GENERAL COMIC BOOK THREAD (MANGA NOT ALLOWED)

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Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #1000 on: September 25, 2011, 05:09:59 AM
they are his ONLY disguise.
Someone here doesn't know Supes has pretty much the best secret identity in DC.







All explained thoroughly. (enlarge images a bit to read) That's from Birthright, too. The one they're adapting the story from.

Here's a posture change reference from Frank Quitely:


The glasses thing is mostly a joke. Hal Jordan's secret identity is known by all close people, Wonder Woman shows her face publically, and even Bruce Wayne's secret identity has been found out by Joker, the Riddler, Ra's Al Ghul and Hugo Strange.

But nobody ever finds out who Superman is, other than in rare occasions. Well, that and Batman. But it's okay. He's Batman.



Offline Phi

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Reply #1001 on: September 25, 2011, 05:50:14 AM
The glasses thing is mostly a joke. Hal Jordan's secret identity is known by all close people, Wonder Woman shows her face publically, and even Bruce Wayne's secret identity has been found out by Joker, the Riddler, Ra's Al Ghul and Hugo Strange.

But nobody ever finds out who Superman is, other than in rare occasions. Well, that and Batman. But it's okay. He's Batman.

That's the thing. Out of all the examples you gave, Batman (and pretty much all masked heroes) is the only one that can be taken realistically.

Do you honestly think changing posture, curl, glasses and having an obscure job would actually throw people off? Of course not. Superman's disguise is just a really long ongoing gag, as most super heroes need a secret identity. Clark clearly looks likes Superman no matter what, but the reader isn't supposed to take those millions of people oblivious to his alter ego that seriously.

Batman on the other hand, is a hell of a brilliant disguiser. From his Batsuit to an average hobo on the street, complete with voice change, mask and on some occasions, a stubby beard. Realistically, you would have to think, put two-and-two together, link the appearances of Bruce and Bats' (etc.) That's how some people were able to figure out his identity; scientifically.





Offline Flame

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Reply #1002 on: September 25, 2011, 06:33:40 AM
Because Batman pulling off a person mask is more realistic.

Dont forget Toymaker has deduced Superman's Identity in "What happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" and even LAMPSHADED the fact of how funny it is that he fooled everyone with just a pair of glasses and combed back hair.

Oh back to Batman, dont forget hes also used Glasses+Mustache+Match to disguise Bruce Wayne as Matches Malone.


...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #1003 on: September 25, 2011, 06:48:41 AM
Superman's hiding in plain sight. His schtick is that he just doesn't get noticed, because he's an average joe. He's a typical geek people don't look at. His face doesn't get analysed, and neither is his behavior. People want to forget him instead of remembering him. He's not social or outgoing, he's a normal average joe. That's the thing. His secret identity MUST be something as obvious as this, because his main thing is that people simply don't care. Heck, most people in DC don't even think he has a secret identity. Why would he? He's a God among men. Why would he hide what he is in order to live among us?

...and even if God attempted to live among men, who would believe him?

Superman can cross many, many metaphors, but the main one is that he's an average joe, just like you and me. Clark Kent is the real personality, and he slouches and is a walking trainwreck, completely awkward because he's recognized as such. He has become a character, the lesser man most "manlier men" the Daily Planet makes fun of. He's a terrific writer, journalist and even Pulitzer winner, but he's still a joke. And that's what keeps him hidden. The fact that NOBODY gives a damn about Clark Kent, even if sometimes, people on the street go "Hey, has anyone ever told you that you look like Superman?"

Plus, it's a comic book. People are caricatures. They think as such.

Also, Toymaker made fun of that fact because Alan Moore's a grumpy old grouch who likes to bring reality into comic books. =P



Offline Phi

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Reply #1004 on: September 25, 2011, 06:57:28 AM
Because Batman pulling off a person mask is more realistic.

...
Believe it or not, Flame, using a mask is a real method for disguise. Combined with voice changing and irrelevance of a multi-billionaire even going into disguise as a homeless person in the first place. Seems like a damn good disguise to me. There's no way in hell most people wouldn't mistake Supes for Clark Kent. Especially Lois, who sees him almost every [tornado fang]ing day.  You're just supposed to go with it.

More about Batman:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ8990rMEdY[/youtube]

And this in particular wasn't even an intentional disguise. Bats isn't stupid, he knows the highly unlikely-hood of someone suspecting an insanely busy billionaire as a "crazed" vigilante dressing up like it's Halloween. 

Oh back to Batman, dont forget hes also used Glasses+Mustache+Match to disguise Bruce Wayne as Matches Malone.



This in itself, was a quip at the ridiculous prospect of simple glasses working as a disguise. Usually, Batman uses much more detailed and logical disguises to get his information.

 



Offline Flame

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Reply #1005 on: September 25, 2011, 07:05:03 AM
I still found Toymaker's quip at the disgise amusing. Because it's true.

Also, I know, I know. hes the opposite of Batman, where Bruce Wayne is the disguise. Superman is really Clark Kent. He said it best himself in TAS when everyone thought Clark Died after his car fell off a cliff. He cant be Superman ALL the time or he'd go crazy.

Only Glasses are still an important PART of his hiding his Superman identity. Like the kents say. they hide his face and change it's appearance.

Oh, Superman Returns also did a little nod at that when the kid looks at Clark from the side just as the TV is showing an image of Superman from the side.

He sort of goes wide eyed and reaches for his inhaler. Then there was Lois and whatsis name pondering how Clark is similar to Superman. But then Clark sort of does something silly and they dismiss the notion.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #1006 on: September 25, 2011, 07:14:26 AM
Putting it this way to nerds here. If you suddenly got a really popular face, without your real name attached to it, how many of those popular kids from high school who never give you a second glance would connect it to you?

Basically the same thing.



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Reply #1007 on: September 25, 2011, 07:17:44 AM
Putting it this way to nerds here. If you suddenly got a really popular face, without your real name attached to it, how many of those popular kids from high school who never give you a second glance would connect it to you?

Basically the same thing.

Hate to bring Mega Man into this, but Star Force dealt with this issue exactly. Geo turns into Mega Man. People see Mega Man. OMG ITS MEGA MAN. They see Geo. OH WHOS DIS NUB?

Same basic principle.

OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
Just enjoy yourself, don't complain about everything


Offline Flame

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Reply #1008 on: September 25, 2011, 07:22:34 AM
He still wears a visor though. and sometimes the art makes it, (OSS mainly) so that it hides his eyes.

But true, true...

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #1009 on: September 25, 2011, 08:43:38 AM
Okay, for a second, pretend you have the powers of Superman. You can fly around the world in mere minutes, fly, move faster than a speeding bullet, fly, are invulernable, more powerful than a locomotive, fly and show everyone that you practically have the powers of a god. You feed off the energy of our sun, and essentailly spend most of your days helping people all over the world at any given moment. You have a home in the Arctic, you can fly to the moon and back, and have grand adventures with other beings with powers and abilites far beyond those of mortal men. You don't need money, as you don't really need anything like food, slter, clothes, or other materialistic things.

Would you have a day job? Would you deal with the everyday bullshit that the rest of us mere mortals do? The majority of people wouldn't because what would be the point. That's one of the things that actually makes Clark Kent so special. He does, because he thinks himself as a human while everyone else sees him as a god, and who thinks a god has a day job?

That is what makes his disguise work so well. Other heroes are men posing as something more. Some are gods, like Wonder Woman, and she presents herself as such. And Superman comes off similar to Diana, as a god, an alien, an otherworldly being from Krypton, and he doesn't hide his face. That's why his disguise works, because he doesn't wear a mask. The idea of him not wearing a mask is so that people trust him, and because he spends pretty much all his time saving the world and helping humanity, they do trust him.

It is the lack of a mask, the lack of mystery,the scope of his powers, and the confidence and trust of people why people don't think he is Clark Kent even though Clark looks like him, is because Clark Kent is just a man, like everyone else, whereas Superman is a god.

In Action Comics #900, Luthor obtains the powers of a God, and tries to find Superman's most painful memory and Lex is shocked when he finds out that it's the death of Pa Kent. In that moment, he finds out that Clark is Superman and he can't believe it. He always saw Superman as a god who looked down upon humanity, but comes to find out that Superman was as human as everyone else, and it absolutely infuriates Lex. He sees it as a mockery of his intelligence, as he both knows Superman and Clark, and even he could not put two and two together, because to him, like pretty much everyone else, the very idea of Clark Kent defies logic and reason.

That's why I love Superman so much. It's an idea of someone who was raised by kind, loving parents and who just tries to do the right thing with all his abilities.



Offline Flame

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Reply #1010 on: September 25, 2011, 09:29:38 AM
Yeah that really is the best thing about him. Despite being an Alien from another world and practically a God on ours, he is still the most Human person you will ever encounter. He does what he does as Superman because he's a good person and wants to help others, be it capture a bank robber, help an old lady cross the street, or inspire little kids to be good people and be successful in life. And even as Superman, he doesnt carry himself as a God or as superior to anyone- He carries himself as a normal guy, a guy who you shouldnt be afraid or intimidated to approach despite his incredible powers and imposing presence.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #1011 on: September 25, 2011, 04:24:41 PM


Morrison and Quitely really nail him with the way they portray him as an everyman instead of an all-powerful being. Basically, he's more human than most humans. That's what makes him SuperMAN.

I'd really recomend some reading of the original Golden Age Superman stories by Siegel and Shuster. They're still current, now more than ever due to the economic crisis, and the way they're portrayed, is probably one of the most amazing descriptions of humanity I've ever read in a single character. He didn't even face supervillains back then. Heck, the first superpowered creature he ever faced (and it was the only one for a long time, since it was a "comedy" issue) was Mr Mxyzptlk. But he just fights corporate evil, corrupt officials and dishonest crooks, not by simply using his strength, but by using his head to make out a plan, and his strength as a tool.



Offline Flame

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Reply #1012 on: September 25, 2011, 05:09:31 PM
I was pretty pleased with Supes portrayal in Superman Beyond #0 because despite being all powerful and aging slower than everyone else, He still feels himself getting older and has the same insecurities that us Humans do about getting older. He even jokingly wonders if he's going senile. Until he realizes that despite his own worries, he cannot simply hang up the cape and retire.

He even TALKS like an older man. Calling the mutated Mangler Maccaro "son" and Big Barda "Young Lady", and that he's old enough to be her Grandpa.(Though she later makes the argument that she might be older than him)

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Waifu

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Reply #1013 on: September 27, 2011, 05:14:56 AM
You know all this talk about Superman being a human and interesting character made me realize that Supes is a lot more than I give him credit for. I use to think of him as brick charactger with almost no personality until I got my hands on Alan Moore's "Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" and it shocked as it made me realize that Supes is a human like everyone else. Maybe I should read those Golden age books, I use to think of Superman as a flat character with no personality or depth at all but reading these posts helped me to understand why he is loved by so many people.



Morrison and Quitely really nail him with the way they portray him as an everyman instead of an all-powerful being. Basically, he's more human than most humans. That's what makes him SuperMAN.

I'd really recomend some reading of the original Golden Age Superman stories by Siegel and Shuster. They're still current, now more than ever due to the economic crisis, and the way they're portrayed, is probably one of the most amazing descriptions of humanity I've ever read in a single character. He didn't even face supervillains back then. Heck, the first superpowered creature he ever faced (and it was the only one for a long time, since it was a "comedy" issue) was Mr Mxyzptlk. But he just fights corporate evil, corrupt officials and dishonest crooks, not by simply using his strength, but by using his head to make out a plan, and his strength as a tool.

Yeah that really is the best thing about him. Despite being an Alien from another world and practically a God on ours, he is still the most Human person you will ever encounter. He does what he does as Superman because he's a good person and wants to help others, be it capture a bank robber, help an old lady cross the street, or inspire little kids to be good people and be successful in life. And even as Superman, he doesnt carry himself as a God or as superior to anyone- He carries himself as a normal guy, a guy who you shouldnt be afraid or intimidated to approach despite his incredible powers and imposing presence.

Okay, for a second, pretend you have the powers of Superman. You can fly around the world in mere minutes, fly, move faster than a speeding bullet, fly, are invulernable, more powerful than a locomotive, fly and show everyone that you practically have the powers of a god. You feed off the energy of our sun, and essentailly spend most of your days helping people all over the world at any given moment. You have a home in the Arctic, you can fly to the moon and back, and have grand adventures with other beings with powers and abilites far beyond those of mortal men. You don't need money, as you don't really need anything like food, slter, clothes, or other materialistic things.

Would you have a day job? Would you deal with the everyday bullshit that the rest of us mere mortals do? The majority of people wouldn't because what would be the point. That's one of the things that actually makes Clark Kent so special. He does, because he thinks himself as a human while everyone else sees him as a god, and who thinks a god has a day job?

That is what makes his disguise work so well. Other heroes are men posing as something more. Some are gods, like Wonder Woman, and she presents herself as such. And Superman comes off similar to Diana, as a god, an alien, an otherworldly being from Krypton, and he doesn't hide his face. That's why his disguise works, because he doesn't wear a mask. The idea of him not wearing a mask is so that people trust him, and because he spends pretty much all his time saving the world and helping humanity, they do trust him.

It is the lack of a mask, the lack of mystery,the scope of his powers, and the confidence and trust of people why people don't think he is Clark Kent even though Clark looks like him, is because Clark Kent is just a man, like everyone else, whereas Superman is a god.

In Action Comics #900, Luthor obtains the powers of a God, and tries to find Superman's most painful memory and Lex is shocked when he finds out that it's the death of Pa Kent. In that moment, he finds out that Clark is Superman and he can't believe it. He always saw Superman as a god who looked down upon humanity, but comes to find out that Superman was as human as everyone else, and it absolutely infuriates Lex. He sees it as a mockery of his intelligence, as he both knows Superman and Clark, and even he could not put two and two together, because to him, like pretty much everyone else, the very idea of Clark Kent defies logic and reason.

That's why I love Superman so much. It's an idea of someone who was raised by kind, loving parents and who just tries to do the right thing with all his abilities.

Superman isn't an all powerful being, he is an average joe like everyone else....okay, maybe not so average.  :P



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #1014 on: September 27, 2011, 05:48:07 AM
That was essentially my point. Superman is more human than most heroes give him credit for. His humanity is what set Luthor off in Action Comics #900. As Morrison once wrote, Superman is the superhero that other superheroes look up to.



Offline Flame

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Reply #1015 on: September 27, 2011, 06:19:29 AM
haha, Speaking of that story, I JUST realized that Jordan Elliot = JORdan ELliot. Jor El. I mean, I knew it was supes, but I just got the name XD

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #1016 on: September 27, 2011, 10:58:18 AM
You know all this talk about Superman being a human and interesting character made me realize that Supes is a lot more than I give him credit for. I use to think of him as brick charactger with almost no personality until I got my hands on Alan Moore's "Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" and it shocked as it made me realize that Supes is a human like everyone else. Maybe I should read those Golden age books, I use to think of Superman as a flat character with no personality or depth at all but reading these posts helped me to understand why he is loved by so many people.

Superman isn't an all powerful being, he is an average joe like everyone else....okay, maybe not so average.  :P

Here you go:



READ THAT.



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #1017 on: September 27, 2011, 11:58:33 AM
Speaking of All Star Superman.  How is the animated film adaption?



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Reply #1018 on: September 27, 2011, 12:02:55 PM
Halfway decent. It certainly makes you cry if you know the story of the book...

...but MUCH, MUCH worse than the comic, which is the greatest Superman story ever written, and probably that ever will be written. But it's recommended viewing after you've read the comic. Problem is, the movie only has the mainest of plots... and the comic's best parts are the ones in between, that complement the way you view the ending.



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #1019 on: September 27, 2011, 01:10:41 PM
Ah, I see I see.

Alright, I shall read it~



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Reply #1020 on: September 28, 2011, 06:40:11 PM


FUUUUUUUUCK YOU FIIIIIIIIIIIIIINCH.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #1021 on: September 28, 2011, 06:51:11 PM
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?



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Reply #1022 on: September 28, 2011, 08:10:10 PM
GL: New Guardians is basically this:

"Reboot? What reboot? Screw your reboots, DC. Everything's the same as it ever was and here are tons of characters no new reader would ever have a chance to know about."

Man, the WHOLE GL line hasn't been affected. Johns has more power than I thought.

Also:





Cautiously interested.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #1023 on: September 28, 2011, 08:30:12 PM
Heh, brining Jean back again. Not surprised.



Offline Rin

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Reply #1024 on: September 28, 2011, 10:52:54 PM


FUUUUUUUUCK YOU FIIIIIIIIIIIIIINCH.
The [tornado fang] is this?
THE [tornado fang] is THAT?!

No, seriously, what am I looking at here exactly?