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26

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 23, 2011, 07:05:31 PM »

How about, you know, part 2?

Same. Story just gets bigger and the world doesn't seem as fun.

Nothing to call home about, just a standard, good game.

27

Gaming / Re: Talk about Sonic

« on: October 23, 2011, 06:00:19 PM »

My point exactly: Sonic being solo has no correlation to quality.
This isn't fun anymore.  You make it too easy.

It features friends in the 2D levels.

And just because there's co-op AI, it doesn't mean they're fit for gameplay. So far, I've heard they're used for certain co-op actions and such.

28

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 23, 2011, 05:40:10 PM »

When you quote this:

IN MLP, each character has to be stuck with a single liking/characteristic, as per the series' concept.

And forget to quote this:

. But that doesn't make them any less limited. They talk normally and like any other person would. Something that is very tough to achieve with any other kids' show, specially one of that kind.

Ends the argument with the fact that I can't reason with you, due to you replying to only what suits your interests, and conveniently forgetting the "But..." in my argument, countering the simplicity in the show.

I'll just finish this by saying: I played Legends. Nice game. Not a big deal in terms of story. Just like any kids' anime. MLP? Excuse me by saying it works a little better than that. And yes, around 5 episodes or so, and not repeated viewings.

Honestly, Legends gets too much of a reputation for its own good. It's with stuff like this that I sometimes think Capcom was right in throwing it down the shitter.

29

Gaming / Re: Sonic Generations (360, PS3, 3DS) - Holiday 2011

« on: October 23, 2011, 05:28:40 PM »

You had to have all seven emeralds PLUS get all the red rings in any stage you wanted Super Sonic in, in Colors.

You had to have all the red rings in an area to gain access to the emerald stages to begin with, so it's kinda the same thing.

30

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 23, 2011, 01:33:28 PM »

The forum's dead and there's nothing else to do. There's only so many times I can go back in time, give time machine blueprints to my younger self and then have anal before it becomes boring. So I argue with Mr Right Analogless there for fun.

Now I'm a go to my kitchen and make some delicious codfish balls.


Why? Because I'M BORED AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE! (movie/media buffs will get it)

31

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 23, 2011, 10:27:36 AM »

It´s not about being any sort of masterpiece of narration, it´s about being exactly what it is meant to be. A "90's lighthearted anime for kids," ok, I wouldn't want it any other way.  Being "basic" is not a fault here, it's a charm.

The way you described it as, and the words you used, made it the most stuck-up description of a game I have ever seen in my life. It's a lighthearted anime game. Japan churns out tons of them a year. Story-wise and ambient-wise, it's got hundreds of the same JRPG characteristics you've seen in many, many other games. Even with the obligatory "I don't love you baka!" and shower scene peek stereotypes.

Very much agreed.  This discussion seems to keep jumping back and forth on what grounds we're gauging a story by.  Is it an epic masterpiece?   Are its characters intelligent?  Are its characters free from stereotype?  Those are three completely different questions.

My Little Pony has intelligent characters.  Its story is not an epic masterpiece, nor is it meant to be by any means.  Many of its character types exist in countless shows/stories; that doesn't matter (tropes are tools), what matters is that MLP does them well.

So Tron Bonne is a tsundere, so what?  Why shouldn't she be, how else is a teenage pirate going to handle a crush on the hero?  Besides, that's not her defining characteristic; her loyalty to her brothers supersedes her feelings for Trigger (seen very clearly in L1 when the Gesselschaft is destroyed).

My point is completely different. Listen next time. Stereotypes and intelligence notwithstanding, I'm talking about simple narrative, dialogue and characterization. IN MLP, each character has to be stuck with a single liking/characteristic, as per the series' concept. But that doesn't make them any less limited. They talk normally and like any other person would. Something that is very tough to achieve with any other kids' show, specially one of that kind.

And tropes are not building blocks. They're characteristics of common shows that people started noticing, and started including as a list. There are good ways to use characteristics commonly used in stories and there are bad ways to use them. MLP's characters are founded in stereotypes, but they actually grow from that, and are given new development in almost every episode. Legends is a JRPG in terms of story. I've never said that was bad, but it's not the shining bright example everyone says it is. It's merely ANOTHER game in the endless waves of new japanese JRPGs every year.

(TV Tropes is mostly bullshit, with whiny kids arguing stuff that is a matter of perspective rather than a matter of actual fact. I've spent some time in it, and although we can list a "trope" as something factual, please don't use that site to get any kind of evidence other than people arguing that Count Chocula from the G1 cereal box was scarier, and crap like that. It's like manchild central in there.)

32

Gaming / Re: Sonic Generations (360, PS3, 3DS) - Holiday 2011

« on: October 23, 2011, 10:13:51 AM »

oooooh man, that was great. That was so great.

Hmm. so theres a red ring achievement and a "Treasure Hunter" one that shows the emeralds...

He mentioned that the red rings give you "unlockables" is it possible that they ARENT for Supersonic here? I sure hope so.

There's a cauge that checks how many emeralds you have, so no, they most probably aren't for Super Sonic here.

33

Gaming / Re: Talk about Sonic

« on: October 23, 2011, 10:01:09 AM »

That's what you said about Colors.  And someone probably said the same thing about STH4 before that.  And Unleashed.  And Secret Rings.

Once upon a time, new Sonic characters did not mandate entirely new gameplay modes.  They had a few unique tricks, adding an individual flair, but a single gameplay style was kept in constant focus.  We called it S3&K, and it was one of the best damn games of its generation.  I'm still not sure why Sega thinks that concept only applies to 2D.

Colors was a decent game, but it wasn't the kind of game to put Sonic in the good public eye again. The rest sucked. Sonic hasn't been "fixed" yet. And in this kind of game, I really don't know how they would stick in other friends in levels with the boost mechanic, and [parasitic bomb] only Sonic should be able to do.

Generations DOES feature friends in levels. As co-op AIs and racing partners, probably as a test ground for something in the future. So quit whining. They're gonna add friends when they're ready, and when it fits the [tornado fang]ing game they're working on. Not sooner.

34

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 23, 2011, 03:26:08 AM »

I don´t think you quite get what Legends is and is meant to be. As derivative as you may consider it, it captures an undeniable light-hearted charm with immense underlying depth. The world of Legends is one of many facets, all seamlessly transitioned and perfectly integrated: from the soothing tranquility of the overworld to the oppressive atmosphere within the ruins, from the wacky comedic antics of the cast to the epic climax of the story. Very few other series, if any, have captured this like Legends did.

Yes, it is the greatest masterpiece ever composed by humanity, how could I forget?

It's a [tornado fang]ing 90s lighthearted anime for kids. Get over it. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's basic, and if you think it's an example of narrative genius, I feel sorry for you.

35

Gaming / Re: Talk about Sonic

« on: October 23, 2011, 12:12:05 AM »

Wasn't there a cameo of Mighty or someone in Generations? Maybe they're hinting at bringing them back at some point.

He's got "missing" posters in City Escape.

And I think Sega's got the right idea. They're focusing all of their attention on SONIC first, and after he's fixed with this game, they'll move on to friends and such.

36

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 22, 2011, 10:04:27 PM »

I saw nothing in your Jak & Daxter video that was any better.  Even being unfamiliar with the game the exposition is still very obvious.  Legends generally does a better job than that of letting the characters be who they are.  And the Bonnes are about as three-dimensional as villains get, balancing their survival, their pride, and oddly enough their moral compass, thoughout most of the games, especially Legends 2.

In the series, Misadventures is probably the most guilty of excessive exposition, due to the majority of the game being about coming up with ransom money.

Gaming narratives are a whole other beast than TV/movies in that part of their inherent role is justifying the game's structure, or at the very possibly least keeping an appropriate pace with it.  And inevitably there's always something in game structure that flies in the face of what a solid narrative-for-the-sake-of-narrative should be.  If the narrative fails to tie to the gameplay properly, the game comes off as anticlimactic (case in point: Metroid Other M).

Nope. Honestly, Jak & Daxter games have the quality of being as three-dimensional as they can get, with a kind of story that never strays too far away from a typical narrative, but characters keep building upon their personality and talk as anyone else would in their situation. While Legends never gets any better than say... a Digimon anime. I dunno if it's the translation's fault, or the fact that it's an old game, but it sounds as cookie-cutter and linear as it can be, and Tron's just the typical tsundere anime girl character. They just... stand there and fit stereotypes, and spit out the same old tired anime dialogue we see in every anime ever. It's not bad, it's just derivative, the same as every other game out there, and it's not INTERESTING.

It's a trend in games. In any other kind of media, that type of story just wouldn't be recognized as anything amazing. And it's not about being different beasts, it's about a story being able to fit the game well. It's about writers recognizing that they have to work with the programmers, the same way movie writers work with the directors. They have to know what kind of storyy to write, in what structure and in what way. If you look at a story like Portal, you'll see an AMAZING narrative that fits the genre perfectly. Same with Deus Ex, for example, or Alan Wake. These are examples of story being a part of the game, and not just something to accompany the game. The story's made FOR the events of the game, and fits in perfectly with the gameplay mechanics.

In games like Sonic and Mario, story isn't necessary. It's an excuse to get you into the action. None of the scenarios even fit what should turn out in the story, so games that have little story to begin with benefit from it. Level design doesn't really accompany what should have been set in the story, and there's a clear distinction between the game world and what happens in the story.

37

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 22, 2011, 11:00:25 AM »

I never made any such comparison to My Little Poly.  You did.  I repeated your adjectives in terms of character behavior (and yeah, I really need to exclude Tails and Amy from that thought), that doesn't mean I consider SA2's narrative comparable to MLP's on the whole.  Admittedly, I've seen only the first episode of MLP, but comparing a game story to a TV series story is a bit of an uphill battle anyway, seeings how a video game narrative generally does not carry the same weight as a television narrative.  For that reason I would prefer to keep discussions of video game story quality within the context of video games.

You know, we got to that discussion on the grounds of justifying how cute-and-cuddly atmospheres can trounce the dark/gritty ones.  But really, Mega Man Legends in and of itself is one of the first and best examples I would think of in terms of intelligent video game characters that talk to each other and not their audience.  Even something as trivial as a boss's weak point can lead to some amusing lines in those games (case in point: Marlwolf).

I was using it as the general basis for maturity, realism and overall personality in terms of gaming, after it was the only subject used. By following up the post and justifying the two franchises, you're undoubtly making the same comparison.

My problem with video game narrative, is how bad it can be if you stray far off from recent times, and even so, there are some recent VERY heavy examples of awful story. Not only that, but voices can be bad, there are awkward pauses, the camera angles are weird and the story and dialogue can be quite horrible sometimes. Aside from Hideo Kojima, there are few japanese developers who are as cinematically experient, sadly.

I would honestly compare Legends' plot and dialogue to a typical kids' anime. There's quite alot of exposition, tons of it actually, but there's quite a few character moments as well. It's far from anyone acting realistically, but it's a start.

I wish gaming narratives had higher standards. When I look at what's probably the best story in a game saga, Legacy of Kain, I see tons of exposition, but never unjustified. It's all wrapped in tightly with the plot, and the dialogue is extremely good. Amazing even, because all of it is relevant. You won't find any kind of "villain mocking and monologuing" moments by using the same "patheti~c!" adjectives we all know. Nor is there anyone simply acting like they're too cool for school by trying to be deep. All things have a purpose, and the expository opening for any new players does a fine job of bringing everyone up to speed, as well as being awesome. Amy Hennig is a genius.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNo-hfY-hKg&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]

38

Off The Wall / Re: Latest Buys

« on: October 22, 2011, 10:44:24 AM »

Pick up the can. Only throw it back and run through the opening.

39

Off The Wall / Re: See ya later!/Welcome back!

« on: October 22, 2011, 10:23:18 AM »

One last thing.

Flame, thank you.
I ate those words like I should.

I want to say, I'm sorry for how I acted, I was wrong.
I'm WORSE than I was before!

I'm gone, but I think I'll come back when I'm much better than this.

Again, Flame thank you...
Without that, I wouldn't have learned anything today about other peoples feelings towards me and what I'm doing to make tham NOT post.

I'll clean up my mess now, then leave.

Just stop making big deals out of it and making [parasitic bomb] so personal.

And turning threads into cries for attention after someone doesn't reply to you.

40

Off The Wall / Re: The DeLorean fulfils it's destiny with Electric version

« on: October 22, 2011, 02:34:47 AM »

If people actually start buying DeLoreans and it starts being a real and reputable car company, it would be the greatest thing ever.

41

Off The Wall / Re: Latest Buys

« on: October 22, 2011, 02:33:06 AM »

The Lion King on Blu-Ray as an X-Mas gift to my sister.

Half-Life 2 as per my friend's insistence. Tried to play the Synergy co-op mod with him, but his ping was around 900 despite living maybe a few kilometres away.

The Max Payne Bundle on Steam. Was on sale for about 1/4 the price, so I figured 'sure why not'.

Amazing buys, but for the love of all, play those VANILLA first time 'round. No mods. All part of the experience.

42

Off The Wall / Re: See ya later!/Welcome back!

« on: October 22, 2011, 02:32:07 AM »

I honestly wish I could stay here but I feel as if something is just eating me up here.

This might be the last time you guys see me, if maybe a little compassion was thrown my way...
no... none of you can help, it'll only make it worse.

This dragon just really wanted to make a few friends here and talk freely about Rockman.
but it seems those days have long passed.

The epic times are gone.
Everyone is away.
And I just think I'm not welcome here anymore.

But I won't forget the time I spent here.
I'll keep a bookmark on my Firefox of the front page as a constant reminder of you guys.

bye...

[tornado fang] off, drama queen.

43

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 22, 2011, 02:23:50 AM »

I guess I should have clarified and said that SA2 covers both ends of the spectrum (but then, who needs to be told when they're supposed to [sonic slicer] about Sonic?).  Sonic and Eggman have some pretty great dialogue, but there are a lot of cringe-worthy lines from the likes of Tails and Amy.

A few characters have decent dialogue. Rouge, for example, seems to have good lines overall, even though she probably has the least amount of speaking lines out of the entire cast. But it's a big difference between it and the rest of the entire game.

Surprisingly, the dialogue picks up a bit in the last story and it turns out passable.

...my problem with your comparison, was that you compared it (SA2 being one of my favorite games of all time, believe me, I have nothing but praise for it for the right reasons) to one of the greatest examples of writing in a kids' show that I have ever seen in my life. Sonic Adventure 2 may be good in an industry where most japanese games are given incredibly cringe-worthy dialogue I find unfitting to any culture, but compared to MLP, where comedy coexists with good characterization and really good behavior and dialogue from characters, it's [parasitic bomb]. Because in SA2, I don't really see any of the character's personalities beyond their onedimentionality, and the stuff they say when it's necessary. In MLP, I see the purpose each character fulfills, as well as them having their own place and influence in the world around them. I am able to find a well-weaved narrative and realistic characters in a god damn girls' show about pink magical ponies.

44

Entertainment / Re: DC Animated Universe Thread

« on: October 22, 2011, 02:18:36 AM »

DiMaggio had quite a really good grip on Joker. He channeled more Nicholson Joker than Hamill, but it felt like a welcome return.

45

Gaming / Re: Talk about Sonic

« on: October 22, 2011, 02:11:23 AM »

Because we all are obviously versed in bullshit weeaboo terminology of games like Toehoe.

46

Gaming / Re: Talk about Sonic

« on: October 21, 2011, 03:12:20 PM »

[On-Topic]There sure is a lot of Mimas throughout the Sonic series.
what do you guys think will-
...
Nevermind, I don't wanna know anymore...

Understand something.

This thread is not about you. It is about a topic. If you want, talk about that topic, or things that topic might occur. But if you just want to make it about people not paying attention to you, get the [tornado fang] out, with the reaction images that don't fit in and with the gigantic ellipsis.

And what the hell's a mima?

47

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 21, 2011, 04:56:34 AM »

As for Sonic, I'll stick to the usual "Adventure 2 was golden" footnote.  There was some great dialogue in that game.

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA

In relation to other INCREDIBLY corny and seriously derangedly retarded dialogue that other games usually seem to have... yes, it was decent. But it had few examples. While the rest was completely forced and really bad. Overexposition for kids, no interesting exchanges except for the Shadow/Rouge dialogue, and while some characters show little about what's happening while relying on simple events to follow it, others go "AMY IS WITH EGGMAN. I MUST RESCUE AMY. BECAUSE SHE IS IN DANGER. BECAUSE EGGMAN IS EVIL. GET IT KIDS?" Pretty much everyone behaves as if they were meeting for the first time, the awkward pauses and the crazy [parasitic bomb] that happens in certain parts of the dialogue is unforgivable.

But yes, it IS standard for videogame dialogue to be cringeworthy most of the time. The way I'm comparing it to MLP, is because MLP characters actually act like normal individuals. While Sonic, Mario and many other characters act like they're reading from a damn script, trying to act out a very badly-paid play written by high schooler fan fiction artists.

Let's compare some stuff:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4V5pKF7gyM&feature=related[/youtube]
Repetitious exposition, characters seeming like they want to show every single detail several times so that kiddies won't miss it, and don't leave any kind of logic to the people watching it. They address the audience, not each other. They are telling a story instead of talking.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD97UvLnluk&feature=related[/youtube]
See, here, you got JUST enough exposition without seeming like they're talking to the audience, plus, it's incorporated INTO the dialogue. They speak to the characters, and tell them what they need to know, while revealing their personalities and quirks and not devolving into simply exposition mouths.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJ3gghVtVs[/youtube]
In comparison, this scene would be "WHY ARE YOU ACTING CRAZY AND NONSENSICAL WHEN YOU SEE THAT I AM SUFFERING IMMEDIATE DANGER FROM THIS FLOCK OF CREATURES PINKIE PIE? I AM RARITY AND I AM IN DANGER"

48

Off The Wall / Re: Reposted Picture Thread (56K Warning)

« on: October 21, 2011, 04:32:12 AM »

They should team up. Maybe between the two groups they can finally cook up a plan that almost works.

Then it all went to hell once Scar got doubles.

49

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 21, 2011, 02:17:11 AM »

Well, there's an explanation for EVERYTHING, and MLP is just one of those things that appeased to nearly everyone, as they had a gun pointed to their heads by the fans.

Yeah, but it gives capcom some time to look back on those and go the Sonic route, as many of those were a slightly risky chance at trying something new.

The reason MLP is so successful, is because it's one of the only franchises whose characters actually act like normal, intelligent beings. Few cute videogame franchises have even managed to do that. Heck, the only one that comes to mind is probably Jak & Daxter (nope, both Sly and Ratchet are either too comedy, or too classic-pastiche.) Mario and Sonic will probably never have a single game where they treat kids like normal human beings instead of children who are watching a story for the first time.

Also, it would have given Capcom a way to go the Sonic route if those games weren't just gambles from a far-gone age, and if Capcom wasn't so reticent to change anything in the GOOD WAY nowadays.

50

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: October 21, 2011, 01:32:15 AM »

FPS/Story-led Choice game = Super Adventure Rockman, Racer = Battle and Chase, Fighting = Mahvel vs Capcom, Schmup = Rush Marine/MMV Rush Adapter Segment.. Minigame Collection = WarioWare (Technically? There's a ton of Mega Man-Themed minigames so I guess capcom could release a pack..)

The list goes on. Half of those has been done already.

Well, they've tried to go with the Super Sentai plot in ZX/Star Force.. although Star Force was more Super Sentai-ish plot wise, since they had everything that made a Super Sentai plot obvious and possible for an anime adaption.

I'd say we take the grimdark route.. but look what happened to Bomberman, but it's well worth the risk since gamers are growing out of the cute and cuddly phase.

Many of those weren't even good. =P