Author Topic: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.  (Read 14218 times)

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Offline Turian

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Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« on: June 14, 2010, 12:15:44 PM »
Was Ciel the first commander? And is Prairie really Alouette? If so, how could Ciel possibly be the first commander? Wasn't she a human?

Offline Dr. Wily II

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2010, 12:42:39 PM »
And why can't Ciel be First Commander if she's human?
Also, these cutscenes:

The First Commander suspiciously looks like Ciel, the hair, expecially the coat.

As for Prairie, her dialogue mentioned that she has witnessed the fall of Ragnarok, and her plushie looks suspiciously like the one that Alouette always holds. Also, Prairie mentioned that the plushie is a gift from the First Commander, and Alouette's plushie was a gift from Ciel.
Another clue is in Prairie's room. Lots of cyber-elf plushies, as well as some photos of Zero and Ciel in the background. Also, Ciel's coat (the one from Zero 3) is seen hanging on the clothes rack.

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Offline Asena

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2010, 03:17:03 PM »
And why can't Ciel be First Commander if she's human?

As for Prairie, her dialogue mentioned that she has witnessed the fall of Ragnarok,

Prairie, supposedly Alouette states she is some 100 years old. Ciel couldn't last for all that time, and her disappearance happened a few years before ZX.

Though story-wise, these two can ONLY be Alouette and Ciel.

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2010, 03:43:22 PM »
Ciel couldn't last for all that time, and her disappearance happened a few years before ZX.
Well, Ciel's true time in disppearing is still up for debate, although the issue of the Sage Trinity also comes in.
Albert said he made Model W, and therefore created PnP.
The First Commander created the other Biometals from Model W.
The Trinity's policy of humans gaining machine bodies, while reploids gained human mortality.
Ciel could have gained a machine body, and lived longer.

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Offline Turian

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2010, 06:43:10 PM »
This is true. I'll accept this for now. Thanks for your input doc!

Offline Zan

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2010, 07:05:40 PM »
Quote
Wasn't she a human?

Yes, and considering the First Commander was also a human, what's the problem? Keep in mind that the Machine Bodies given to humans can allow them to live for centuries.

Quote
Prairie, supposedly Alouette states she is some 100 years old. Ciel couldn't last for all that time, and her disappearance happened a few years before ZX.

Prairie stated she was a centuries old Repliroid. This is the same time frame as when the Hunters discovered the Ice Dart Mechaniloid. However, the Hunters' Guild was supposedly founded several centuries after the war as a direct result of Serpent's digging success in finding the Livemetals, and so that directly relates to the incident in which he claimed Model V. Thus; the First Commander disappeared centuries ago, but also centuries after the war.

Of course, how much time that is from the ZERO-series remains to be seen, as the gap is never explicitly said ingame and supposedly two hundred years. The implication is apparently that First Commander's disappearance is somewhere in the middle of this.


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Offline Turian

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2010, 07:11:27 PM »
AH. That makes even more sense.

Offline Gaia

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2010, 07:50:04 PM »
Even though Prairie said the first commander "dissapeared" during that time frame, Slither Inc. was founded (I belive a few years after the dissapearance). And there was a cutscene if I belive of Serpent going rouge after he came in contact with the Biometal W in the first ZX. Machine Bodies are another story, it's how the hunter Ashe was able to survive a long fall, whilist without it her leg bones would've been crushed by the pressure and most likely blown off the roof of the airship she landed on by the strong wind being produced by fast-moving ships.
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So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

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Offline Dr. Wily II

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2010, 08:14:08 PM »
There was never any evidence that the First Commander had anything to do with Slither Inc.
That was all Serpent, and yes, that's after he came into contact with Model W.

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Offline Gaia

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2010, 08:44:26 PM »
Huh, that's what my suspicion was. I was thinking that Slither Inc flourished after Serpent defected from the Guardians to feed Model W.  8U
Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

It got really messy to find my sprite and comic topic, so it's in my sig.

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2010, 09:10:05 PM »
It's more like Slither Inc. was founded only after Serpent came into contact with Model W.

Zan, is that any evidence for this?

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Offline Zan

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2010, 11:00:46 PM »
I don't think you can state when Serpent Company was founded. He could have easily joined Guardian even though he already was the president of a company. In fact, they could have worked together to distribute System CIEL.

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2010, 01:21:08 AM »
In fact, they could have worked together to distribute System CIEL.
You know, that makes a remarkable amount of sense, given the whole energy crisis talk in the first game.

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Offline Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2010, 04:27:51 AM »
You know, that makes a remarkable amount of sense, given the whole energy crisis talk in the first game.
*sign*
I wonder why the population has still to suffer from that stupid energy crisis, if the solution is already for ca. 200 years at hand?
Oh, I know it is all caused by Albert's Xanatos Gamble.

Offline Sakura Leic

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2010, 04:42:58 AM »
Oh, I know it is all caused by Albert's Xanatos Gamble.
...What?

Offline Turian

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2010, 06:07:47 AM »
I just wanted to take a moment and tell you guys I really appreciate all of the studying and hard work you have done to make sense outta these games. I COULD do it myself but that would require lots of source books and knowledge of Japanese. So just to make this clear: THANK YOU!  owob

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2010, 07:37:53 AM »
I don't think you can state when Serpent Company was founded. He could have easily joined Guardian even though he already was the president of a company. In fact, they could have worked together to distribute System CIEL.
I see... That does make sense too.
Thanks for the clear-up Zan.

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Offline Thanatos-Zero

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« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 10:51:23 AM by Nyasiliciously Frankwurst »

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2010, 12:15:32 AM »
The shpiel with Albert is that the Game of Destiny, no matter the outcome, spreads enough despair to awaken Model W.  Straightforward enough, I'd say.  The only way you get a Roulette out of that is if you go into Grey and Model A as Albert's backups, but that part of the plan blew up in Albert's face anyway, since neither were necessary and his own backup surpassed him.

I still really wish there was a Vent/Aile mode to that game.

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Offline Robert Oakes

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2010, 11:54:23 PM »
May as well throw this in here in case someone hasn't seen it yet.



Scanned from the ZX Gigamix case.

Offline Gaia

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2010, 12:30:55 AM »
....*runs off with that scan*....

In the whole Albert shtik, he always planned a backup body, if he were to be defeated, he would still be around, however.. since that plan flew out the window (he forgot to make ANOTHER backup body if Grey was ever awakened, whoops), his plan to revive model W and crown himself king (that failed miserably, just like Serpent's plan, albiet similar) is pretty much in the hands of the next guy who finds that devilous biometal, it has a mind of it's own.
Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

It got really messy to find my sprite and comic topic, so it's in my sig.

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2010, 01:11:15 AM »
May as well throw this in here in case someone hasn't seen it yet.



Scanned from the ZX Gigamix case.
Is that supposed to be Prarie?

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2010, 03:45:21 AM »
It is.  One of the Gigamix drama tracks has Aile and Prairie going shopping after Aile comes back from a battle with PnP.  Prairie was scoping out that dress.

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2010, 09:55:30 PM »
It is.  One of the Gigamix drama tracks has Aile and Prairie going shopping after Aile comes back from a battle with PnP.  Prairie was scoping out that dress.

Hm, I think she looks a bit younger there than in the actual game.



Offline Robert Oakes

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Re: Is Ciel the first commander? And other related questions.
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2010, 11:41:38 PM »
Hypershell is correct, the track in question is "Girls Bravo". The album also included guest artwork from Hitoshi Ariga portraying the events of the track.