Author Topic: Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?  (Read 15429 times)

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Offline Hypershell

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Re: Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?
« Reply #75 on: September 04, 2009, 01:28:12 AM »
I thought it was ridiculous that you needed upgrades that you can potentially miss to actually be able to finish the game unarmoured.
I will again reiterate that YOU SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING X6 UNARMORED IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.  You start the game with Falcon Armor.  And it doesn't bite you.

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I point out the fact that X5 did the same thing if you picked X.
You destroyed your own argument with that last phrase.  The difference is that X5's Fourth Armor is not unavoidable, you can start the game as Zero and you don't get it.  In X6, the Falcon Armor is completely unavoidable.  It is the standard, with no alternative, when you start the game.  You do not downgrade from your starting condition if you don't know what you're doing.

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The only reason they went ahead with MM9 was because they knew that nostalgia would boost the sales on it quite a bit.
Could also have something to do with the fact that the development team was about twenty people.  Microscopic by today's standards.

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That's right, you could finish that one unarmoured without any upgrades.
I will again reiterate that X5 is the ONLY game in the entire series in which this is possible.  Special weapons are upgrades, too.

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Offline Fxeni

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Re: Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?
« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2009, 06:08:51 AM »
I will again reiterate that X5 is the ONLY game in the entire series in which this is possible.  Special weapons are upgrades, too.
Yet you don't have to use them to advance for the most part. That's the vital difference here.

The rest of the arguments are nice and all, but it doesn't change the fact that you can finish the game unarmoured in every other X game without upgrades you can miss for good. This is not the case with X6. I figured I didn't have to explain this, but of course I have to be as crystal clear as possible, don't I?

Offline Zan

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Re: Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?
« Reply #77 on: September 04, 2009, 02:00:52 PM »
Can you miss them for good? There are plenty of rescueables that have not a single Nightmare nearby.

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Offline VixyNyan

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Re: Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?
« Reply #78 on: September 04, 2009, 03:54:11 PM »
Just don't let the Nightmares grab them, and you can always go back and pick them up later. ^^
When they are infected, they will be "MISSING". You won't be able to rescue them anymore. Don't let that happen!

You can trick Nightmares towards you if you have the Nightmare show up on-screen, but don't have the Repliroid showing.
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Offline Hypershell

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Re: Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?
« Reply #79 on: September 04, 2009, 07:27:22 PM »
Why in the blue hell would anyone be attempting an unarmored run if they suck badly enough that the Nightmares are capturing the Reploids, anyway?  The only area where that should remotely be a problem is Metal Shark Player, as there's one Nightmare which is particularly tough to nab in time without a screen-wide move.  And even that is not impossible, I know because I've collected every power-up as both X and Zero without ever obtaining a special weapon.

Yet you don't have to use them to advance for the most part. That's the vital difference here.
Ever played MegaMan 1, 2, 3, or 8?  You're also not going to finish X2 without Damage Barrier abuse, another grounds on which many criticize X6.  And good luck getting to Shadow Devil with Gaia Armor in X5 (possible, yes, but a pain in the absolute ass).

Getting screwed by equipment choice, or weapon energy in the case of earlier games, is nothing new.

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The rest of the arguments are nice and all, but it doesn't change the fact that you can finish the game unarmoured in every other X game without upgrades you can miss for good.
-Rapid 5
-Shot Eraser
-Power Drive
-Speedster
-Quick Charge
-Overdrive
-Damage Converter
-1 Life Up
-2 Energy Ups

...which of those are you having trouble beating the game without?

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This is not the case with X6. I figured I didn't have to explain this, but of course I have to be as crystal clear as possible, don't I?
You are crystal clear.  I simply consider your argument invalid.  I do not consider the usefulness of equipment to be a flaw.  If among 7 different solutions to a spike wall you cannot find ONE that suits you, that's your problem.  If you lack the ability to determine minimum requirements then you should not be attempting minimal runs in the first place.

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Offline Fxeni

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Re: Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?
« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2009, 10:34:48 AM »
Why in the blue hell would anyone be attempting an unarmored run if they suck badly enough that the Nightmares are capturing the Reploids, anyway?  The only area where that should remotely be a problem is Metal Shark Player, as there's one Nightmare which is particularly tough to nab in time without a screen-wide move.  And even that is not impossible, I know because I've collected every power-up as both X and Zero without ever obtaining a special weapon.
Ever played MegaMan 1, 2, 3, or 8?  You're also not going to finish X2 without Damage Barrier abuse, another grounds on which many criticize X6.  And good luck getting to Shadow Devil with Gaia Armor in X5 (possible, yes, but a pain in the absolute ass).

Getting screwed by equipment choice, or weapon energy in the case of earlier games, is nothing new.
-Rapid 5
-Shot Eraser
-Power Drive
-Speedster
-Quick Charge
-Overdrive
-Damage Converter
-1 Life Up
-2 Energy Ups

...which of those are you having trouble beating the game without?
You are crystal clear.  I simply consider your argument invalid.  I do not consider the usefulness of equipment to be a flaw.  If among 7 different solutions to a spike wall you cannot find ONE that suits you, that's your problem.  If you lack the ability to determine minimum requirements then you should not be attempting minimal runs in the first place.

Look, it's not that I'm incapable of doing it (as you should very well know by now), it's that I find it ridiculous that you need those parts in the first place. Yeah it's usually easy to get the parts, but the very fact that these parts can theoretically be missed is my issue with the system. In no other X game do you really need a part to advance (again, unarmoured), so I find it stupid that all of a sudden it's needed here.

I was only counting the X games when it came to weapon use to advance, by the way... I'm well aware of the Classic series segments where weapons are needed. Then again, you have to get the weapons anyways, so using them in that one spot and switching back to the buster is just fine (which you can't do for parts in the middle of a stage, as you obviously know).

Also, damage barrier abuse is kind of a part of minimal runs in general, depending on the game. Besides, it's not like you need to get a part to have said damage barrier >_>'

Anyways, I'll stop here. We obviously view this differently, and there's no convincing one another from what I can see. It's a waste of time and space to go on, so that's the end of that from my end.

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?
« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2009, 04:32:53 PM »
Look, it's not that I'm incapable of doing it (as you should very well know by now), it's that I find it ridiculous that you need those parts in the first place. Yeah it's usually easy to get the parts, but the very fact that these parts can theoretically be missed is my issue with the system. In no other X game do you really need a part to advance (again, unarmoured), so I find it stupid that all of a sudden it's needed here.
"Can theoretically be missed" implies a casual playthrough by the unfamiliar.  Arguing for the inconvenience of Unarmored X in X6 is entirely pointless, because it is NOT the game's standard form.  Falcon Armor is.  Unarmored exists solely for a challenge.  The only Part which is required to clear the game with Falcon is Jumper.  That and Ice Burst, a special weapon which you seem to consider exempt to your argument, get you through anything.  And all three forms you can possibly come across over the course of the game can get through there unaided.  Ultimate can make it with Ice Burst alone, as well.

Thus your argument applies to a casual run only if somebody is bone-headed enough to have cleared all 8 bosses/gathered 3000 Nightmare Souls without assembling either armor or finding Zero.  Possible but unlikely (especially considering Zero is damn near impossible to miss in Infinity Mijinion's level).  And if you're purposefully doing a minimal run, then it's your responsibility to determine what the minimum requirements are, so the point is moot.

You're arguing on two fronts that are simply not compatible with each other.  Your entire argument centers around unarmored X, which is in and of itself, much less during the game's final stretch, something you should not be doing in X6 unless you're already familiar with it.  That you "can" miss something is irrelevant when you are pursuing an option that exists solely for the purpose of a higher challenge.

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(which you can't do for parts in the middle of a stage, as you obviously know)
The full and sole offender in your argument is at the start of a stage.  And Start/Select doesn't bite.

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Offline Fxeni

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Re: Do you think ZX series would sell more if it was on Wii?
« Reply #82 on: September 07, 2009, 12:45:13 PM »
I just find it annoying that the minimum requirements to get by in X6 actually involve things beyond the very bare minimum (y'know, like basically every other X game). I like doing my unarmoured X buster only runs, but I simply can't do it in X6 for several reasons that we've gone over already (again and again, I add). Enough repetition out of me though, since it's clear my opinion means moot to you.