Author Topic: Is this possible?  (Read 12088 times)

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Offline SoulAnimal

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Is this possible?
« on: April 23, 2009, 09:46:07 PM »
From ZX Advent , you could use Model A's A-trans ability and become P , H, F, L,ZX, and the psudodroids and so forth.

Also from ZX , model X could add to any Biometal's and 'enhance' it , like ZX, Hx , Ox, and lots more

I was thinking... if you added model A's A-trans ability , and X , could you make Hx, Fx and the others without having to keep every biometal with you?

-example- Model A uses A-trans to go to model H , and at the same time X merges, Hence making Hx.

Is this possible?  :\

Offline Fxeni

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 10:28:13 PM »
I don't think it would work that way, considering the whole merging aspect kind of needs the biometals to work in the first place.

Offline Zan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 10:30:47 PM »
It'd be better if Model A just beat up all the X forms and took their DNA.

But Trans On is weaker than the original anyway.

Offline Gaia

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 10:31:24 PM »
Leave it to Zan to make a wall of text.

Biometals don't work that way, Model A needs the A-Trans data of the model used first (IE: ZX) for an emulaited double megamerge, I don't think Biometal Model A doesn't double megamerge with others, at all.
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Offline Zan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 10:36:04 PM »
Leave it to Zan to make a wall of text.

Biometals don't work that way, Model A needs the A-Trans data of the model used first (IE: ZX) for an emulaited double megamerge, I don't think Biometal Model A doesn't double megamerge with others, at all.

Model AX is entirely possible.

Also,




See a difference?

Offline Gaia

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 10:51:45 PM »
Also,




See a difference?

They are an entirely seprate bricks, only plenty is on a wall.. Who do you take me for, Naruto?
Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

It got really messy to find my sprite and comic topic, so it's in my sig.

Offline Align

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 11:11:44 PM »
Leave it to Zan to make a wall of text.
Ah... sarcasm.

Offline Fragman

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2009, 11:13:16 AM »
I'm pretty sure Model A can mimic the abilities of other biometals but clearly not their full power.  Thus why it can't use Overdrive or have two charge attacks for each form like the model X double megamerges which are canonically more powerful, so attempting to perform some kind of triple form by copying the data of a double megamerge would probably be quite weak.  Though Model A did copy model ZX which is a double Megamerge. 

Though if Model A did a double Megamerge with model X that would be a whole different story.  Could very well be the ultimate biometal combination.  Plus It would allow Model Ax to Copy Model H and create Model HAX.

AntiBunny

Offline VixyNyan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 12:51:10 PM »
Ah... sarcasm.

For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world, and looses his own soul?
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Offline Acid

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2009, 01:06:16 PM »
I always wondered if that's an actual quote.

Anyone got a bible?

Offline Align

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2009, 01:30:51 PM »
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world, and looses his own soul?
-Matthew 16:26
I believe.

I always wondered if that's an actual quote.

Anyone got a bible?
Google time!
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"What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"

Offline Acid

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2009, 01:40:07 PM »
D'ohoho! Awesome!

Google will buy the Bible next.

Offline Zan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 02:12:23 PM »
Quote
Could very well be the ultimate biometal combination.  Plus It would allow Model Ax to Copy Model H and create Model HAX.

It'd still be just Model H. Only difference would be that the Trans On form isn't weakened compared to the original.

Model A + DNA = weaker copy.

ModelX + Model A = Stronger version of A (Model AX)                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
Model AX + DNA = equally powerful copy.

Model AX could never obtain the DNA of any double megamerge. As such, it's only barely more powerful than A.

Model X is superior in power to Model A and AX, but has less variety than both.

Copying Model X using A would also result in a loss of power, which is weaker than both A and AX. Model AX could never copy X.

Power:
Model X > Model AX > Model A > Trans Model X

Variety:
Model A >/= Model AX > Model X = Trans Model X.

Ain't theoretical models fun?


Offline SoulAnimal

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 03:56:09 PM »

Ain't theoretical models fun?



Not really  ???

So it isnt possible? Damn. It seemed like a awsome combo to me , but whatever   X(  ;O;

Offline Hypershell

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2009, 03:08:12 AM »
-example- Model A uses A-trans to go to model H , and at the same time X merges, Hence making Hx.

Is this possible?  :\
Model A copies the body, not the Biometal.  In other words, when you copy Model H, you are copying MegaMan Model H, not Biometal Model H.  Model A, without a host, can't copy anything.  Model X taps into the secondary Biometal before merging, and has never been seen to add its power to a pre-existing transformation, so unless it has abilities yet unseen, no that cannot be done.  Even if for the sake of argument it could, the HX produced would still be the Model H host's body.

Consider the fact that Model A, after copying Model ZX, cannot produce Model X or Model Z.  This means that Model A is unable to modify the data it copies.

Power:
Model X > Model AX > Model A > Trans Model X

You're using gameplay mechanics over story mechanics, in which a Double Rock On is stronger than EITHER of the two Biometals alone.

And even if we were to use the gameplay logic, you're still wrong.  Model X is not actually more powerful than Model ZX, it's just easier to use.  Model X can break a boss's damage barrier for 11 damage, ZX can do the same for 12.  The difference is ZX requires two attack buttons and being at close range for the second attack, whereas Model X can double-charge a single ranged weapon.

Double Rock Ons in gameplay typically follow the same attack scheme as the singular Biometal with more charge attacks (hence AX should have MORE variety than A, not less), shorter charge times, and besides ZX, an OIS.  I'd expect AX to feature a ZX-level buster shot and an enhanced Homing Shot, perhaps with the ability to lock the same target multiple times (an ability which Model A has in cutscene but not in gameplay).  Perhaps also a Giga Crush that doesn't punish you for collecting BME upgrades.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2009, 08:20:43 PM »
Quote
You're using gameplay mechanics over story mechanics, in which a Double Rock On is stronger than EITHER of the two Biometals alone.

Nonononono, I'm not.

I'm counting the doubles as part of Model X's power just as much as I'm counting the Trans On forms as part of Model A's power.

Discounting those transformations, it is only natural that you get Model AX > Model X > Model A > Trans On X from a single form perspective.

But from a multi form perspective.

Model X has the most potential power as it can bring out the full potential of all livemetals, including AX. AX can copy all singulars at their regular power. A can copy doubles and singulars at less power. A can copy X, which can double Rock On, but that results in exactly the same as A copying a double in the first place. And you know Model A is stronger than any of its Trans forms by definition.

Therefore Model X > Model AX > Model A > Trans Model X

Just look at the forms each has at their theoretical disposal:
Model X: full potential ZX, HX, LX, PX, FX, VX, OX, AX.  Regular Z, H, L, P, F, V, O, bosses.
Model AX: regular Z, H, L, P, F, V, O, bosses.
Model A: weakened Z, H, L, P, F, V, O, X. Weakened ZX, HX, LX, PX, FX, VX, OX.
Weakened X: Weakened ZX, HX, LX, PX, FX, VX, OX.

Actually, I take that back, Model X has the most variety. It can literally become anything that A can also be, but at greater power.

From a game balance perspective, I can almost imagine AX actually lacking a trans on in favor of stronger homing and giga attack. But, just as easily I can expect a Trans On X form to lack the double Rock On. Simplifying the list to:

Model X: full potential ZX, HX, LX, PX, FX, VX, OX, AX. 
Model A: weakened Z, H, L, P, F, V, O, X. Weakened ZX, HX, LX, PX, FX, VX, OX. bosses.

Of course, the main conclusion doesn't change. Once you have the Model A as Rockman Model X, you're pretty much the ultimate Rockman to begin with. AX's possible lack of Trans and the possible inability to use the other singulars are just a couple of points that change how exactly you can use this power.

Offline Align

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2009, 08:37:59 PM »
Quote
Model X: full potential ZX, HX, LX, PX, FX, VX, OX, AX.  Regular Z, H, L, P, F, V, O, bosses.
...Wut? Model X allows direct merging with the single biometals?

Offline Zan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2009, 08:51:59 PM »
That's AX's power. As Model X can become AX, it has that extra trans on ability. Besides, any chosen one can potentially use any livemetal.

Offline VixyNyan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2009, 08:57:22 PM »
Isn't a Double Rock-On the ability to use the base Live Metal (Model X example), to fuse with another Live Metal?
Just like how the Live Metal on "Rockman ZX" ended with an X (Zx, Hx, Fx, Lx, Px, Ox).
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Offline Zan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2009, 09:01:20 PM »
Double Rock On is a Model X specific ability that can grant further power to the other models.

Offline VixyNyan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2009, 09:02:18 PM »
Hm, then I was right. Thank you for that. ^^
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Offline Hypershell

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2009, 02:15:52 AM »
I'm counting the doubles as part of Model X's power just as much as I'm counting the Trans On forms as part of Model A's power.
Riiiiight, I get it now. 8)

Well, since Model AX would require carrying Model A anyway (unless we do a two-host Double Rock On as some badass Vent/Aile fanart has suggested), the Trans On point is kinda moot.

Regarding power output, though, and how Model A compares to the originals, the games haven't gone into great detail on that point.  As we all know boss gameplay mechanics virtually never translate to player mechanics properly, so the main basis for that is Vent/Aile dive-bombing the Model W spider after Model A already copied Model ZX's data.  Similar to the Model ZX fight itself, the implications of that scene can vary greatly depending on what the "canonical" version of that battle is.  To what degree is A-Trans supposed to be utilized during that battle?  Are Grey/Ashe even trying an unfamiliar form so soon?  They're frustrated with the enemy's endurance, but how much damage did they really do?  Lots of room for interpretation there.

There's been no real comparison as to effectiveness of attacks between forms.  One thing we need to consider is that it may not be attack strength that limits A-Trans's effectiveness, but rather power consumption.  It's worth noting how BME is handled differently between the two games, and how it logically ties into the difference in Biometal setups.  Model X, while using Double Rock On, utilizes the Biometal Energy of the other fragment to power the attacks of its respective form, and thus the power consumption of one form has no impact on another.  For Model A, this is not the case.  Since Model A has no actual Biometal fragment to supplement its transformations, all energy used still has to come from Model A alone, and thus a drain on one form affects all others.

So far as including alternate forms goes, though, Model A can copy pretty much anything, combat data permitting, so you can't beat that in the versatility department.  Model X is still limited to other Biometal fragments, but unlike Model A boosts its power beyond that fragment alone.

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Offline SoulAnimal

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2009, 03:09:54 AM »
Okay? I think i get it how its not possible...but i think i like my little fan theory  :)

Well...

.  Plus It would allow Model Ax to Copy Model H and create Model HAX.
Lol HAX  XD

Idk... it still seems a little plausible to me , but couldnt model A use X for extra power on other forms?

( just random question... i dont need a gaint paragraph for this... but i read something on megaman wikia saying originally model A was for Axl , but Albert modified it to make his "his" data , is it true? )


Offline Zan

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2009, 06:00:28 PM »
Quote
Idk... it still seems a little plausible to me , but couldnt model A use X for extra power on other forms?

Only as Double Rock On Model AX.

Quote
( just random question... i dont need a gaint paragraph for this... but i read something on megaman wikia saying originally model A was for Axl , but Albert modified it to make his "his" data , is it true? )

Model A's powers resemble Albert's and it is named Model A after his creator Albert. This is because Albert put the ciphers inside of Model A and because he intended for the host Grey to be his successor. However,
Model A's "identity" and "soul" are not related to Albert.

Quote
So far as including alternate forms goes, though, Model A can copy pretty much anything, combat data permitting, so you can't beat that in the versatility department.  Model X is still limited to other Biometal fragments, but unlike Model A boosts its power beyond that fragment alone.

Well, that's why I think the matter of which Livemetal is better wholly depends on the abilities of a theoretical AX. If "AX"-Trans exists, Model X has all the makings of the ultimate Rockman. When it comes down to it though, these two livemetals have the greatest potential by versatility, but their regular forms are a bit lacking.

I'm not quite sure about Z. You'd expect the legendary heroes to be strong, but X and Z were frowned upon by Prometheus. Similar to the versatility of X and A, Z and by extension ZX might have a lot of untapped potential because of Zero's learning ability.

Offline Bag of Magic Food

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Re: Is this possible?
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2009, 08:34:07 AM »
For some reason I often find myself saying "What does it profiteth a man" whenever I realize that something I'm doing is pointless, even though the grammar's wrong and it's lost all meaningful context.