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Offline Rin

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DC Animated Universe Thread
« on: February 09, 2010, 03:44:17 PM »
I've been meaning to make a thread about this, since long past. I would just always forget about it.

In here we discuss this awesome piece of AMERIKKAN animation. Safe to say, that it's my favorite DCAU cartoon, after which comes Batman TAS and Batman Beyond. Altough, I've been watching episodes mostly at random(as in, choosing the episodes that interest me the most), and not all have been seen yet, I can really say that... I'm sad it has been cancelled.

Batman, who is my favorite hero(at least in DCAU), is awesome in this. Altough my e-pal said, that he smiles too much... but I think it's all okay. Since he kicks ass.

If you haven't watched it yet, GO DO IT RIGHT NOW! Seriously.

Also, I'm kind of tired... so the post might be a bit chaotic. I dunno.

JUSTICE LEAGUE & JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED THREAD!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 06:24:03 AM by Protoman Blues »

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2010, 04:04:07 PM »
One thing I remember fondly was Lex Luthor and his league of villians to counter the Justice League and rebuilt Brainiac.

I'm watching you all. Always watching.

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2010, 04:37:28 PM »
I remember how I used to buy the old Justice League comicbooks that managed to make it over here to Germany, back in the late 90s I believe. What reason did I buy them for? Because Batman was in there. That's how I got into the whole setting of superheroes getting together and become a team to counter larger threats that one hero alone would not have been able to handle.

And this is sort of where it all goes wrong in my opinion and that's what genuinely turned me away from the animated Justice League. A lot of these episodes are really cheesy if not downright terrible. You know, alien invasions, intergalactic Gods trying to destroy Earth and all that stands in their way is a team of superpowered costumed heroes, it sort of gets old really fast. Not to mention that you'd eventually have to ask yourself "Don't these guys have anything to do in their respective crime-infested cities?"

I remember how I liked those few team-up episodes in the Superman TAS and New Batman Adventures where characters from both shows would cross over. Supergirl would show up in NBA to team up with Batgirl to take down Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn and Livewire, while Batman would come to Metropolis to deal with Joker who teamed up with Lex Luthor to take down Superman etc, as well as Superman having to pose as Batman because the real one went missing. It was nuts, but it was fun. Justice League however, is too much of that.

I don't really know how to describe my gripes with JL/U, but it simply did not really feel right to me. The first series was at least somewhat limited in terms of which characters would appear. You had your original seven members of the Justice League, except for the fact that they threw the "quota black guy" in there in form of John Stewart as the Green Lantern despite the fact that a Green Lantern had already been introduced in the Superman TAS (Kyle Rayner stealing Hal Jordan's origin story). Not to mention that Aquaman is nowhere to be seen except like 2 appearances in Unlimited, getting his spot stolen by Hawkgirl. But then in Unlimited, you've got dozens and dozens of heroes, lots of which I did not even know existed, with cameos all other the place. Sure, there were a few times when I really liked that the spotlight was on heroes other than the main seven, the Huntress/Question episodes in particular were awesome.

Then again, there were really, really stupid episodes. To me, the most ridiculous story in Justice League ever was "The Once and Future Thing". MAJOR [tornado fang]ing sequence breaking all over the place. I mean, they go into the future, Batman meets both his sucessor Terry McGuiness AND his older self and it doesn't even phaze him. How's that supposed to fit with Batman Beyond I'd like to ask. Likewise, that episode were Batman was forced to sing "I'm so blue" on a stage. How can people do that to this kind of character? This isn't The Brave and the Bold you know.

Another thing was the redesigns of the characters. My reaction to the revamp from Batman TAS to New Batman Adventures varied between Yay and Nay (I loved the new design for Batman with just black and gray and hated the lipless Joker), but JL's designs really bugged me. Batman in particular, who seemed to be a fusion of all previous Batman cartoon incarnations. It was basically the same costume design as in NBA with Batman TAS' color scheme and Batman Beyond's elongated cowl-ears. As well as increasing the character's overall muscular structure. It looked terrible in my opinion. I also did not like Huntress' design, but apparently as the show was made, that was her current design in the comics whilst I knew her for wearing that fullbody suit with the cross around her neck from the 90s (The Plague etc, you know, when Azrael was still alive).

Justice League/Unlimited has both good and bad points, but as things are for me, DC never really managed to do something really awesome again after Batman TAS, and I'm saying that with my nostalgia glasses put off.



Offline Rin

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 05:01:48 PM »
Hmm.
I can understand your point of view, and I accept it. However, I will NOT be silent about one thing.

I prefer this design of Batman, from all his previous ones. I just like it... dunno why. It sits well with me.

Also, events from that "Once and Future Thing" episode... they never happened. Batman did something to that timetraveling guy's belt and... poof. He's trapped in a time loop. While all the events that happened were erased... only Batman and Lantern remember.

Beside those two things, there's nothing to argue. You stated your point rather well and gave good reasons for your dislike.

Offline Flame

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 08:00:41 PM »
JLU Batman's ears are too long. Theyre almost longer than Terry's own. 8U

which reminds me- TIM! BATMAN BEYOND JLU!
Seriously. That one time they showed the future JLU in BB and then in JLU itself, was great. I wouldnt mind giving the future JLU its own series or at least a small gig with a few episodes.

"Wow. Batman Playing good cop?" - "Everything's relevant."
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2010, 08:32:54 PM »
As RPM's foremost DC Comics expert, at least I think I know more DC than anyone in here being that I've read DC Comics all my life, Justice League & JLU were just another part in the utmost excellence that was the DCAU.  Like a lot of fans, I was upset that they used John Stewart over Kyle Rayner, but as I watched the show I grew to really like how they handled his character.  To me, that's what made the show so good: the characters.  For example, I'm the hugest fan of The Flash, as he has my favorite superpower, which is Super Speed.  The Justice League Flash is the greatest incarnation of the character in all of DC, from the comics to the 90's TV show.  Superman & Batman are pretty much Superman & Batman.  My only complaint is that GL did not use enough constructs, and instead was way too beam-y.  But that never took away from my overall enjoyment of the show.

I'll be the first to admit that the first season of Justice League was one of the weakest seasons in all of the DCAU.  The characterization was there somewhat, but the stories somewhat lacked the quality of their previous shows.  If you watched their previous shows, you know that they could've done better...which they did in the Second Season.  Whereas the first season of JL is one of the weakest, the second season of JL is easily one of the best seasons of animation and story the DCAU, and the comic cartoon genre, has to offer.  Here is the season where the characters truly began to shine, and the stories were top notch.  From the first 2-parter of the second season, Twilight, you can already see the massive change in story telling.  Yeah, JL has some episodes that were better than others without question, but that's true of all the DCAU series.  You have your "Almost Got 'Im" in every series and you have your "Prophecy of Doom" as well. 

Justice League Unlimited is simply pure DC fan-service, done with massive creativity as well as respect for the characters themselves.  The changes to some characters, like The Question, are just simply brilliant.  They also respected their fans enough to give them a proper sequel to the short lived Batman Beyond series, which was done so very well.  The episode before that, with The Flash showing what he can really do just perfectly illustrates why super speed is my favorite super power.  The final episode just has such a brilliant scene between Superman & Darkseid that I sometimes just watch it to watch it.  To me, it's honestly a shame that more of these aren't being made, for as much as I do like DC's Animated movies, they are not as good as their TV Cartoons.  I only wish Marvel Comics could do something as epic as the DCAU, cause their cartoons are nothing compared to these.  The Spectacular Spider-Man is definitely a step in the right direction though.

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2010, 08:39:04 PM »
They also respected their fans enough to give them a proper sequel to the short lived Batman Beyond series, which was done so very well.

Don't forget Static Shock was included in the same episode, by far, I thought it was good too.
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Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2010, 09:15:59 PM »
Don't forget Static Shock was included in the same episode, by far, I thought it was good too.

You're thinking of a different episode.  I'm talking about Epilogue, in which we see a grown up Terry.

Offline Rin

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2010, 12:17:13 AM »
Yayz, I had hoped PB would finally stop by.

Yeah, I loved Epilogue. Altough, I had problems with digesting the fact, that Terry had Bruce's DNA in himself.

Anyway, PB has encouraged me to watch more of this.

See ya later, folks.

Offline Flame

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2010, 01:13:55 AM »

Yeah, I loved Epilogue. Altough, I had problems with digesting the fact, that Terry had Bruce's DNA in himself.
As if the watchers hadnt figured it out already.
When they finally went all Muary and "Bruce... IS THE FATHER!" It... Honestly was not surprising at all. Its one of those things that was like, "Huh, no wonder..."

But yeah. Epilogue. I tend to think that the really old Wayne was a bit inspired by Bruce Timm's original old Bruce idea, which was, well, older bald, and a mess. XD

Epilogue was a great end to the Batman Beyond series, and the DCAU. And you really cant beat that kickass end.



Am I the only one who gets goosebumps when I watch this?
It's funny since not once did Terry ever get the Batman theme, and when I saw this, I was like, HELL yeah! Terry has inherited the Batman theme. He finally is Batman proper.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: Justice League/Unlimited Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2010, 10:23:46 PM »
Yeah. That moment was awesome. : D

Also, I've just watched Justice League - Crisis on Two Earths. I will give you now, some kind of review.

Watch out for spoilers!

(click to show/hide)

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2010, 06:33:54 AM »
In Brightest Day everyone!  I've decided to give a Black Ring to this topic, as well as rename it into our DCAU Thread.  That way, you can feel free to talk about not just JL/JLU, but all the DCAU. Heh, now that Static is officially in the DCU now, feel free for some Static Shock talk too.

Anyway, the reason why I revamped this topic is cause apparently, they are making a Green Lantern animated series!  There's no details on the series yet, so my excitement is down to a minimum, even though this or a Flash animated series are a PB dream come true.  Most likely though, this will tie into the GL movie coming out next year, but who knows.  What I'm most curious about is who will be the Guardian of this Animated Universe.  Will it be Bruce Timm & Paul Dini, creators of the series we all know and love.  Perhaps Geoff Johns will have the willpower.  We shall see.

Offline Flame

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2010, 06:50:00 AM »
Bruce Timm is involved or it isnt too good.

I stand by my argument that Timm should be the ONLY person allowed near the DCAU, EVER.

he just has such a magic touch with it.

Also, [tornado fang] yeah Static shock. I miss that show. He was Real cool. I mean come on. for the first season he pretty much flew on manhole and trash can lids. Plus, It tied in with pretty much ALL the DCAU series that existed at the time. Superman, (with a  toyman episode, that continued from an older Superman one) Batman a few times, Batman BEYOND as well, and hell, even the Justice league. (later on though)
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2010, 11:49:14 AM »
I admit that I've never watched Static Shock.
What is it about? It seems good from what you guys are talking about.

Green Lantern series? Well... it seems like an obvious move, with all the attention Lanterns got with Blackest Night/Brightest Day.

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2010, 04:29:53 PM »
I'm quite interested in this new Green Lantern series. We'll see if it's any good soon.

Now, will it actually be inserted within the DCU? My guess is no. Hal Jordan doesn't fit in the DCU as we know, and DCU stories are pretty much over, since Crisis On Two Earths was adamant on distancing itself from the main series. Now, how will the actual GL series be? I do hope Geoff Johns has a hand in it, and that it crosses over with other heroes. As long as it does the right stuff, it's fine. Just hope we don't have to sit through yet another origin arc. Hal Jordan's been a rookie far too many times.

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2010, 07:18:29 PM »
We'll most likely get an origin arc, unless it ties into the movie in someway.

However, I'd love if they would include all the other Corps.  Animated Larfleeze would be [tornado fang]ing awesome.

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2010, 07:45:21 PM »
We'll most likely get an origin arc, unless it ties into the movie in someway.

However, I'd love if they would include all the other Corps.  Animated Larfleeze would be [tornado fang]ing awesome.
If we have an origin, they'd have to move forward in an incredible way. They would have to include or dodge Sinestro's betrayal of the Corps (maybe handled in a First Flight manner, together with some bro moments with Jordan like in Secret Origin), Hal's normal adventures and joining the JLA/interactions with Barry and Ollie/relationship with Carol, the Parallax thingamagigger, the other earth Lanterns, the Rebirth event, the Sinestro Corps War, and a ton of other stuff. Since Larfleeze and the other lantern types directly concern a ton of other story issues, they would have to be resolved. And Blackest Night is something that can only happen in crossovers, due to the amount of heroes being resurrected. They'd have to kill off a ton of people in the cartoon before Nekron would be able to ressurect them. But as a standalone villain, yes, he would be awesome. He'd have to be completely unrelated and NERFED AS HELL, since the dude has enough power to match an entire Corps.

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2010, 07:59:25 PM »
They could possibly go about all those stories in a different way, but it wouldn't be easy.  Perhaps I also just want to see Skimpy Star Sapphire Carol Ferris too!  XD

Offline Flame

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2010, 08:23:08 PM »
Hmm.. how are the tv shows these days on "killing people" in cartoons? I remember cartoons like Batman having to have no killing. The Joker couldnt kill, and thus they took their frustrations out on scarface instead, by finding new intuitive ways to dismember and destroy him.

I admit that I've never watched Static Shock.
What is it about? It seems good from what you guys are talking about.

Check out an episode or two. its quite good.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2010, 08:25:07 PM »
I admit that I've never watched Static Shock.
What is it about? It seems good from what you guys are talking about.
it's about this black guy who gets electric powers and his geeky white best friend

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2010, 12:57:46 AM »
Hmm.. how are the tv shows these days on "killing people" in cartoons? I remember cartoons like Batman having to have no killing. The Joker couldnt kill, and thus they took their frustrations out on scarface instead, by finding new intuitive ways to dismember and destroy him.
Check out an episode or two. its quite good.
Ah, but that's totally different. You see, characters couldn't kill, right? So Bruce Timm and Paul Dini basically thought of more gruesome and creepy things to do. Like Joker murdering tons of people all over the city with his laughing gas. Everyone knows the gas kills people. But you never hear it in the cartoon, so it's just implied. You have things like Joker's death through seeing his shadow get electrified, which was actually quite scary when you saw his body shake and fall. And tons of other stuff.

They could possibly go about all those stories in a different way, but it wouldn't be easy.  Perhaps I also just want to see Skimpy Star Sapphire Carol Ferris too!  XD
Argh, horrible costume. Miri Riam's the only Star Sapphire worth anything, to be honest. Carol's better as a simple love interest.

Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2010, 01:00:40 AM »
You have things like Joker's death through seeing his shadow get electrified, which was actually quite scary when you saw his body shake and fall. And tons of other stuff.

Wait, what death was this?

Quote
Argh, horrible costume. Miri Riam's the only Star Sapphire worth anything, to be honest. Carol's better as a simple love interest.

I like Carol's costume though.  I also like Fatality as a Star Sapphire as well.

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2010, 01:37:58 AM »
Wait, what death was this?

Joker's death from the flashback sequence of Return of the Joker. This scene was only in the censored version of the film however. Getting shot by that trick pistol was apparently much more violent than getting electrocuted off-screen.

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

Here's the uncut version for memory refreshing purposes.

As for this announced Green Lantern animated series, I don't really care. I thought First Flight was good and all, but honestly, if it comes to DC superheroes, the only one I care for is Batman, who, sadly, hasn't had the chance to shine in animated form as of late. That godawful Brave and the Bold thing makes me want to throw up.

I want Bruce Timm to make a mature Batman again, but I'm guessing I'll only get that via Arkham Asylum 2.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2010, 01:46:25 AM »
Ahhh right, the censored version.  Refused to watch it.

As for Return of the Joker though, if you think no one dies in the DCAU, just look at the scene where the Joker tries to kill Terry with the Satellite.  Countless people clearly are killed from that attack.  Also, in the World's Finest crossover, when the Joker missiles all those Lexcorp buildings. 

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Re: DC Animated Universe Thread
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2010, 01:49:51 AM »
Ahhh right, the censored version.  Refused to watch it.

As for Return of the Joker though, if you think no one dies in the DCAU, just look at the scene where the Joker tries to kill Terry with the Satellite.

I remember watching the audio commentary during that scene and the producers jokingly said all those were robot cars xD

But I never claimed that no one died in the DCAU, I merely said that recent adaptations of comicbook superheroes suffered from being phased down to suit the requirements of the TV parent council or whatever that organisation's name is. I mean, did you see that CGI Iron Man series with all characters being teenagers? What the [tornado fang] is that?

Why is blood, murder and [twin slasher] OK in comicbooks that everyone can easily buy, but not on TV? Are they not the same target demographic?