Author Topic: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?  (Read 67803 times)

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Offline Galappan

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #400 on: January 26, 2009, 03:41:50 AM »
But there is a pink Megaranger.



She's like right there.
Ooops. Sorry my bad. I only aware of Bioman, Maskman, Fiveman, TurboRanger, & Jetman though.

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And also, Copy X anyone?
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Model C
Model C is for Craft. I already made reservation.  8D
Unless there's a new successor for Model Z. Then my dream will be shattered...T_T

Offline HyperSonicEXE

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #401 on: January 26, 2009, 03:48:10 AM »
Triple Rock-Ons along with duplicate Models really aren't allowed.

'Cause, you know, Aile or Ashe would use Model Xxx, and then they'd have no armor, and then Capcom would lose its family-friendly rating.

Offline Flame

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #402 on: January 26, 2009, 04:28:24 AM »

Unless there's a new successor for Model Z. Then my dream will be shattered...T_T
MY Dream will be realized. Model Z alone? F*ck yeah.
OH! OH! how about this, you use Model Z, then you fight Model C aboard a falling space station then go to the core and fight Thomas, who then fuses with the core and...
wait...
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Satoryu

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #403 on: January 26, 2009, 04:34:07 AM »
Model C is for Craft. I already made reservation.

Craft should be spelled Kraft.

Shelly: for calling SDC a glitch, i gotta CLUSH Bomb you. Ben is absolutely correct here.

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Offline HokutoNoBen

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #404 on: January 26, 2009, 05:26:20 AM »
*smacks Ben's face in with a frying pan*

Magic fish is on vacation.

Call anything you like whatever you want, but do not put words in my mouth.

*Red Hot One Hundred's you to the gut*

I didn't put anything in your pie-hole that your words didn't leave open. Your blanket quote basically seemed to give off the notion that it was, so I pursued.

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Zan's response should have made it evident what I'm talking about, but to prevent any misunderstanding let me be absolutely clear: When I refer to dash-canceling I am not talking about the simple ability to dash out of a combo.  I'm talking about this:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2FXLTTNgXQ" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2FXLTTNgXQ</a>

(unable to find a video of its use against a boss, but it allows infinite stationary repeated hits at a lightning pace)

Oh, I know what you're talking about.

But the fact of the matter is, whichever way you choose to use it, it still stems from the same basic principle: that being able to cancel the start of the slash combo to be able to do what you wish afterward. The specific Slash Dash Cancel/"Hyakuretsu" (as I believe the Japanese called it, in some circles) being one of them.

So, you either have to be able to deal with all facets of what the technique allows, or not, since you stated you didn't care about it. But that's up to you.

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The dash-shot is a simple attack programmed to do more damage than a normal shot, there is no question of developer intent.  Dash-canceling is most obviously not, it has been given no official reference despite originating in a title well over a decade old, and has been broken and/or disabled in all but two saber-featuring games, be it by default or through game progress.  It's a glitch in the engine and nothing more.

Respectfully disagree, because, in the end, both techniques have one thing in common, in that they both allot for you to take advantage of the game's physics to your own ends. They're both more in line with the notion of "exploits", pure and simple.

For example, I doubt the original programmers intended for the dash shot to be used in such a context that most competent players use it: short dash or wall dash jump into one single shot that does double damage.

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Sometimes developer intent is overwritten and "unforeseen" techniques may be taken into account in sequels, this is true, but only if game balance is preserved.  The complete negation of the damage barrier doesn't fall under that by any stretch of the imagination.

Even so, I'm sure Capcom had to have known about the exploit. Even back in the day and age when the internet was still young, such things like this were passed around in (Japanese) magazines, BBSs, and of course, word of mouth (which means even more in places like Japan, because most of its people live in close proximity within its cities).

If they really wanted to have dealt with the "hidden feature", they had the opportunity to do so, multiple times. They just didn't care, in the majority of the cases there-in. Hell, some times I wonder if the fact that Omega had his little damage-barrier-ignoring, auto-combo of love was a sort of "in-joke" that did more to reference what kind of stuff that Capcom HAD to be aware of, but would likely never go out of their way to directly acknowledge in source material and etc. But this is the stuff of urban legends that has never been confirmed (and likely, never will).

But then again, considering that Street Fighter Alpha 3 DIRECTLY referenced the old "start combo, turn around, repeat" exploit from Final Fight, in Cody's Level 3 Super, it wouldn't surprise if this did have an air of truth.  8D

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We have had the meta-game discussion a million times already in Smash Bros. threads, Ben, I have no desire to continue such a fruitless waste of energy. 

That's unfortunate. Those were good times, in my opinion, at least.  8D

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Any given meta-game is defined by the fans, and exists only to those who honor it.  What constitutes the "main" play style is entirely subjective, ESPECIALLY in a single-player game.

Granted.

Even so, it's interesting that, now, you give off the notion that anything relating to play-style is subjective, and yet, just a few paragraphs and posts up, you made a group of rather opinionated statements that brought up the notion of "cheating", and rapping with me about the finer points about "glitches vs. exploit", "programmer's intent" and so forth.  

But basically...if you don't choose to utilize such "techniques" as part of your personal repertoire, either for the sake of challenge, or your personal sense of honor, fine. But if you really embrace the idea of things being "subjective", then such terms like "cheating" shouldn't be in your vocabulary, wouldn't you agree? Because, in the end, what constitutes as "cheating" is just as subjective, unless we bring up the topics of Cheat Codes or anything relating to Tool-Assisting/Game Enhancing.

Offline HyperSonicEXE

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #405 on: January 26, 2009, 05:46:08 AM »
But that was introduced in the first ZX.

Why is it there in the first place?

For players who don't play using the alternate Attack button setup (and frankly, for those who do), switching between weapons to do some sort of fairly fruitless 3-slash combo is ridiculous.

Offline Tickle Buffalo

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #406 on: January 26, 2009, 06:21:06 AM »
It's pretty handy against Fistleo if you've got your controls set up in a fashion that lets you use it easily. Does over half his health with OIS on.

Can't really say I've found much other use for it.


Wait no it's good against dragon Albert too. The wave hits like 6 times, s'pretty awesome. I got nice times thanks to that wave.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #407 on: January 26, 2009, 07:54:06 AM »
Craft should be spelled Kraft.
Get equipped with english script.

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Shelly: for calling SDC a glitch, i gotta CLUSH Bomb you. Ben is absolutely correct here.
glitch
-noun
1. a defect or malfunction in a machine or plan.
2. Computers. any error, malfunction, or problem. Compare bug


We are talking about the ability to circumvent an otherwise constant restriction (damage barrier) through a likely unforeseen and since unacknowledged rapid input combination.  Call it what you like.

I didn't put anything in your pie-hole that your words didn't leave open. Your blanket quote basically seemed to give off the notion that it was, so I pursued.
My quote is only "blanket" because you ignored the context.  I specifically spoke of dash canceling, never did I mention dash shots.  You and you alone spoke of them.

Adding to your confusion is the fact that you are using a far broader definition of "exploit" than I am.  I mean it in the negative sense, as in abuse.  When one uses the term, "physics exploit" to refer to a game tactic, they are generally not talking about a normal maneuver.  Dash shots have their own separate attack value within the coding of the game, their validity is not up for debate.

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Even so, it's interesting that, now, you give off the notion that anything relating to play-style is subjective, and yet, just a few paragraphs and posts up, you made a group of rather opinionated statements that brought up the notion of "cheating", and rapping with me about the finer points about "glitches vs. exploit", "programmer's intent" and so forth.
You brought it up.  Why would you expect anything but personal opinion when you're questioning one's personal play style?  The relevance of the discussion is debatable as well; we were discussing mobility, but the entire point of dash-canceling is repeated attacks while remaining stationary.  If you need to move, you're done attacking, and we're no longer on the topic of dash-canceling, we are on the topic of actually dashing, after your attack is concluded.

On that note, while FX cannot dash out of its attack animation, it can jump out of it.

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But if you really embrace the idea of things being "subjective", then such terms like "cheating" shouldn't be in your vocabulary, wouldn't you agree?
I would if I had claimed that anyone else was cheating at X4, but that's not the case.  I was discussing my own play style, so no.

In a single-player game, nobody else has a say, your own "personal honor" as you put it is the only thing that means anything.  The opinions and preferences of those not involved with the game are irrelevant.  That means that you, and you alone, determine what is and isn't cheating in your single-player meta-game.  You determine for yourself what gives value to the experience, and what cheapens it.

"Your pants are on fire."

Offline Satoryu

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #408 on: January 26, 2009, 04:09:33 PM »
Get equipped with english script.

doesn't make it correct. the spelling from the word's native tongue is Kraft.

and your glitch definition in no way applies to SDC. it's an intentional feature of the Z Saber to not activate boss damage barriers on the first and second hits of the 3 step combo. and its an intentional feature that you can immediately stop a dash with a saber swing, unless you've defeated Spiral Pegacion. SDC is an exploit of combining those intentional features.

What happens in Vegas stays on Youtube. I also stream on Twitch from time to time.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #409 on: January 27, 2009, 06:42:15 PM »
You're arguing more precision than you are intention.  The multiple steps are each in and of themselves intentional, but their rapid combination yields an unintentional result, no matter how logical it may be.  It's no different than launching yourself with a Bomb in Zelda TP to get an early Master Sword.  The fact that it throws you is intentional.  The fact that you land in an otherwise inaccessible area is not.  And the fact that it is wholly complaint with the physics engine of the game doesn't change that, that's why it's called a physics exploit.  If it was intended, it wouldn't be an exploit, it would be a normal move.

The first two slashes of the Z-Saber do not activate the damage barrier so that the full combo retains an effect, as the 3 slashes are basically Zero's answer to X's charged shot.  If dash-canceling was intentional then W-Shredder wouldn't exist.  The Shippuga probably wouldn't either, because it's pointless save for accessing an empty room.  But like Ben said, as is typical the developers don't really give a damn.  The PS1 games use the same engine and the developers largely do not care how one chooses to break a single-player game.

doesn't make it correct. the spelling from the word's native tongue is Kraft.
*points finger, cue the "Cornered" music*
The word's native tongue doesn't regularly use the roman alphabet, and when the Japanese attempt to translate they're as prone to mixups as the rest of the word.  The two names in this case are phonetically identical, which is more than I can say for "Dr. Bile" from the RMZ 1-3 Game Music Collection track list.  So the fact that your position is based solely on the Physis track list is less than concrete.

Even ignoring that, your argument is at best a region-vs-region debate, which is in and of itself pointless because the correct answer would vary by location.  However, one little post-Physis source destroys it: Rockman Zero Official Complete Works
http://mysite.verizon.net/Serpentara/RMZCraft.jpg

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Offline Satoryu

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #410 on: January 27, 2009, 06:45:45 PM »
Kraft is a German word.

*two CLUSH Bombs to the face*

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #411 on: January 27, 2009, 06:49:48 PM »
It's also a cheese.  Your point is what?  An inspiration from a given term does not mandate 100% exact copying of it.  My username should tell you that much.

Capcom applying spelling modifications to words from German origins are nothing new, either.  Play Legends sometime.

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Offline Satoryu

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #412 on: January 27, 2009, 06:51:20 PM »
doesn't make them right.

*CLUSH Bombs the boot*

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #413 on: January 27, 2009, 06:52:50 PM »
The fact that it's their character makes them right.  They can name him whatever they want.

"Your pants are on fire."

Offline Acid

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Re: What Do You Want to See in a ZX3?
« Reply #414 on: January 27, 2009, 06:54:01 PM »
My word is law here on RPM. This leads nowhere.

Lock'd.