Topic: How exactly was Wily brought back by the virus?

[Hypershell]

Remembering the doctors entering one of the body's main blood vessels through her groin, a detail of the surgery which she was previously unaware of?  No.

Old Reader's Digest story, unfortunately I cannot track it down at the moment.  You could take it as a soul or you could take it as consciousness (or memory, at least) being spread throughout the entire body.  Doesn't matter much, it simply demonstrates how naive it is to think that the human body, much less mind, is entirely understood.  Science finds new curve-balls all the time (if it didn't, the world would be pretty boring, wouldn't you say?).

Also,

I am not trying to say that to religious people.

I realize one cannot discuss religion on the internet, but for strictly informational purposes:  You do not need to be non-religious, or even non-Christian, to believe that.  Some groups do not consider a soul to be separate from a life; they merely believe in eventual resurrection.  You do not need to be an atheist to believe that you lose all awareness when your body shuts down.

Sort of relevant.

Laughed my ass off.

[Bag of Magic Food]

Old Reader's Digest story,

Was it in one of the glurge sections?

[Hypershell]

No.

Tracked down a similar story, don't know if it's the same person or not.  Includes the old dead-relatives visions, as well, but a false memory of that wouldn't be any far stretch.  Surgical details are the key point of the discussion, as they prove some level of awareness during a "brain dead" condition.

Mind you, I am not suggesting this as evidence of the afterlife as many others jump to.  That one doesn't know of a physiological reason for something doesn't mean that reason doesn't exist.  It simply means we have more to learn, and I am only presenting this to prove the point that the functions of human consciousness are not the open book that Speed stated they are.

[Zan]

Sort of relevant.

Yinlunghuang herself asked me to ask how you still remember this old image. >.>

I meant as in Human flow within the Akashic, to which Human technology also would flows.

Cyberspace. The realm where all data ends up in the end.

mechaniloids, who do not have souls.

Says who?

For the purpose of the story, they are the same.

Besides, like I said before, Rockman has pretty much included ghosts as canon fact. Though it's generally the DASH/EXE/SSR team that does so; DASH is on the same timeline, therefore it applies retroactively.

[Acrosurge]

Says who?

Has it ever been observed or stated that mechaniloids, in any capacity, have equivalent souls to reploids or humans?

[Waifu]

Ghosts, Cyberspace, Digital Souls, Magical Talking Fish? 

[Zan]

Has it ever been observed or stated that mechaniloids, in any capacity, have equivalent souls to reploids or humans?

No. But has the opposite? As of late, mechaniroids are becoming more and more like animals, gaining the ability to reproduce and transfer genetic data. Some have even evolved to gain humanlike intelligence. Furthermore, what about the robots that preceded X? X has worrying, which makes his soul nearly human. But the preceding ones are like X, except without worrying; Are we to suppose that without that single circuit they do not have a soul? Or are we to suppose all life forms, artificial or otherwise have a soul, even if it is far removed from a human's? It's an iffy and blurry boundary at best.

[Align]

As of late, mechaniroids are becoming more and more like animals, gaining the ability to reproduce and transfer genetic data

wat

[Zan]

Start completing your ZX/ZXA disk database. ZXA examples: Nature Mine, Poyoko, Cellworm.

[Align]

I don't even know which those are. They're different from regular mini-factory mechawhatsits then?

[Zechs]

Cyberspace. The realm where all data ends up in the end.

Ends up in the 'END'. Different 'Means' exists for different energies. Unlike a singular cable, more like fiber optic: many cables 'as' one. Or in other words, all energy exhausted is equally transformed into another form.

Has it ever been observed or stated that mechaniloids, in any capacity, have equivalent souls to reploids or humans?

Mechaniloids behave on an 'instinctual' type base. That stated, it can further be correlated to animal instinct behavior. Notice Day of Sigma, the initial Mechaniloid... It wasn't just a dumb piece of hardware. it was observant of it's surroundings. Able to take a cover (hostage), target what it thought to be enemies, and still fight to get itself freed from restraints. They may not be as refined as what we can see within biological creatures, and mimicry within humanoid reploids... But they still are capable of such. Initial Mechaniloids may prove better example for the 'lack' of, latter it isn't such.

[Zan]

Ends up in the 'END'. Different 'Means' exists for different energies. Unlike a singular cable, more like fiber optic: many cables 'as' one. Or in other words, all energy exhausted is equally transformed into another form.

Not quite; cyberspace encompasses ALL substance world phenomenon in the form of a program.

[Acrosurge]

No. But has the opposite? As of late, mechaniroids are becoming more and more like animals, gaining the ability to reproduce and transfer genetic data. Some have even evolved to gain humanlike intelligence. Furthermore, what about the robots that preceded X? X has worrying, which makes his soul nearly human. But the preceding ones are like X, except without worrying; Are we to suppose that without that single circuit they do not have a soul? Or are we to suppose all life forms, artificial or otherwise have a soul, even if it is far removed from a human's? It's an iffy and blurry boundary at best.

I'm making no assumptions on whether a soul must be humanlike for it to qualify as a soul.  I also wouldn't equate X's worrying (or that "circuit") as a prerequisite for a soul.  In my observation of the Mega Man franchise, a "soul" is that which gives a creature (whether human, robot, or something alien) the ability to think, feel, grow, and make decisions independent of prior circumstances or programming.  Robot Masters have blurred those lines, but Mechaniloids have not, to my knowledge.

I like your point about mechaniloids behaving like animals.  This suggests their behavior is instinctual, which serves to highlight the distinctiveness of the reploids, the Robot Masters, and even Rock himself.

[Zan]

Robot Masters have blurred those lines, but Mechaniloids have not, to my knowledge.

But there have been mechaniloids that acted very much like Repliroids. Take those pickaxe guys for example. Then there's the Skull Anchor Mechaniloid from ZXA, its intelligence rivals that of people. We also have Poyoko which reproduced but has devolved in the process. Then we have weird cases like the Mysterys of which it isn't even clear whether or not it's even a Mechaniloid. What's stopping all these weird mechaniloids from evolving and gaining humanlike sentience?

[Zechs]

Not quite; cyberspace encompasses ALL substance world phenomenon in the form of a program.

I wasn't denying that. I was discussing the 'measure' of the program. Since it would flow, not all would flow at the same speeds, same trajectory, same direction with or without flow distortions. All I'm saying is that not all programs would behave in the same method. Since in the material world, not everything is 'equal', thus would apply to the world behind the world.

[Acrosurge]

But there have been mechaniloids that acted very much like Repliroids. Take those pickaxe guys for example. Then there's the Skull Anchor Mechaniloid from ZXA, its intelligence rivals that of people. We also have Poyoko which reproduced but has devolved in the process. Then we have weird cases like the Mysterys of which it isn't even clear whether or not it's even a Mechaniloid. What's stopping all these weird mechaniloids from evolving and gaining humanlike sentience?

Do these Mechaniloids think, feel, and make decisions outside their programming?  If you really want to argue that mechaniloids have souls (as the Mega Man franchise presents it), then you're going to have to define what this "soul" is.  Is it just acting like a human?  Is it having some measure of intelligence?  Is it the ability to reproduce that defines if you have a soul?

[Zechs]

Self-Awareness is a definitive term for such. Recognition of one's self as a whole, and understanding what you feel reacts to the form you possess. Mechaniloids are Self-Aware, and are used (or told what to do) for major work. Like a horse to pull some cargo, a bull for heavy pulling, etc.

Plus, want a good example? ZX. Slither protect mechaniloids... React to humans in passive manor, while reacting to recognizable machines (BioMetal MegaMerged) as aggressive. Knowing when to strike and when not to. Of course is based om prior programming. But even to organic beings, prior programming, or acquired knowledge is the foundation of choice.

[Acrosurge]

Self-Awareness is a definitive term for such. Recognition of one's self as a whole, and understanding what you feel reacts to the form you possess. Mechaniloids are Self-Aware, and are used (or told what to do) for major work. Like a horse to pull some cargo, a bull for heavy pulling, etc.

Plus, want a good example? ZX. Slither protect mechaniloids... React to humans in passive manor, while reacting to recognizable machines (BioMetal MegaMerged) as aggressive. Knowing when to strike and when not to. Of course is based om prior programming. But even to organic beings, prior programming, or acquired knowledge is the foundation of choice.

Um, so you would suggest that horses and bulls are self-aware?

The question remains, could these mechaniloids choose to disregard their programming or orders with no external source acting on them?  According to the Series, Reploids, X, Zero, and some of the Robot Masters seem to be able to do this.  Mechaniloids, on the other hand, have never demonstrated this ability.

Look how far off topic we are.

[Waifu]

So they all have souls or some form of awareness? I feel a little guilty for having to pwn every last one of them but still why X is considered special among the robots? I am trying to avoid any religious implications but it seems that this topic tends a little on the metaphysical side.

[Zechs]

They do have a form of awareness. Met's are another example. They take their time to uncover their shield to either act or take cover again. They are opportunist, which furthers this notion.

X is considered special because he has a recognizable ability to choose and think as a human does. Something a human can recognize is something giving off such human-like ability. Choose to act, choose to not act. Feel guilt for lack of...
Is recognizable to show compassion as well. Many factors...

Um, so you would suggest that horses and bulls are self-aware?

The question remains, could these mechaniloids choose to disregard their programming or orders with no external source acting on them?  According to the Series, Reploids, X, Zero, and some of the Robot Masters seem to be able to do this.  Mechaniloids, on the other hand, have never demonstrated this ability.

And you wouldn't? One must ignore the ignorance of a human as anything but a bias. Humans recognize human communication and behavior, and from that have dictated the lack of recognizable communication/emotion and behavior from anything but human. So that arrogance aside, you cannot make a dictation towards other forms of life. Organic or machine programmed.

They cannot choose to disregard their programming. like a sheltered child. They don't know any better than what they do most commonly. Anything can be swayed into doing something. Sigma proved this using his Virus to control that huge mechaniloid in Day of Sigma. But look at it's behavior. It isn't acting irrationally, it is looking for targets, taking opportune strikes (taking that hostage), knowing it is unable to move and to free itself. These being ignored?

[Flame]

Plus Mets have been shown to have intelligence even far before the X series. Super Adventure Rockman shows that with the Met family. It may not be absolute or on the same level as robots such as Rock or robot masters, but they do have intelligence. by the X series, they can only have gotten smarter.

[Waifu]

I never thought I could emotionally "damage" a robot like Met or hurt its "self esteem" as I assumed a computer has no feelings or emotions but I guess that a pretty much this.  or more like this 

[Flame]

Light is a computer.
in the most technical  and blunt aspect, the whole X series cast, (barring Cain) are computers.

[Zechs]

I never thought I could emotionally "damage" a robot like Met or hurt its "self esteem" as I assumed a computer has no feelings or emotions but I guess that a pretty much this.

Who said anything about emotional damage? Animals within Nature express their emotions on a different level than humans can recognize. So such is rhetorical and rather bias. Self Esteem is a human trait. Such which isn't recognizable within Nature as is. Plus a Computer, one which is an extension to a human as a tool, is aware. Just simply doesn't know anything else. To reiterate a previous comment: much like a sheltered child. Unaware of any other way of existence.

[Zan]

They do have a form of awareness. Met's are another example. They take their time to uncover their shield to either act or take cover again. They are opportunist, which furthers this notion.

Mets aren't always Mechaniloid. Some are Repliroid.

using his Virus to control that huge mechaniloid in Day of Sigma

Did he? It could be, but is not confirmed.