Author Topic: Who exactly created the Biometals?  (Read 12140 times)

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Offline CyberXIII

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Who exactly created the Biometals?
« on: October 29, 2009, 01:27:45 AM »
In ZX, Ciel is shown to have created the original biometals and ROCK/MEGA system to combat Model W/V which was made from Ragnarok.  ZXA implies that Albert created them, and built hundreds of Model W's based off the core fragment Serpent merged with in the previous game.  Then it says that he encoded them with his own data so that only certain people could unlock and merge with them.

What am I missing here?  I'm confused...
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Offline The Great Gonzo

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 01:45:14 AM »
I may be wrong, but Ciel created Models X, Z, L, H, P, and F; Albert created Model A (and may have messed with the originals).

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 02:47:26 AM »
I don't see what there is to be confused about.

Model W - Albert
Model A - Albert
Model X - Ciel
Model Z - Ciel
Model H - Ciel
Model L - Ciel
Model F - Ciel
Model P - Ciel
Model O - Unknown; canonically questionable
Model a - Unknown; canonically questionable; actual fragment may not exist as it is an A-Trans form

Albert did not create anything from Serpent's core, he is the one who originally created Model W using what was left of Ragnarok.  In other words, Albert is the original creator of Biometal, and of the R.O.C.K. System, which Model W uses the same as the other models.  And he made Serpent's core the same as he made all the other cores.

The R.O.C.K. System works only with the Chosen Ones: those people which Albert has marked using his DNA.  Ciel created her Biometals in order to counter Model W using her research on it, but she did not understand Model W fully, and thus that same restriction from Model W was carried over into her own Biometals.  Those who can use Ciel's Biometal are the same as those who can use Model W: Chosen Ones selected by Albert (with the exception of Ashe).
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 02:40:44 PM by Hypershell »

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Offline Keno

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2009, 04:35:55 PM »
Let's talk about how Inticreates can't write storylines worth dick & how all the biometals are copies, not the originals in biometal form. Right? I was never too sure on that. X & Zero are dead at this point?

Offline Zan

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2009, 06:16:59 PM »
Quote
Let's talk about how Inticreates can't write storylines worth dick & how all the biometals are copies, not the originals in biometal form. Right? I was never too sure on that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Inti's writing in ZX and Advent.

Despite that, there's a shockingly vast amount of people that do not comprehend even the most basic plot points from these games.

And really now, the next person to seriously make the claim that the Livemetals are not the originals deserves to be "Gannon Banned." They can come back once they've taken the Reading Comprehension 101 course. More specifically, once they figure out the meaning of the word "consciousness".

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X & Zero are dead at this point?

As dead as Phantom. Which only strengthens the fact that we are dealing with the originals.

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Model O - Unknown; canonically questionable

Fleuve made it! >.>

Offline Flame

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2009, 06:28:19 PM »
Quote
Let's talk about how Inticreates can't write storylines worth dick & how all the biometals are copies, not the originals in biometal form. Right? I was never too sure on that. X & Zero are dead at this point?
The game itself states it is the originals.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with Inti's writing in ZX and Advent.

Despite that, there's a shockingly vast amount of people that do not comprehend even the most basic plot points from these games.

And really now, the next person to seriously make the claim that the Livemetals are not the originals deserves to be "Gannon Banned." They can come back once they've taken the Reading Comprehension 101 course. More specifically, once they figure out the meaning of the word "consciousness".
Gannon Banned... XD
I have to agree here... The writing seems fine to me, and pretty understandable. Story is pretty clear as well.
Consciousness, and the original which uses SOUL. when taking that into account, it should be blatantly obvious. Anyone who cant get it even though there are those 2 words used, will never get it even if it smacks them in the face.


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Fleuve made it! >.>
yet you cant get it until after the game. Light gives X the Ultimate Armor in X4, but that doesnt mean it is canonical to the actual events of X4.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zan

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2009, 06:35:38 PM »
Seems pretty canonical to me. Considering the thing is in X5.

Offline Flame

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2009, 06:43:51 PM »
yeah, but in X5 it was actually a story element as X uses it against Zero. in X4 its only obtainable by cheat code. the matter is WHEN did it become canonical? definitely not in X4, and in X6, its back to just a mere cheat code bonus. X5 is the only one it is canonical in. (possibly X8, since you can get it legit- but like Ox, after you beat the game with certain requirements...

XCM is another one. Which im not too sure about. Signs point to it being canonical, but...
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zan

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2009, 08:00:23 PM »
Even if just a code, I think there always was some validity to Right creating an Ultimate Armor but it still being incomplete. If it was just a just in inconsequential bonus, they wouldn't have made Light explain it and just have X start with it from the get go.

Offline Flame

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2009, 08:06:18 PM »
I guess they needed SOMETHING to say, just to validify it, I assume they didnt give it right off the bat simply because the way the put it in was as an upgrade by capsule- i dunno.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2009, 12:38:27 AM »
yet you cant get it until after the game. Light gives X the Ultimate Armor in X4, but that doesnt mean it is canonical to the actual events of X4.
Minor correction there.  You cannot use Model OX until after the game.  You can, however, obtain Model O as soon as you have access to Area N.  It just doesn't do anything until Fleuve examines it, which he refuses to until you're on a Clear file.

yeah, but in X5 it was actually a story element as X uses it against Zero. in X4 its only obtainable by cheat code.
However messing with that is the fact that the Ultimate Armor which X is using against Zero is very clearly the X4 design and not the X5 design.

X4's code doesn't directly unlock the UA but rather unlocks the scenario in which Light gives it to X.  Such an alternate seems valid, and the mention that "this armor is not completed yet and your safety is not assured" at the same time gives X a reason to be hesitant to use it, not that he wouldn't be regardless as X isn't the type to wield overwhelming power without caution.

As for X6, if not for adding a third color scheme I'd have said that it was most likely supposed to be a "what if" scenario as to whether or not X had been using it in X5.  Maybe that is it and X just decided during the last three weeks that black would look cool.  >.>
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 02:36:47 PM by Hypershell »

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Offline Flame

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2009, 02:08:40 AM »
X was emo because Zero was dead, so he painted it black.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Black Mage J

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2009, 02:26:35 AM »
They never actually said Zero was dead, just missing, they even have this little photo of this sign with a picture of zero, and in big bold letters it says MISSING.
The ultimate armor really isnt a big deal of the storyline seeing it not be of much importance or else X would have used it more.

Offline Flame

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2009, 02:39:18 AM »
But everyone pretty much thought he was dead, but simply didnt want to believe it.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zan

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2009, 01:51:53 PM »
Between "missing" and "never seen again", I think that's pretty much proof positive of his being dead.

Offline Flame

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 05:25:10 PM »
X himself states that he searched all over for his parts, his signal, "But..." (Or something like that)
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Zan

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2009, 05:48:12 PM »
Ok, checking back, I see now... X5. Was talking about Z4 instead, my bad.

In regards to his X5 "death." Not unless you count X has having died as well. Everyone assumes his survival because X too survived. The fact that X didn't find anything but the Z-saber was all the more reason for Zero to be alive. X never had any doubts and even feels his presence at times. Nobody but Gate really assumes he has died, and even if he actually did, he was revived again. As a matter of fact, if Zero himself is to be literally believed; he never died, not even in X1.

Whereas in regards to Z4, him being missing is directly related to never being seen again, therefore he's dead from that point onward.




Offline Keno

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2009, 04:26:53 AM »
Oh, for some reason I had thought that X & Zero were dead dead, like Mega Man dead.

I always figured the color scheme change was because the armor was in different stages of development. All those colors mean a lot in 21XX technology, otherwise Light wouldn't put lights all over them.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2009, 02:54:42 PM »
It occurred to me that I forgot Model a in my last list, not that it means much.  Nevertheless, for completion's sake, I added it.

Oh, for some reason I had thought that X & Zero were dead dead, like Mega Man dead.
I don't see how anyone who's actually played ZX gathers that, yet apparently many do.  Their only basis of this is Ciel's statement as to "the data I have obtained on ancient heroes", and since when is a Reploid soul not considered data?  I believe that was established in Xtreme2 some 450+ years ago, not to mention the fact that floating program life objects were everywhere in the Zero series.

Even if you completely ignore the use of the word "consciousness" by Prairie, there's no getting around the fact that Model H refers to the battle to protect humans hundreds of years ago as their own actions and not those of some ambiguous legendary heroes.  So that is two in-game accounts which establish the Biometals as actually being the souls of the legendary heroes which they represent.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2009, 08:00:32 PM »
Quote
I don't see how anyone who's actually played ZX gathers that, yet apparently many do.

Never mind anybody who's played the ZERO-series. Both the first and third game have pretty clearly established how far copying the legendary heroes will get you. The Livemetal's capabilities far exceed that of a copy.

Offline CyberXIII

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2009, 08:45:29 PM »
I don't see what there is to be confused about.

Model W - Albert
Model A - Albert
Model X - Ciel
Model Z - Ciel
Model H - Ciel
Model L - Ciel
Model F - Ciel
Model P - Ciel
Model O - Unknown; canonically questionable
Model a - Unknown; canonically questionable; actual fragment may not exist as it is an A-Trans form

Albert did not create anything from Serpent's core, he is the one who originally created Model W using what was left of Ragnarok.  In other words, Albert is the original creator of Biometal, and of the R.O.C.K. System, which Model W uses the same as the other models.  And he made Serpent's core the same as he made all the other cores.

The R.O.C.K. System works only with the Chosen Ones: those people which Albert has marked using his DNA.  Ciel created her Biometals in order to counter Model W using her research on it, but she did not understand Model W fully, and thus that same restriction from Model W was carried over into her own Biometals.  Those who can use Ciel's Biometal are the same as those who can use Model W: Chosen Ones selected by Albert (with the exception of Ashe).

Yes, but if Albert created the original R.O.C.K system, how did Ciel figure out how to make the other 6 biometals?  Also, how could he mark those chosen ones if he didn't know the other biometals existed at the time?
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Offline Flame

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2009, 09:03:25 PM »
Quote
Yes, but if Albert created the original R.O.C.K system, how did Ciel figure out how to make the other 6 biometals?  Also, how could he mark those chosen ones if he didn't know the other biometals existed at the time?

Little something called "reverse engineering".

After all, she has had access to a Model W fragment, and a Model W core. as well as Weil's area of expertise, reploid resurrection. (since Weil himself was bonded to Ragnarok Already. the others werent)

also, Albert marked the chosen ones for Model W, nothing else. they are people whom he has randomly selected to be elegible to use his model W's, of which he has made so many.

Ciel's biometals, since they use the same exact technology as model W, are therefore also compatible with anyone who is able to use Model W. Therefore, anyone Albert has put his DNA in to be a chosen one, can either wield Model W, or Ciel's biometals.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2009, 09:58:44 PM »
Flame basically nailed it.  Ciel's use of the R.O.C.K. System comes from researching Model W.  The fact that she used that research in making her own Biometal is specifically stated in-game.

There is no reason Albert has to be aware of the existence of any other Biometals to mark multiple Chosen Ones since his plan involves the use of multiple MegaMen fighting each other to begin with.  Albert simply planned to give them all Model W fragments, and the existence of Ciel's Biometal presented a unique opportunity.  When exactly Albert became aware of Ciel's Biometal is not stated, but he did at some point collect data on them; his first second form in ZX Advent has an attack borrowed from all seven of the other Models.

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Offline Flame

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2009, 04:21:06 AM »
I think you mean his SECOND form, Hyper...
Also, its kind of making pasta, then someone comes up and adds oil and grated cheese. It wasnt what you originally intended to eat, but it presents an interesting taste. Some variety.

...

Wat.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Who exactly created the Biometals?
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2009, 05:19:54 AM »
Mmm...  Pasta...

Mmm...  Forbidden Donut...
I think you mean his SECOND form, Hyper...
Yes, I did, sorry.  I'm in the habit of thinking of human-sized as the first and giant monsters as the final; Albert reverses that trend.

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