Author Topic: A Zero remake..  (Read 21248 times)

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2009, 10:13:04 PM »
How does that even work when all of ZERO4 is based on it being the end?

Vile is in charge of Neo Arcadia. Pantheons got replaced. Humans are fleeing from Neo Arcadia. The Big4 and are nowhere to be seen. Neo Arcadia is destroyed, Weil and Zero are killed. The war is over. Humans and Repliroids start to coexist again.

If you mean better as in 'completely different' I'm inclined to disagree even more.

like you said before, Zero 4 was going to be Zero 1.5. Vile was added in later. if there was a one time enemy in place of Vile, and obviously Zero doesn't die in the end, it would've been fine.

speaking of which, Zero's death in Z4 is even more of a copout than the Guardians' deaths in Z3. Zero 4 is proof that closure sucks. it's a frickin lame way to end the story.

for the record, i hate Zero 4's story, but the gameplay is top notch.

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Offline Zan

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2009, 10:42:18 PM »
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like you said before, Zero 4 was going to be Zero 1.5. Vile was added in later. if there was a one time enemy in place of Vile, and obviously Zero doesn't die in the end, it would've been fine.

Not quite, the only thing from Zero1.5 that is part of ZERO4 is the Z-knuckle. Anything else was specifically thought up for ZERO4 in order to lead toward the next series which sets the stage for DASH. The entire plotline is about human and repliroids being brought to the same level and united as well as the recovery of nature. And on Vile's side, the total destruction of nature, a hopeless world, a war without winners or losers, just a bleak land of death. The Neige - Kraft relationship and Operation Ragnarok are all tied around this, climaxing in the destruction of Neo Arcadia, Zero's true motivation and his final glorious moment of heroism.

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speaking of which, Zero's death in Z4 is even more of a copout than the Guardians' deaths in Z3. Zero 4 is proof that closure sucks. it's a frickin lame way to end the story.

Copout? ZERO4 had literally the most epic way to take out a main character ever. After his two revivals, this was entirely necessary to be believable. Despite that imminent death, ZERO shined like a true hero. In contrast to the X-bioroids, he got that final moment, and it was his finest moment.

"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero... I have always only fought for the people I believe in. I won't hesitate... If an enemy appears in front of me, I will destroy it!"

Full circle right there, just perfect.

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2009, 10:51:18 PM »
doesn't do a damn thing for me. the buildup was lame. the final boss fight was pretty underwhelming. and the ending is just baw. it shows more of the aftermath of the death than it needs to, and not enough of the death itself. it's a cheap and lazy way to kill off a character. Ciel crying her eyes out alone does not do the job. at least show a picture of Ragnarok crashing with a big explosion. then it might mean something.

at least they acknowledged Zero's death here, unlike Zero 3...

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Offline Align

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2009, 12:21:50 AM »
If you call blowing up with a giant space station a cheap copout, nothing will make you happy.

Offline Rock Bomb

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2009, 12:44:26 AM »
This is relevant


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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2009, 01:44:59 AM »
correct me if i'm wrong, but don't you only see a still image of Ragnarok reentering Earth's atmosphere? based off that, how can you be so sure he died from that? he could've survived that somehow. like jumping off the damn thing before hand. and he did survive the same explosion that killed Harpy, Levi, and Fafapalooza.

then again, he was supposed to have died in a boss explosion all the way back in X5.

it's just a lazy way to kill the guy off. it feels like it was a last minute decision for Zero 4 to be The End. the execution is just off.

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Offline Night

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2009, 01:56:23 AM »
Which asks the question: What would best tell what is currently happening in the storyline by using a low graphic quality cutscene that is hindered by limited data storage space on the gameboy advance?

A. unidentifiable pieces of a possible orbital space cannon falling to earth?

-or-

B. A Giant Orbital Space Cannon Falling To Earth!

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2009, 01:58:20 AM »
option B because each word is capitalized.

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Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2009, 02:00:58 AM »
Kids, remember the saying: there is nothing wrong with Mega Man - just you thinking there is something wrong with Mega Man.

Actually I just came up with it but [tornado fang] that.

Either way I felt Z4 was the most fun of the entire Zero series to me, gameplay-wise. The reason I see people putting Z3 in an altar most of the time, the Omega debacle, is way overrated in my opinion and I liked it better when it was part of Saber Marionette and not Mega Man. In Z4 I got to blow up a lot of freaky looking giant bots who didn't NEED to have oooooh, stoooooooory reeeelevannnnce (yawn) - and well, [tornado fang] me, hold tight:
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This is exactly why people don't play MM for it's story.

I also liked the Z-Knuckle a good lot and I felt the soundtrack was really the best of all the four games.
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The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
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a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2009, 02:03:44 AM »
never have i seen so much truth in one post. Omega is REALLY overrated.

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Offline Zx

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2009, 02:07:10 AM »
They should put the 4 games into one for a remake.
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Offline Jericho

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2009, 02:23:15 AM »
never have i seen so much truth in one post. Omega is REALLY overrated.

Agreed, but my reason for putting Z3 over 4 is purely for gameplay reasons. More missions, ultimate foot chip, & Copy X MK II > Z4 for me. XD

Offline Hypershell

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2009, 02:35:00 AM »
If you call blowing up with a giant space station a cheap copout, nothing will make you happy.
Damn straight.

Z4's death was EASILY the best.  If you want a cop-out, take a look at X5, where Zero dies in a BOSS EXPLOSION with no regard as to proximity.  Even the Guardian deaths in Z3 weren't that bad, despite not even being intended when the game was released, at least then you could say there was a wild card in X and the Mother Elf.  And X1 is only passable due to the lack of attention given to presentation for the era (and the fact that Zero's character as we know him today was not yet established).  Not only does Vile have no business topping him in battle, but by no means should it ever be necessary to self-destruct when you've got a clear shot at the back of someone's head.

In Z4 Zero got a proper heroic sendoff.  A little over-the-top, yes, but kinda necessary to do the best job of convincing the player that it was for real (which is kinda an exercise in futility after the X-series).  That was the only time I ever felt satisfied seeing Zero go.

Either way I felt Z4 was the most fun of the entire Zero series to me, gameplay-wise. The reason I see people putting Z3 in an altar most of the time, the Omega debacle, is way overrated in my opinion and I liked it better when it was part of Saber Marionette and not Mega Man. In Z4 I got to blow up a lot of freaky looking giant bots who didn't NEED to have oooooh, stoooooooory reeeelevannnnce (yawn) - and well, [tornado fang] me, hold tight:
To hell with Omega, I put Z3 on an altar because of FRIKKIN THROW BLADE!!!

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and I felt the soundtrack was really the best of all the four games.
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Offline Galappan

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2009, 02:42:33 AM »
I don't like 3D games in general so let the Z Series the way it is. Looking at the game & artworks it was truly well planned & made IMO. The least I would want is an Elf War OVA.

I actually played Z4 the most. There's lot of gameplay variety that I can exploit. And after reading every single character dialogue made me realize how good the story of Z4 is.

Offline Rodrigo Shin

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2009, 03:15:39 AM »
To hell with Omega, I put Z3 on an altar because of FRIKKIN THROW BLADE!!!
Before someone gets me wrong, let me just put my quote in perspective:
The reason I see people putting Z3 in an altar most of the time

And that's what I saw from way back when, when Z3 filled the nonexistant plot-hole of X6's copy body (yeah, because X6 made it utterly obvious it was a "copy" body. Whatever), Mother Elf, Guardians, Elf Waaaaaarrghs, what's the matter, too DEEP for you?, etc.

I don't have a problem with people liking it the best of the Zero series (what, am I going to dictate what people think about the games now), but for the reasons above, sorry, that just doesn't cut it for me.
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The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions
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a retcon is a last resort to erase a contradiction
Guys, please let me know when did Gwen Stacy getting retroactively impregnated with Goblin Twins solve any contradiction whatsoever and didn't create a whole set of new ones. TTFN

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Offline Gauntlet101010

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2009, 05:32:10 AM »
I try to just forget that X6 has a tie in to the Zero series.  It never worked.  In Z1 Zero wasn't in a capsule at all and didn't look like his X series self.  Moreover, Omega didn't look like X-series Zero either.  It's one of those on-paper things which sounds really good, but just ends up being confusing.

Offline Flame

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2009, 05:40:56 AM »
artistic freedom. plus, X6's sealing is not the one Ciel finds him in. the X6 sealing is the first seal, and the one "shown" in Z1 was the Telos interpreted second seal. remember, in the original seal he was to be asleep for 102 years, to "remove a component". the second seal was supposed to be permanent. as also shown in RTRZ, where Zero's disembodied voice tells Ciel outside of the room to "leave him alone", and questions why she wishes to awaken him Telos itself asserted that he was basically taking himself out of the way.

also, its not jst omega that makes 3 so great, its the story, gameplay, weapons, abilities, and the much cleaner artwork the cut scenes and mugshots are made from, in comparison to 1 & 2. the recoil rod was brilliant, and its ex skills were real good. the story was finally at a climax, and just so potent. explaining almost everything that was needed to know. and the characters were really well played out this time around.
this time around, Harpuia really made me think of the mental aspect of X he is based from. (X's sharpness and wisdom)

and the music was incredible, reflecting the moods really well. Omea is the LASt factor in it all. just a byproduct of the story.
...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Offline Gauntlet101010

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2009, 05:43:42 AM »
artistic freedom. plus, X6's sealing is not the one Ciel finds him in. the X6 sealing is the first seal, and the one "shown" in Z1 was the Telos interpreted second seal. remember, in the original seal he was to be asleep for 102 years, to "remove a component". the second seal was supposed to be permanent. as also shown in RTRZ, where Zero's disembodied voice tells Ciel outside of the room to "leave him alone", and questions why she wishes to awaken him Telos itself asserted that he was basically taking himself out of the way.

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It's one of those on-paper things which sounds really good, but just ends up being confusing.

-u-' That's not less confusing.  You don't need to explain it; I always knew what ws up.  But, still ... I call it like I see it.

Offline Align

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2009, 02:06:21 PM »
correct me if i'm wrong, but don't you only see a still image of Ragnarok reentering Earth's atmosphere? based off that, how can you be so sure he died from that? he could've survived that somehow. like jumping off the damn thing before hand.
And surviving atmospheric reentry? Unlikely.
(but not impossible; if they had decided to go that way, at least)
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and he did survive the same explosion that killed Harpy, Levi, and Fafapalooza.
Well, the Mother Elf warped him out. But dying in a boss explosion IS a pretty lame way to go.

Offline Zan

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2009, 05:43:03 PM »
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In Z1 Zero wasn't in a capsule at all and didn't look like his X series self.

Just wondering, X5 works better?

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explaining almost everything that was needed to know.

Except the part where Omega is the sealed Zero and the copy sealed himself again?

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Well, the Mother Elf warped him out. But dying in a boss explosion IS a pretty lame way to go.

It wouldn't be lame if they did it X1 Zero or ZERO1 Phantom style

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Offline Gauntlet101010

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2009, 06:26:45 PM »
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Just wonder, X5 works better?

Absolutely.  I mean, forget about the fix they made to fit X6's ending in there for a minute and just focus on X5 and Z1.  X5 shows Zero mysteriously disappearing and Z1 shows Zero in a mysterious room in a new body.  Zero only has to mysteriously disappear once in this version ... and who knows what happened to him then?  X5 showed him totally destroyed too, so it makes sense that he might look different after his mysterious repairs.

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2009, 06:54:37 PM »
as shitty as X5's ending is, i agree that it does handle Zero's death better than Z4.

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Offline Zan

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2009, 08:59:04 PM »
as shitty as X5's ending is, i agree that it does handle Zero's death better than Z4.

Who other than yourself are you agreeing with?

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Offline Fxeni

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2009, 09:33:51 PM »
I guess I'm one of the few that actually liked Z4 a bit more than the others, for whatever reason. I guess I liked the flow of some of the levels a bit more. Also, the music was awesome.

Offline Acid

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Re: A Zero remake..
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2009, 10:10:45 PM »
You and me, FX. You and me.

Kraft/Craft was cool too.