree that Z4 is the game that felt most good to me, or where I felt most invested into the story. It definitely had the strongest emotional content of the series because of Zero's sacrifice, but also because of who he was fighting for: not just Ciel and the reploids, but also for Neige and the humans. It was the interplay between these parties, and the one person fighting for them, that registered best with me from the Zero series. Weil and Kraft made great villains as well, even if the latter was really a dark horse.

Also, I'm disappointed you didn't mention
Max Heat
, easily the best stage tune in the game. I mean, goddamn. Trailer music wins.


Offline Ammygelion

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2012, 11:40:53 PM »
I actually skipped Max Heat on purpose since it was mentioned earlier on in the thread.

I agree Zero is a really hard character to connect with because of how emotionless he is. But making an effort to read into his backstory and why he's like that, it makes him that much better a character.
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Offline Zan

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2012, 12:10:51 AM »
Quote
while some evoke a sense of regret. (I mean, listen to this track. LISTEN TO IT.)

I prefer the original For Endless Fight.


Quote
(Someone clear me up, what was Neo Arcadia's population again?)

At the centre of Neo Arcadia, two million people instantaneously met their demise by Ragnarok's attack. It is also implicated that Neo Arcadia has literally thousands of districts. (Area Z-3079 was hit by Omega's missile.)

Offline Ammygelion

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2012, 01:20:58 AM »
Damn Zan. That's observant. That never clicked with me. So it's safe to say Neo Arcadia's population was somewhere up in the billions then?
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Offline Align

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2012, 02:09:11 PM »
Hum... can't believe this didn't occur to me before, but do you guys think For Endless Fight is meant to contrast with For Great Justice? A lot could be read from that...

Offline Treleus

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Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2012, 10:32:41 PM »
At the centre of Neo Arcadia, two million people instantaneously met their demise by Ragnarok's attack. It is also implicated that Neo Arcadia has literally thousands of districts. (Area Z-3079 was hit by Omega's missile.)

I missed that detail. I thought the bulk of them were evacuated beforehand or something.