Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

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Offline Satoryu

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Reply #75 on: October 22, 2010, 02:38:52 AM
Yeah you can.

While I'm here, I'll chime in that both MM7 and MMX6 are awesome games.


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Offline Acid

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Reply #76 on: October 22, 2010, 02:40:08 AM
I think I will now update my post and state that I loved every MM game I played so far. I did not hate a single one.



Offline Karasai♪

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Reply #77 on: October 22, 2010, 02:54:09 AM
All of the Megaman games are good.

Except Rockman and Forte 2



Offline MrBaryl

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Reply #78 on: October 22, 2010, 03:56:19 AM
All of the Megaman games are good.

Except Rockman and Forte 2

If it wasn't Quint X and or the fact that the jackhammer is in the game, R-shadow would have been a decent enemie.
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Offline Gotham Ranger

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Reply #79 on: October 22, 2010, 09:56:10 AM
I think I will now update my post and state that I loved every MM game I played so far. I did not hate a single one.
Same.

Except Rockman & Forte 2.

And maybe X6.



Offline Karasai♪

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Reply #80 on: October 22, 2010, 02:06:56 PM
I think Acid was talking about the classic games

I didnt like command mission. the X series needed to end at X8



Offline Flame

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Reply #81 on: October 22, 2010, 03:02:36 PM
Im still waiting for the impossible Command Mission 2. ;__;

I REALLy like how they handled an X RPG. I think they did a great job.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Acid

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Reply #82 on: October 22, 2010, 04:25:32 PM
I think Acid was talking about the classic games

No. MM games in general.

I loved the ones I played.



Offline Karasai♪

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Reply #83 on: October 22, 2010, 06:05:39 PM
No. MM games in general.

I loved the ones I played.

oh



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #84 on: October 22, 2010, 06:43:10 PM
Overall, I feel ZX is entirely free to take on any number of characters that are not Vent/Aile Aile as the main. As long as there is a purpose to the "ZX" name in the end.
My point: I do not consider one A-Trans among 12 others to be adequate purpose.

During Advent, Vent/Aile are still MegaMan Model ZX.  And as I already stated earlier, I am aware that any other Chosen One *COULD* assume that title, but the fact remains that nobody else actually did.

X *could* jump onto the field in the beginning of X7.  He *didn't*.  The issue is what is, not what may be.

Nostalgiafags that don't like any of the new gameplay elements or changes, and prefer the same ol' MM2-style crap.

Edit: Same goes for 7
I don't even understand that much.  I get it for 7, I get it for MM&B.  But to me, 8 is a lot closer to the "nostalgic trifecta" of 1-3 than most other titles, even certain NES-styled ones (barring the obvious physics and character/screen size ratio differences).  Sans Duo, the use of post-MM3 characters is kept to a minimum.  There are no more Adapters, the "new" power-ups are both optional and neatly segregated, Rush returns to the role of main-yet-unmerged support unit, his support is rewarded via combat prizes rather than fetch-quests, and you have fully mobile Rush Jet for the first time since 3.

Plus, the Arrow Shot kinda lends that Contra Spread Gun charm as well. 8)

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Offline Acid

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Reply #85 on: October 22, 2010, 06:49:43 PM
Nothing will ever beat the arrow from MM5.



Offline Blackhook

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Reply #86 on: October 22, 2010, 06:55:43 PM
The thing was more useful in Darkwing duck :D.
I don't hate any game. The fact that I don't like X5, X6 RnF 2 and World 2 doesn't mean that I hate them.


Offline Hypershell

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Reply #87 on: October 22, 2010, 06:57:39 PM
A wise man, you are. :cookie:

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Offline Zan

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Reply #88 on: October 22, 2010, 07:26:28 PM
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My point: I do not consider one A-Trans among 12 others to be adequate purpose.

During Advent, Vent/Aile are still MegaMan Model ZX.  And as I already stated earlier, I am aware that any other Chosen One *COULD* assume that title, but the fact remains that nobody else actually did.

X *could* jump onto the field in the beginning of X7.  He *didn't*.  The issue is what is, not what may be.

Except ZXA is still not a numbered title. It is simply another game in the series that that continues the story. This is a crucial point; if not numbered, the game's title does not carry all the expectations of its predecessor and thus can be solely in reference to which "series" it falls under, and not to the protagonist the series is named after.

From what I can see, by your logic, you can't make someone else the protagonist of a single arc just because someone else's name is in the title. This is simply not true. A short deviation is entirely justifiable as long as the actual main character returns to the spotlight when the arc is over.

ZXA to me, is a set up game, just like Rockman Zero 2 was. If Rockman Model ZX returns as the main protagonist in ZX2, then what's the problem? The titular gameplay was never removed and the story has greatly benefited from taking a less obvious course.

All in all, I'd much prefer ZXA's change of protagonist over the X-series'; they were open about the change, they never told us otherwise. Meanwhile the X-series stealthily tried to sneak in both Axl and Zero, whilst still keeping up the charade that X was supposed to be the main character.



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #89 on: October 22, 2010, 11:13:06 PM
Except ZXA is still not a numbered title.
Irrelevant, it is still the ZX series.

How long do you think the RPM community is going to put up with us repeating ourselves?

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This is a crucial point; if not numbered, the game's title does not carry all the expectations of its predecessor and thus can be solely in reference to which "series" it falls under, and not to the protagonist the series is named after.
That is an exceptionally selective bit of logic which could *EASILY* be turned around.  You claim forgoing numbered sequels justifies forsaking the protagonists so long as it otherwise retains series staples.  MegaMan X Command Mission did the complete opposite.

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From what I can see, by your logic, you can't make someone else the protagonist of a single arc just because someone else's name is in the title.  This is simply not true. A short deviation is entirely justifiable as long as the actual main character returns to the spotlight when the arc is over.
NEVER did I say that.  Please refrain from putting words in my mouth in the future.

You failed to take heed of the difference in how we perceive Advent.  I've already told you quite a while ago that I see no relevance in the game's title lacking a number, and just because you can explain your rationale for believing otherwise to us, does not mean that I agree with it.  You do nobody any favors by arguing under such an assumption.

ZX Advent is not a "short deviation".  It is literally half the series at this point, as it has been for the last 3 years.  Your entire argument is based on the premise that Advent is a side game, but that distinction cannot be made when the series has no numbered sequels to distinguish Advent from in the first place.  Your position is based solely on a hypothetical scenario.

There is no game titled ZX2.  There are no numbered ZX sequels, at all.  The ONLY reason ZXA is not ZX2 is IF a future title proclaims to be ZX2.  Whether or not that will actually happen is not a given.  (Would you fault someone for referring to Armored Core: Project Phantasma and Armored Core: Master of Arena as direct sequels before Armored Core 2 had ever been announced?)

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All in all, I'd much prefer ZXA's change of protagonist over the X-series'; they were open about the change, they never told us otherwise. Meanwhile the X-series stealthily tried to sneak in both Axl and Zero, whilst still keeping up the charade that X was supposed to be the main character.
It's called a "costar".  And if Axl and Zero appear more interesting it's because they have more of a story to tell.  Even in those X-series games which feature no other playable characters, we don't really learn much about X.  Hell, it'd be fairly easy to argue that we've received greater insight into X's character from those games which featured multiple player characters.

I will not deny that X4 and X7 both shafted X in terms of cutscene time.  However, he remains both playable and unavoidable in every X-series title.

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Offline Zan

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Reply #90 on: October 22, 2010, 11:57:18 PM
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That is an exceptionally selective bit of logic which could *EASILY* be turned around.  You claim forgoing numbered sequels justifies forsaking the protagonists so long as it otherwise retains series staples.  MegaMan X Command Mission did the complete opposite.

I don't mind if you turn it around, because we do not fault XCM for being a different genre. So why fault Advent for changing its protagonists?

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Irrelevant, it is still the ZX series.

The setting of Command Mission is still RockmanX, the setting of Advent is still RockmanZX. Despite genre and protagonist differences. Why must Capcom avoid marketing the ZX name with Advent when it's so obviously part of that series in both setting and gameplay? If anything, the one time they chose not to carry the series name with a new protagonist, they really should have for marketing reasons.

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ZX Advent is not a "short deviation".  It is literally half the series at this point, as it has been for the last 3 years.  Your entire argument is based on the premise that Advent is a side game, but that distinction cannot be made when the series has no numbered sequels to distinguish Advent from in the first place.  Your position is based solely on a hypothetical scenario.

ZXA had no choice but to devote the entire game to the new protagonists for the sake of both plotline and gameplay. That no sequel as of yet exists is no fault of ZXA. With the continuation of the series' story having been conceptualized and revealed to us, Advent is but one step in a greater plan; a plan we cannot begin to grasp. Saying that ZXA is half the series is like saying the DASH series ended with a cliffhanger that will never be resolved. You should fault neither until the series is truly over; time will show if this deviation was truly necessary. We're getting DASH3, so anything is possible nowadays, even ZX2, 3 or whatever.

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And if Axl and Zero appear more interesting it's because they have more of a story to tell.  Even in those X-series games which feature no other playable characters, we don't really learn much about X.  Hell, it'd be fairly easy to argue that we've received greater insight into X's character from those games which featured multiple player characters.

It is not that X does not have more of a story to tell, it is simply that they chose no to tell it. Both Irregular Hunter X and Rockman Zero confirm this. Shifting the focus to Axl and Zero whilst shafting X was their conscious choice.

Not that that is necessarily bad, I don't even fault X7 for it, considering that it was needed for the plot. But marketing as a direct sequel to X6 was just bad; they really should have been more open and clear about these kind of deviations.



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #91 on: October 23, 2010, 05:05:52 AM
I don't mind if you turn it around, because we do not fault XCM for being a different genre. So why fault Advent for changing its protagonists?
Yes, but XCM, despite not being a numbered sequel, still retains the same protagonists.  One could arguably say that it does a better job of highlighting the title character than the main series.

My point is that you were implying a rather rigid standard as to naming trends where none exists.

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ZXA had no choice but to devote the entire game to the new protagonists for the sake of both plotline and gameplay.

Programming minor stage tweaks based on character selection is a fairly simple and well-established task in gaming.  And quite frankly I think a "what-if" scenario of MegaMan Model ZX challenging Albert would be a highly valuable one; more so than Vile in MHX, and certainly more so than the Navigators in X8.

See, Advent doesn't just shaft Vent/Aile in gameplay, it de-values them by MegaMan Model A defeating/A-Transing them and implying MegaMan Model A as being the sole worthy challenger to Albert.  In no way am I against the focus on Grey/Ashe, they add plenty to the story.  I simply feel that failure to provide Vent/Aile as even an unlockable option was an inexcusable mistake.

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That no sequel as of yet exists is no fault of ZXA.
"Fault" is irrelevant.  I am not assigning blame, I am citing your use of situations that may or may not exist as the sole basis of your views, which is simply flawed logic.  You cannot know that the next ZX game will or will not be titled, much less treated as, ZX3, or that the next Vent/Aile game will or will not be a numbered sequel, until it actually happens.

Just because the second game in a series is not numbered in its title, in no way whatsoever does that mean the third game will not be numbered 3 in its title (see Toejam & Earl 3).

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It is not that X does not have more of a story to tell, it is simply that they chose no to tell it. Both Irregular Hunter X and Rockman Zero confirm this. Shifting the focus to Axl and Zero whilst shafting X was their conscious choice.
Interesting choices.  MHX is a remake of the original, Zero is a new series with a century or two of backstory to cover.

See the connection?  They're both beginnings.  Little is known of X, lots of out-of-game setup has been going on, so yes, there is PLENTY to tell.  But if we're at the 4th or 7th entry of a series respectively, the mere fact that the pre-existing protagonist is well established says that naturally there is more to say about the new one.  By no means does it have to stay that way as the series continues; I for one think X got far more significant character development in XCM than Axl or Zero.  Same for X6.

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Not that that is necessarily bad, I don't even fault X7 for it, considering that it was needed for the plot. But marketing as a direct sequel to X6 was just bad; they really should have been more open and clear about these kind of deviations.
From the very first trailer they were clear that the game was 3D, in and of itself a severe deviation.  As for X, I really consider that (in gameplay) to be inconsequential.  He is unavoidable (which puts him in a better boat than Zero in X6), and his power more than justifies his delayed entry.  It's rare to see X as the high-attack character when compared to Zero.  My only concern as a matter of focus in X7 is why X got so little cutscene time, but quite frankly X's general character in the game is far more troubling than any cutscene absence could ever be.

Even numbered sequels can heavily deviate from their predecessors (Zelda 2, Metroid 4).  It's considered risky, yes, but it's by no means unheard of.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 06:34:19 PM by Hypershell »

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Offline Mr. E

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Reply #92 on: October 24, 2010, 11:15:06 AM
I don't hate the game, but...

Sentsuizan (on the pipes) =  ...  owob

Shoenzan is not good as Ryuenjin  -_-

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Offline MrBaryl

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Reply #93 on: October 27, 2010, 06:34:26 AM
Overpowered attack by overpowered Zero is overpowered.

Aww..Dude I remember beating the crap out of sigma over and over just to listen I.D.E.A.


Offline Flame

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Reply #94 on: October 27, 2010, 07:08:37 AM
I.D.E.A. Is catchy.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #95 on: August 04, 2011, 05:08:08 AM
The way I see it, X6 just didn't meet expectations. I remember when X5 came out; for us RMX fans, it was a real titanic super-game, continuing the story after a long hiatus and introducing lots of great new elements. And when X6 was announced, we expected nothing short of awesomeness.

What we got was a mediocre plot, some of the worst translation seen in a video game, hair-pullingly difficult levels with push-over bosses, a cop-out Zero resurrection, and my favorite complaint; most disappointing Armor EVER. X6 had a very clear bar to jump over; it just kinda tripped at the start line.

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Offline Flame

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Reply #96 on: August 04, 2011, 07:16:25 AM
The plot was far from mediocre- and Gate is probably one of the best characters in the series, and was incredibly fleshed out.

Blade certainly cant top Falcon;s free flight, but for the game, Mach Dash works just fine. Its helpful in Gate's stages. Especially since you can just sit there in midair if you need to calculate your move a bit more.

Shadow armor is definitely better than Gaea however. For one, it isnt big bulky and slow. Second, while it is just as short ranged as Gaea was, it's regular shots have normal range (although as spread shots). It also lets you high jump, stick to the roof, and fire downwards from it.

X5 is not without it's own problems... Mainly the power up distribution, which forced you to evenly distribute certain power ups between X and Zero.

X6 however, lets you fully power one character. The chip system in X6 is also improved from X5, making the chips equip to the character, not the armor, and increasing the max quantity. Although it now works by rank determining how many you can equip.

Zero's resurrection isnt as cheap as you think, when you take into consideration what the game actually tells you about it. (Zero admits to Light that he does not know who repaired him, and Isoc claims to have seen Zero alive)

It certainly is no cheaper than Zero's death by boss explosion in X5 REGARDLESS of his actual proximity to the explosion.

It was also the first X game to give us an antagonist that WASN'T Sigma pulling the strings.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline megaman24681012

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Reply #97 on: August 04, 2011, 07:29:47 AM
Watch The Great Clement's LP of the game, you'll find out why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysngFQshy4I&feature=channel_video_title


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Reply #98 on: August 05, 2011, 12:42:07 AM
funny... i never used the chips in x5 or x6, well in x6 a friend of me teach me the how to get the ultimate armor...even so the game was relentless
maybe as a game was fun, but if you care aobut the history, the game is far from history..... -_-


Offline Align

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Reply #99 on: August 05, 2011, 10:09:07 AM
Zero's resurrection isnt as cheap as you think, when you take into consideration what the game actually tells you about it. (Zero admits to Light that he does not know who repaired him, and Isoc claims to have seen Zero alive)
Of course, both those bits of dialogue are missable...