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Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => X => Topic started by: zuschzero on August 10, 2012, 10:23:33 PM

Title: X4 is really overrated
Post by: zuschzero on August 10, 2012, 10:23:33 PM
After played X4 a couple of times, I have to say I have a hard time understanding what is so good about X4.

Frost Walrus and Cyber Peacock are the only interesting levels, I admit that Split Mushroom also has some moments, but the rest of the stages are very generic. Magma Dragoon is maybe the worst, 70% of the stage is just about dodging magma meteors.
The boss battles commutes from average to good, but nothing outstanding.
Most of the uncharged weapons seems very weak.
The fortress levels are just half-stages, they're so short.

Capcom underutilized the Playstation's capabilities when created this game. X2 offers a lot more, and that's just a SNES game.

What do you think? Valid points or not?
Title: Mega Man is really overrated
Post by: Archer on August 10, 2012, 10:32:52 PM
I think the whole Mega Man series as a whole is overrated, so I guess I agree with you to a point.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Gaia on August 11, 2012, 02:21:51 AM
you don't say

I do agree with you on some merits about it being overrated, story is okay at best (feels like an anime episode at best with villain of the week and what-have-you), and sometimes getting the light capsules were annoying at times. I also bet people only played it for the Zero experience, as for some reason.

But in general.. eeeeehhh. I think Mega Man's not the hot topic in the american gaming industry like he was during his 1990s-2006/8 run. But I guess it can be said for many franchises no?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on August 11, 2012, 03:48:59 AM
Zero was pretty much SUPA HARD CHALLENGE MODE since only 4 mavericks actually had weaknesses at least X5 and the other games made it fair for him.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on August 11, 2012, 06:19:51 AM
It's five.  Frost Walrus, Jet Stingray, Split Mushroom, Cyber Peacock, and Storm Owl.

I don't think X4 is underrated in the least, most of zz's points are subjective.  I REALLY don't see anything that X2 offers that X4 doesn't.  What I will say, though, is that X4 *IS* perhaps the single easiest main series X game, but I don't consider challenge to be a measure of quality.

It's true that Zero's debut in and of itself gives the game quite a highlight, but I would also say that X4 is of a slightly higher caliber than its PS1 follow-ups in terms of visuals, overall music, and the balance and pacing of boss battles.  It was the last to use the "traditional" X-series formula of relying strictly on capsules and heart tanks before later games shook things up.  It also happens to have the single greatest helmet upgrade ever; you can't not love infinite Twin Slasher.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 11, 2012, 07:34:35 AM
It's true that Zero's debut in and of itself gives the game quite a highlight, but I would also say that X4 is of a slightly higher caliber than its PS1 follow-ups in terms of visuals, overall music, and the balance and pacing of boss battles. 

I definitely disagree on the "overall music" part of X4. I consider X4 to be one of the weakest X series soundtracks. I thought both X5 & X6 had much better instrument decisions. X4 was a bit too high pitched, the boss battle themes did absolutely nothing for me, and the final boss stages were also pretty weak as well. I mean, X5 I can argue is not for everyone, but X6 had a fantastic soundtrack especially compared to X4.

I wish X had a better story line in X4 as well. Other than that and the soundtrack, the game itself is pretty damn solid.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: zuschzero on August 11, 2012, 12:00:42 PM
I REALLY don't see anything that X2 offers that X4 doesn't.

X2 has the best level design IMO, dozens of stuffs on the stages (chasing lava, warning system, weather control etc.)
Every boss has some interesting or funny moves (W. Gator drills holes into the wall, O. Ostrich runs in the background, M. Centipede take your abilities etc.)
Almost every weapon is useful in numerous ways, but I admit that the arsenal in X1 is better.

That's what X4 doesn't seem to offer.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: megaman24681012 on August 11, 2012, 04:41:12 PM
Oh, another of these "so-and-so is overrated" threads other less intelligent forums have used to death.

In other news, people have opinions.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: AquaTeamV3 on August 13, 2012, 05:02:38 AM
X4 is pretty fun, but the story does leave a little to be desired, particularly when it comes to X.  I think the main draw I have with X4 lies in the stage design of the last few levels.  I mean, you trek through 8 stages that are fairly large and well-designed.  Then after that you get to Space Port, which is a fun yet short stage.  Then you only get one Final Weapon stage (another short one) before the "re-fight" stage.  It's just underwhelming; there really should have been an expansion on the final levels.

Other complaint would be that X4's a little too easy, although Ugly Head Sigma's debris attack almost makes up for that in itself.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 13, 2012, 06:50:12 PM
Final Sigma is pretty tough IMO. Gave me such a [tornado fang]ing hard time. ESPECIALLY giant ugly head Sigma. Not to mention, "hey, two lifebars!"

I have a soft spot for X4 because it's the last X game to follow the style of X1-3, in aesthetics and [parasitic bomb], before X5 expanded the universe and switched things up a bit.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: AquaTeamV3 on August 13, 2012, 07:19:34 PM
I dunno, Big Gun Sigma is a cakewalk because verything is so telegraphed.  First 2 forms are easy too because it's entirely your fault if they break out the harder attacks (Reaper Sigma orbs and letting the scythe hit the floor in the 2nd form).  I just think that the debris attack is so OP that it bumps up the difficulty alone.  You can't really dodge it consistently (have fun if it comes out of the floor) and there's no way to manipulate him into using the wind attack.  I'd say it's worse than X5's purple block attack TBH.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Gaia on August 13, 2012, 09:11:33 PM
I dunno, Big Gun Sigma is a cakewalk because verything is so telegraphed.  First 2 forms are easy too because it's entirely your fault if they break out the harder attacks (Reaper Sigma orbs and letting the scythe hit the floor in the 2nd form).  I just think that the debris attack is so OP that it bumps up the difficulty alone.  You can't really dodge it consistently (have fun if it comes out of the floor) and there's no way to manipulate him into using the wind attack.  I'd say it's worse than X5's purple block attack TBH.

[sonic slicer] be no problem for me, I usually hang around in the middle/far right of the arena before ugly head Siggy attacks, giving enough room to dodge. If I remember correctly you can also destroy the projectiles.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on August 13, 2012, 09:53:01 PM
I think Reaper and Scythe Sigma were pretty easy with both X and Zero if you know what you're doing.

However, the Final Sigma is pretty damn hard with Zero, and the battle just takes a while with X.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Acid on August 14, 2012, 01:09:09 AM
X4 to this day has one of my least favourite final Sigma battles. It always struck me as pretty incoherent and all over the place.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Da Dood on August 14, 2012, 02:03:30 AM
X4 level design is IMO kind of a strange thing. I don't think any of it is particularly clever, but I have a lot of fun plowing through those stages, especially as Zero. The fact that they're short and to the point is a plus in my book. There is no Metal Shark Player trash compactor/Mattrex lava equivalent, you can just fly through any X4 area with not a lot of stalling.

The game as a whole is one of my favorites, but X1 and X2 are way above. Zero makes up for the weak arsenal.

I have a soft spot for X4 because it's the last X game to follow the style of X1-3, in aesthetics and [parasitic bomb], before X5 expanded the universe and switched things up a bit.

I'm with Flame there. X4 is closer to the X1-X3 art style/classic features (like X's armor parts being useful on their own as you collect them) and that's cool. Definitely feels like a natural evolution after X3.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Satoryu on August 14, 2012, 04:10:52 AM
There's a lot I agree with in this thread. The game is pretty easy, and does have one of the weaker soundtracks. And the animated cutscenes probably are a huge nostalgia factor to us. But to call it overrated... Maybe I can agree with that, but just keep in mind being overrated doesn't make it bad. X4 is still the best put together and most accessible of the three PS1 games.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 14, 2012, 09:41:14 AM
I dunno, I always thought X4's soundtrack was pretty good. It's one of my favorite, if not my most favorite- X OST. Only track I feel is just odd, is the battle theme. It feels too passive.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 14, 2012, 07:23:44 PM
I just really did not like the instrument choices in X4. Too squeaky and high pitched. I mean, it's not MMII Game Boy bad, but still coming off of the X1-3 and then hearing X5-6, it's just really weak.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 15, 2012, 02:16:13 PM
X4's a solid X game and one of my favorites, but I really think they should've rethought the visual design and not put quite so much focus (cash/effort-wise) into it. I don't think the false depth perspective of the floors/stages really adds anything, and the backgrounds are very starkly pre-rendered CGI most of the time. Still, it's a very nice looking game, but where I loved the visuals of each SNES game, I felt this PSX style got old quick. The music's very different from the hard-rocking SNES sound that we all know and love, but to it's credit, X4's soundtrack features much less repetitive music than some of X2's soundtrack and some more of X3's. I jam to it easily. It fits the game experience well, but it's definitely not my favorite soundtrack.

Plus I hate X's shot sprites. They look so weak until you get the Plasma Shot--IF you get the Plasma Shot.

The cutscenes were .... okay. X should've been more involved in the story than he was. I know it was supposed to be Zero's big debut as a playable character--the first real chance to dig into his character--but it's still Mega Man X. That's what I'm paying for. I love me some Zero, but not when he's hijacking the series from another character I really like.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 16, 2012, 07:56:27 AM
Quote
the backgrounds are very starkly pre-rendered CGI most of the time.
That's X5. (and some of X6) from what i can tell, MOST of X4 is sprited, or is at least of CGI quality that meshes well with the sprited parts.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 16, 2012, 09:59:48 PM
I dunno. I remember X4's intro background looking mostly of CGI pre-renders aside from an animated gif of CAPCOM flashing on a building or too. And that cyber-eye in Cyber Peacock's stage.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on August 18, 2012, 12:13:05 AM
About the only thing I DIDN'T like about X4, besides Iris dying, anyway, is the fact that X and Zero were taken solo.  X and Zero play too well off of each other for me to consider separating them to be all that worthwhile.

Also one thing I do not believe I mentioned: X4 has the single best Ride Chaser stage in the series.  And the Eagle Ride Armor, exclusive to X4, is wonderfully broken.

I definitely disagree on the "overall music" part of X4. I consider X4 to be one of the weakest X series soundtracks. I thought both X5 & X6 had much better instrument decisions. X4 was a bit too high pitched, the boss battle themes did absolutely nothing for me, and the final boss stages were also pretty weak as well. I mean, X5 I can argue is not for everyone, but X6 had a fantastic soundtrack especially compared to X4.

I wish X had a better story line in X4 as well. Other than that and the soundtrack, the game itself is pretty damn solid.
I'm pretty sure Dinorex has all of X4 beaten in the "high pitched" department.  Further X5 really bombed on X's theme and the standard boss music, both key pieces in a game's music library (not that X5 didn't hit its high points among Zero, Sigma, and the special bosses).  The Zero Virus music was an impressive piece in itself, but really is ill suited for stage music, IMHO.  X6's soundtrack I like quite a bit, believe me.

In terms of individual tracks I'd easily concede that X6 and even X5 generally hit higher points than X4 did, but they also hit more low spots as well (ESPECIALLY X5).  On the whole I simply found the quality of X4's soundtrack to be more consistent, thus leading to more memorable tracks.  For me, personally, X4 had one of my favorite character themes for X in the series, and definitely my favorite for Dr. Light.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 18, 2012, 03:45:05 AM
Also one thing I do not believe I mentioned: X4 has the single best Ride Chaser stage in the series.  

While I do agree that level kicked way 4 more asses than any Ride Armor stage since, mostly for me because of the music, I still liked it better how in Overdrive Ostrich's stage you could get on, get off, and turn back and forth at your liberty. That's never been done before or since.

I'm pretty sure Dinorex has all of X4 beaten in the "high pitched" department.  Further X5 really bombed on X's theme and the standard boss music, both key pieces in a game's music library (not that X5 didn't hit its high points among Zero, Sigma, and the special bosses).  The Zero Virus music was an impressive piece in itself, but really is ill suited for stage music, IMHO.  X6's soundtrack I like quite a bit, believe me.

Dude, we agree so effing much on these points. I've always hated how stupid X's theme sounded in X5 compared to Zero's. That annoyed me since day one. What is he, Mr. Happy Fun Time Parade Clown? That's always what the music reminded me of. The difference is just SO jarring. Also, I've never been a huge fan of the Zero Virus music either. Too techno-trance dance floor music for me. And X6 does have a better soundtrack overall than X5.

For me, personally, X4 had one of my favorite character themes for X in the series, and definitely my favorite for Dr. Light.

Yeah, I agree with that as well. Both X and Zero's themes were great and sounded appropriate, and the new Dr. Light theme had a really nice melody to it that went at the same beat as the original X1 capsule theme. I liked it even more after listening to this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msQfyrqsHH8[/youtube]
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 18, 2012, 04:27:49 AM
I love X5's X theme. :T Sounds positive at first, then gets to sounding all determined.

Of course, it can't beat X's X4 theme, but it was still good in my eyes.

As for the Zero virus theme, it was nice, but the fact that it's used not only in the stage select, (as a shortened version without the full melody) but 3 more times after that, in the Virus stages, 1-3. I thought it at least fit the area well, really ambient and melancholy.

X6 definitely has one of the strongest soundtracks though. IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOOOOOWN
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 18, 2012, 06:17:55 AM
I'm pretty sure Dinorex has all of X4 beaten in the "high pitched" department.  Further X5 really bombed on X's theme and the standard boss music, both key pieces in a game's music library (not that X5 didn't hit its high points among Zero, Sigma, and the special bosses).  The Zero Virus music was an impressive piece in itself, but really is ill suited for stage music, IMHO.  X6's soundtrack I like quite a bit, believe me.

In terms of individual tracks I'd easily concede that X6 and even X5 generally hit higher points than X4 did, but they also hit more low spots as well (ESPECIALLY X5).  On the whole I simply found the quality of X4's soundtrack to be more consistent, thus leading to more memorable tracks.  For me, personally, X4 had one of my favorite character themes for X in the series, and definitely my favorite for Dr. Light.

I'll easily give you that X4 has X5 beat on the opening themes, cause with X5 X's starts off annoyingly and gets less annoying but not that much better and Zero's is quite forgettable. Here's the thing though. My feelings towards X4's X opening theme are almost the same as my feelings towards MM II GB AirMan's theme. The actual melody is fantastic, but I just do not like the choice of instruments. While it's not Dinorex high pitched, I'll give you that, it's still high pitched enough in the opening and right before the loop were I just find it annoying. There are times that I think it's worse to have a melody you love & hate the instruments then rather the entire song itself be terrible. As for Zero's theme, I think the crazy techno guitar before the loop overdoes it a bit. Speaking of the loop, using the YouTube OST Station as my guide, it loops way too late into the song. It misses out on the softer, better pitched part after the kick ass into. I cannot remember if that is the same as in the game, cause the soundtrack I have for X4 cuts it off after the...2nd crazy techno guitar. If that's the case, then poor loopage on that theme.

You and I have gone back and forth on the boss music for many years now, my dear Shell. This is where I know I'm in the minority, but X5's boss theme is one of my absolute favorites in the whole series. I love the bizarre-ness of the chanters in the opening, the odd techno sounds they chose to use for it, along with awesome guitar work and then the drum finish to start the loop again. X4's starts off high pitched, annoying, and repetitive. Then when that's finally over it's lowers the pitch and by the time they get to actual guitar work at the end, the song loops again. It's short and has so little substance. If I didn't think X3's was worse and if I had ANY clue where they were trying to go with X7's boss music, it'd be my least favorite.

While Zero Rave is ill suited for...everything really, at least it's not f'in boring, which BOTH Final Weapon stage songs are. Not only are they boring, but they are short. Neither of them make it 30 seconds before looping the boredom again. Zero Stage 1 in X5 starts off really well, with the creepiness settling in and the chanters in the background...and then goes off somewhere with it's choice of sounds. And Zero Rave is Zero Rave! XD

Finally, X4's soundtrack may be more consistent as a WHOLE than X5's (since that soundtrack just really gets weird at times) but I think the consistency of X4's instrument choices is what makes it so sub-par. This is comparing it to not just X5 & X6, but all the X soundtracks. I have to really like, or really hate, most things about a song to find it memorable.

Haha, again this is all just opinion though. I really don't like Bruce Springsteen at all and he's BELOVED!  8D
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 18, 2012, 09:00:57 AM
When I think about it, I didn't really like the Final Weapon theme. I liked the Space Port theme for what it was, definitely fit the situation, but Final Weapon? It's ok the first few minutes, then it just gets repetitive and easily stuck in your head, but not in the good way.

X5's boss theme, I like it, It's a good listen, it's just a strange boss theme to me though. Not a bad one, just... strange. Definitely unique. Id have to agree on Zero's intro theme in X5 being forgettable. It's good, but just cant hold up to X4's Zero theme. (which set the bar pretty high as far as Zero themes go, and Post X4 has really only the Command Mission's Zero theme to call competition, despite it being more of a slower paced theme like X5's.)

possibly two of my favorute X4 themes are, aside from the obvious X/Zero themes and Jet Stingray, have to be the Double theme and Both Sigma themes. Particularly the second, though the first one is definitely pretty unique IMO.

And the Dr. Light Capsule is still my favorite in the X series, although the X8 one comes close, held back only by the fact that they use a differently instrumented version for the R&D lab.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 18, 2012, 08:29:01 PM
I still remember how awesome Zero's theme sounded in X5, so I disagree that's it not as memorable as X4's. I'd say they're pretty even.

Hell, all of Zero's themes are way awesome. A lot of times more awesome than X's. 'Cept his X7 theme.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on August 19, 2012, 05:40:48 AM
I still remember how awesome Zero's theme sounded in X5, so I disagree that's it not as memorable as X4's. I'd say they're pretty even.
Agreed.  I find Zero's X5 theme to be one of the best tracks in the game; it's the perfect "guy who saves your ass" theme song.  Unfortunately I don't think the derivative stage clear jingle came out nearly as well; that's yet another area where X4 smoked X5.

And actually, I liked Zero's X7 theme too.  My least favorite is probably X3's (I know, I know, PB wants to bash my head in with his shield for that one), and even that's pretty decent.

In terms of music, Zero is the Bowser of Mega Man: You could give him 20 different theme songs and they'd ALL be badass.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 19, 2012, 06:09:11 AM
My least favorite is probably X3's (I know, I know, PB wants to bash my head in with his shield for that one), and even that's pretty decent.

Yeah, cannot understand that one at all.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Sakura Leic on August 19, 2012, 06:13:15 AM
My least favorite is probably X3's (I know, I know, PB wants to bash my head in with his shield for that one), and even that's pretty decent.
Is it wrong I occasionally confuse this theme with Guile's theme?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 19, 2012, 06:18:20 AM
This thread makes me wanna say how X4 is great for when you're inebriated, but my mind has wandered to wanting to make it my first single-handed Magger game to beat.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 19, 2012, 06:32:27 AM
Is it wrong I occasionally confuse this theme with Guile's theme?

In some ways, yes. Yes it is!  8D
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 19, 2012, 06:40:27 AM
In some ways, yes. Yes it is!  8D
Yea I dunno how to feel about that. On one hand they're both awesome, so putting them together in one's brain under "positive" is way radical, but on the other hand, the lack of familiarity says to me a lack of appreciation.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on August 19, 2012, 07:50:28 PM
Hype, some things about you I'll never understand.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjrhFYpTjjU[/youtube]

Badass to the core.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 19, 2012, 08:30:48 PM
Yea I dunno how to feel about that. On one hand they're both awesome, so putting them together in one's brain under "positive" is way radical, but on the other hand, the lack of familiarity says to me a lack of appreciation.

 -AC

It was a joke
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 19, 2012, 09:25:26 PM
Im not sure how anyone can like Zero's X7 theme over his X3 one. It's good, but not THAT good.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on August 20, 2012, 12:07:38 AM
Speaking of X7, am I the only one who thinks the whole soundtrack could fit well in snes format?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 20, 2012, 01:50:12 AM
-AC

It was a joke
I think you're reading me too seriously. :]

I honestly don't remember too much of X7's music. Wasn't the Sigma music great? Or was it awful? For some reason I remember it being some extreme.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 20, 2012, 03:06:48 AM
I loved X7's Sigma themes. They rocked my balls.

The rest of the soundtrack's not very memorable. The only other songs in X7 I cared about were Rina Aiuchi's Code Crush and Showtaro Morikubo's Lazy Mind.

Well, tbh, I actually liked the cutscene muzacks.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 20, 2012, 03:13:57 AM
I liked that one piece they reused in Command Mission.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 20, 2012, 03:27:01 AM
I love the Japanese themes. Jounetsu Setsuna's great, and my favorite's X4's. Remember the first time you watched the opening to that, and you said to yourself, "Those motherfuckers, CoA." The American X4 opening was cool when I was 10.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 20, 2012, 03:34:37 AM
I still like the US opening to X4. X series is one where both sides of the pond have good openers.

I DONT however, dig X5's Japanese opening as much. I like the songs themself, they are alright, but they dont seem to mesh as well as the "Zero death/weapon get" theme do.

Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 20, 2012, 03:38:31 AM
Yea, X5 is the definite exception to the rule. Redone classic themes like that evoke a lot of emotion.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on August 20, 2012, 03:45:39 AM
I really like X6's opening and ending theme. although The Answer is kinda...eh

I always thought Moon Light's lyrics were the subtitles for the opening
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 20, 2012, 04:01:43 AM
The Answer is an odd song by itself, but the snippet they use for the opening works just fine. I remember being blown away by X6's opening the first time I played it. I was like, WHOOOOOOOOOOA WHAT IS THIIIIIIIS

Not to mention the intro was mostly animated, and had the whole "MEGA MAN X EPISODE 6" which I STILL think is epic.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 20, 2012, 04:11:33 AM
I like how it became marketing acceptable to leave Japanese themes as-is in games.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on August 20, 2012, 04:25:42 AM
I think animating X5's cutscenes for the intro was really nice.

I remember when I was little I thought I got the wrong version of the game since the voices were in japanese but the rest was in english
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 20, 2012, 04:27:20 AM
Okay.

I'm very disappointed in all of you.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKM6wVUQsmE[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejjv3o484xs&feature=related[/youtube]

Not a single mention of Kotono Shibuya. Beautiful themes, them.

Not to mention spectularly smooth, retro animation. I soooooo there was an anime just like that back then. Battle Network got a great anime, but not the X series?

It's not fair.  ;O;
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on August 20, 2012, 04:43:20 AM
Believe is one of my favorite songs ever.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 20, 2012, 04:57:58 AM
Gotta love the artistic freedom on X' hand folding into his Buster
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 20, 2012, 05:19:35 AM
Believe is definitely one of the best Jap. X songs, if not my favorite. It's just SO CATCHY. And I love the little cutscenes in the corner of the screen, just showing miscellaneous stuff. That ending of X and Zero staring off into the sunset on a rooftop is still the greatest thing ever.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 20, 2012, 06:08:04 AM
 <3 Believe

As for X7, it has one of the best Sigma fight songs in the series. It could contend for #1. I also like the 1st Crimson Palace stage and maybe another theme or two. Otherwise, not really a fan.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 20, 2012, 06:29:05 AM
To be honest, theres nothing wrong with X7's soundtrack. The problem is everything else.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 20, 2012, 06:41:17 AM
To be honest, theres nothing wrong with X7's soundtrack. The problem is everything else.


Don't get me started
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 20, 2012, 06:52:57 AM
X7's a game you really have to want to play. But it's not as awful as everybody makes it seem. I rather liked targeting and unleashing charge shots.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 20, 2012, 07:02:44 AM
Thing about Targeting, is that it only really works for 3D. it's really stupid in 2D.

X7 is really not nearly as bad as say, Sonic 06, but it is still possibly the worst X series game, matched only by Xtreme 1.

It has so much potential, and so many right ideas, but then it has just as many bad ideas, and problems to it.

Capcom really should have ironed out everything X7 did wrong, and tried again, but instead we got X8, which while good, isnt really outstanding as far as X games go, either. Although we did get the AMAZING Command Mission inbetween, which takes the 3D X series idea and makes it an RPG which for whatever magical reason, not only works extremely well, but is extremely engrossing, and really well made.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 20, 2012, 07:19:20 AM
I like the targeting in 2D. It was fresh feeling, albeit cheap and easy.

I love Sonic '06. Closest thing we're gonna get to a Sonic Adventure 3 for a long long time. I love playing with the physics engine. I never understood people's gripes about the glitches. It's like they never played a 3D Sonic. The one I remember having the fewest was Heroes, and god that game, blegh.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on August 20, 2012, 05:14:14 PM
But it's not as awful as everybody makes it seem.

You're right; It's worse.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 20, 2012, 09:01:42 PM
What's better? Secret Rings? Black Knight? Unleashed? Generations? I dunno what pisses me off more, the constant gameplay changes, or the lackluster 2.5D parts that they're hanging on for dear life by.

Though I will say the on-rails parts aren't awful, but they sure don't compare to the difficult nature of the running sequences in '06.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 20, 2012, 09:11:29 PM
>Comparing Sonic 06 to Unleashed and Generations

Please dont do this.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 20, 2012, 09:27:18 PM
Unleashed? The running parts were fun, but the problem was you had to trudge through those awful watered-down DMC sequences. I never understood people that like DMC anyway, but it was a much worse version.

Generations? I didn't even try the new stages. I'm sure they're fun. The 2.5D parts were on par with that turd of a Sonic 4. Some of my friends say they improved Sonic 4 for the next episode, but I find that difficult to believe.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 21, 2012, 01:31:57 AM
Don't be dishin' on mah man the Werehog. The concept is ridiculous Ill give you that, and even incorrectly named, (Were means man, not wolf, so Werehog would literally translate to "Manhog")

But it's gameplay was well done, and I pretty much enjoyed it, and would have enjoyed it more if only for the battle music interrupting ever 3 minutes when I am sighted by an enemy.

If you play the Wii/PS2 version, then you can gripe on about it, since that WAS pretty bad, although the daytime segments were "ok".

Generations was really [tornado fang]ing fun, (save the final boss which they REALLY dropped the ball on) but suffers from what I feel is a lack of content. it feels too short for what it is, and could very well have had far more stages and bosses to fill the game and maybe provide for some more interaction between the Classic and Modern eras, for example, things like Classic Knuckles, would have been appreciated, or just plain more interaction between Modern and Classic Sonic. For an anniversary game which encompasses Sonic's life and history, it was kinda lacking. But other than that the gameplay was top notch, and while Classic Sonic was a bit overpowered, (DAT SPINDASH) he controlled pretty damn close to how he used to. HARDLY comparable to Sonic 4's dimps bullshit.

And Modern Sonic plays pretty much like he did in Unleashed and Colors, little difference.

Speaking of which, you forgot to mention Colors, which after the split opinions over Unleashed, managed to totally unify the fanbase in agreement that Sega was finally starting to get it right.
As for 4 ep. 2, from what ive seen, they have definitely improved, I mean, it isnt nearly Classic sonic yet, but it's certainly a far better attempt than Ep. 1 was. Even the areas and music were better.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 21, 2012, 02:17:47 AM
I did play the Wii one. I assume the 360 one is better?

I completely forgot about Colors. I oughtta check it out. I bet it's pretty cheap by now.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Phi on August 21, 2012, 02:19:54 AM
No, the Werehog gameplay is [parasitic bomb]. Made even worse by the horrid framerate.

Generations was actually fun, not to mention the orgasmic selection of old songs. Though I hate Seaside Hill (Classic and Modern) with a passion, and loathe about 80% of the missions, which would've been fine if they were optional.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 21, 2012, 03:13:23 AM
I always found it funny how much [parasitic bomb] certain Sonic games get. Like Shadow the Hedgehog. Ridiculous concept, not a great game, but fun when I played it. And the alternate routes are just that, alternate. If you wanna just run the [tornado fang] to the ring you can. It's a glorious concept Sega should put into action more often.

Remember the first time you played SA2? Weren't you pissed at the Eggman/Tails levels? I mean, I grew to like them, but god damn all I wanted to do was run fast.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 21, 2012, 03:42:15 AM
I'm also in the majority minority that rather enjoyed the Werehog stages, sans the annoying fight music. It was fun to be all Stretch Armstrong throughout the stage, throwing [parasitic bomb] at enemies and enemies at [parasitic bomb] and pounding things into the ground or swinging around. A rather fun romp, but marred with average level design and the awfully repetitive brawls.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 21, 2012, 03:44:57 AM
I did play the Wii one. I assume the 360 one is better?
Only thing the Wii/PS2 version has going for it is a pretty neat Eggmanland (Day) stage, and the spindash when you boost into a dash panel, and the fact you can charge up a spindash to get a free boost before it says "GO!"

The Night/Day ratio is also totally [tornado fang]'d in the Wii/PS2 version, with an unhealthy serving of Werehog, all day erry day.

The 360/PS3 version has a more balanced ratio. Eggmanland is a total clusterfuck mix of both however, with Day and Night segments strewn throughout the massive ass level.

the Wii/PS2 version also had 2 whole areas cut from it, with Africa(Maizuri) just a boss fight, and New York(Empire City) just completely missing.

Unleashed HD is definitely worth a try IMO. rent it if you are unsure, but at least try it, it's much MUCH better than the other version, which I think was handled by dimps.
Quote
I completely forgot about Colors. I oughtta check it out. I bet it's pretty cheap by now.
It's pretty worth it. This time arround, the choice gimmick is really almost entirely optional save for a few spots, and really act more like over glorified power ups, and are presented as such.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on August 21, 2012, 05:19:12 AM
What's better? Secret Rings? Black Knight? Unleashed? Generations?

Bad Sonic games do not decrease X7's low quality.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 21, 2012, 07:26:49 AM
Bad Sonic games do not decrease X7's low quality.

At least you don't have to unlock the main [tornado fang]ing character of the series in any of those games...  B(
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 21, 2012, 08:59:05 PM
Bad Sonic games do not decrease X7's low quality.
I was comparing them to Sonic '06.

At least you don't have to unlock the main [tornado fang]ing character of the series in any of those games...  B(
But X was too sad to fight lol
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Nexus on August 22, 2012, 03:27:23 AM
Honestly, every game has issues, most just bandwagon on Sonic '06 because it was rushed to Christmas and technically an unfinished game, resulting in many, many issues; they took that, the load times, and the bad story and accentuated the negatives way out of proportion. If a glitch happened, it'd be comparable to how ProtonJon's LP of Superman 64 would be counted against the game along with everything else. I hated the game myself, but mainly because it didn't feel right to me rather than 'holy [parasitic bomb] glitches', and just seemed off the entire time. Also mach speed sections. (Then again, this is also opinion, so sorry if I seem like i'm lumping in everyone who hates Sonic '06 together; I just see a lot of people pretty much state 'glitches', 'story', or 'loading times' as the problems and often seem like they only watched the infamous Pokecapn LP of the game instead.)

On-topic, X4 is probably mainly gushed over due to nostalgia, but that doesn't mean it's a poor-quality title or anything. Takes the formula of the three games before it, tries to step it up a notch and doesn't quite hit all the targets. Weird boss balancing, mostly seen in Final Weapon, like the General with Zero and the fact that one form of Final Sigma is harmless, but the other form can be a [tornado fang]ing nightmare for either character; a larger emphasis on story that shafts X a bit for Zero, give or take the opinions on the matter; and inconsistent stage design (the Rider level for Stingray was a full two-parter, yet Storm Owl gets one moderate level part and then the second part is less than a minute in length if you can beat the miniboss fast enough; Final Weapon, again, is also a very weird design).

The soundtrack is something I can remember, and I prefer the game, in some aspects, over X5 as it just feels more polished than its sequel, but at the same time the game just feels very different from every other entry, even with X5 & X6 continuing gameplay-wise from X4. Kind of like how X2 and X3 always felt strange compared to X1.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 22, 2012, 03:56:12 AM
Honestly, every game has issues, most just bandwagon on Sonic '06 because it was rushed to Christmas and technically an unfinished game, resulting in many, many issues; they took that, the load times, and the bad story and accentuated the negatives way out of proportion. If a glitch happened, it'd be comparable to how ProtonJon's LP of Superman 64 would be counted against the game along with everything else. I hated the game myself, but mainly because it didn't feel right to me rather than 'holy [parasitic bomb] glitches', and just seemed off the entire time. Also mach speed sections. (Then again, this is also opinion, so sorry if I seem like i'm lumping in everyone who hates Sonic '06 together; I just see a lot of people pretty much state 'glitches', 'story', or 'loading times' as the problems and often seem like they only watched the infamous Pokecapn LP of the game instead.)
The load times were awful, and it's such a pity they didn't either take their time or get their work done in time. The scope of the (albeit a tad ridiculous) story was crazy though. I remember having no idea where the plot was going or when the game was going to end (in a good way) when Eggman sends Team Sonic to the future.

On-topic, X4 is probably mainly gushed over due to nostalgia, but that doesn't mean it's a poor-quality title or anything. Takes the formula of the three games before it, tries to step it up a notch and doesn't quite hit all the targets. Weird boss balancing, mostly seen in Final Weapon, like the General with Zero and the fact that one form of Final Sigma is harmless, but the other form can be a [tornado fang]ing nightmare for either character; a larger emphasis on story that shafts X a bit for Zero, give or take the opinions on the matter; and inconsistent stage design (the Rider level for Stingray was a full two-parter, yet Storm Owl gets one moderate level part and then the second part is less than a minute in length if you can beat the miniboss fast enough; Final Weapon, again, is also a very weird design).
Zero's boss' difficulty doesn't bother me too much, but I always felt he loses out not getting to fight Double, though Iris tugged at the heartstrings (which was most easily swallowed when I was younger, when the voice acting was blindly accepted by me), and did have the neat gimmick of forcing you to not fight like a madman.

As for boss balancing, how about Web Spider hardly being worth beating with his weakness? I remember discovering that later, and it just never making sense to me to not beat him first. Besides, without his weapon X can't practically get anywhere.

As for Zero, we all know that Kuenzan (sp?) is the biggest gamebreaker since Metal Blade, and it even comes with the double-jump. Man, I remember when I first learned to turn around, and that was it. You practically prance through the stages.

The soundtrack is something I can remember, and I prefer the game, in some aspects, over X5 as it just feels more polished than its sequel, but at the same time the game just feels very different from every other entry, even with X5 & X6 continuing gameplay-wise from X4. Kind of like how X2 and X3 always felt strange compared to X1.
X2 & X3 suffer from due to the double buster making X clunky. The power isn't worth it, especially with X3's buster.

X6 manages to hold on, IMO, due to the insane difficulty of not losing any reploids. I've said it before, but it's a game that shines when you're just about to the brink of being bored completely as a seasoned player.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 22, 2012, 04:13:57 AM
Despite the Stock Charge being pretty much forgotten, (everyone loves that Plasma Shot,) I still think the idea was pretty novel. I mean, IMO it was the only logical step up from the Double Buster, which gives you two charge shots- a Buster that just lets you outright store a few charge shots and shoot them at your leisure. But it felt like, I dunno, it could have been done better? Sometimes I just want to shoot a charge shot, but the mechanic if I recall, doesnt allow you to just charge and fire, because it has to stock it first. Something which made it a bit of a hassle.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 22, 2012, 04:25:10 AM
I wanna say you get two for the same amount of charge time, but you have to manually fire it, which can go off to slowly sometimes. At least you can keep dashing as you fire though.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on August 22, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
X2 & X3 suffer from due to the double buster making X clunky. The power isn't worth it, especially with X3's buster.

X3's Double Buster shot had a delay if you didn't want to create the giant one, but there was nothing clunky about X2's. It was so fast.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 22, 2012, 05:26:09 AM
No, he's right. While I will praise up and down how awesome X2's Double Shot is, the one thing that holds it back is that it actually does stop you dead when you fire the first shot on the ground. Try walking or dashing and then fire the first half.

ZX fixed this, but they did it by having the shots just come out of one buster, which looked so [tornado fang]ing lame next to X2's one-two punch. Plus all the charged shots were smaller in the Zero & ZX series than they were in the X1-X3 games. Still, I enjoyed it. It's Mega Man X.

Even without the programming quirk, the Double Shot could've definitely been improved upon. The Cross-Charge makes sense and sounds great on paper, but it suffered from the same flaw that held the Double Shot back in X2. On top of that, it fires too slowly, and the first shot--while being the stronger of the two in X3--doesn't look as cool as a regular fully-charged shot. Nice design, but not so nice execution.

Project Zero actually fixed the Cross-Charge a bit: http://megamanx9.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2807-mega-man-x3-zero-project-vers-30-in-progress/
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 22, 2012, 05:34:48 AM
You drop straight to the ground if you fire a charge shot, either the first or the second, after you get the double buster in either X2 or X3

I think the X3's buster's first shot is 2 fully charged shots. Is that correct? Where does that leave the second shot?

X2's are both the same, despite graphical differences? I'm slightly rusty on my damage amounts.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 22, 2012, 05:40:20 AM
No, I think you can still move around if you fire one of the double shots in the air, but I'll have to test that.

The first shot of X3's Cross-Charge does indeed count as two charged shots, whereas for X2's Double Shot, it's the second one. The swirling red (blue?) helix around the shot acts as a second hit. So basically:

X2 Buster: Regular, Double-Tap
X3 Buster: Double-Tap, Regular
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Nexus on August 22, 2012, 05:42:48 AM
I wasn't quite meaning the feeling of the buster shot upgrades; truthfully, i'm a fairly average player and probably wouldn't find the respective arm parts myself without some sort of aid in a regular playthrough. What I meant was that X1 felt like that 'fresh first game' kinda thing, the physics and other smaller factors feel far different to me than X2's and X3's. Like, the first game probably wasn't entirely refined / tuned, but had its qualities, and then X2 and 3 are much closer in game feel to eachother.

.. Although it doesn't help that X2 and 3 are really not that memorable for me at all.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 22, 2012, 05:51:57 AM
No, I think you can still move around if you fire one of the double shots in the air, but I'll have to test that.
You drop. I remember it vividly, mostly because it pissed me the [tornado fang] off. Pretty sure in both. You also LET GO OF LADDERS. Now that is [tornado fang]ing retarded.

truthfully, i'm a fairly average player and probably wouldn't find the respective arm parts myself without some sort of aid in a regular playthrough.
You gotta comb my man. Hug every surface, check every pit, and refuse to give up on getting onto that wall above the doorway. Mostly that'll get you everything. It's like navigating a labyrinth (or at least one that follows the rules).

It's much easier than Zelda secret finding. That's like a game of Poker. I'll sit there and think to myself, "OK, which path was more obvious? Where did they WANT me to go?"
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 22, 2012, 06:07:44 AM
You drop. I remember it vividly, mostly because it pissed me the [tornado fang] off. Pretty sure in both. You also LET GO OF LADDERS. Now that is [tornado fang]ing retarded.

You're right. I remember. That's some dodgy programming. And it wouldn't happen if you were hugging a wall. You would just shoot out of one buster, which was fine.

Fixing this should be as simple as creating new animation frames and having the situational code point at them. Not sure how the stopping could be removed though, since I'm not sure why it's there in the first place. Was it necessity? Wouldn't work if removed? Oversight?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 22, 2012, 08:02:23 AM
I think they really wanted you to see X throw his charge shots. And I mean throw. He practically punches them forward.

But yes, they should've added more frames. But back then nobody was good enough for it to matter, at least to them. Don't forget dashing was relegated to an upgrade so as to not confuse the player with too many controls.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on August 22, 2012, 06:13:42 PM
It was only an upgrade in X1. In X2, he dashes from the start.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on August 22, 2012, 07:15:16 PM
It was only an upgrade in X1. In X2, he dashes from the start.
Uh, yea, I know that.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on August 22, 2012, 10:38:17 PM
I [tornado fang]ing hated X3's armored double charged buster

Its so delayed and one of the shots is so wimpy and weak.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on August 22, 2012, 10:53:32 PM
Try Project Zero. It totally fixes it. At least when you combine the two charges. I don't think the first shot could be sped up, or you couldn't cross the charges in the first place. I think that coudl be offset, though, by not having it force X to a stop or off a ladder.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: zuschzero on August 26, 2012, 09:07:48 PM
I have to correct myself a bit: So, Split Mushroom is actually the best stage in the game, Frost Walrus is also a good level and Cyber Peacock also has moments.
But the rest is still just meh.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on September 01, 2012, 07:19:49 AM
No, he's right. While I will praise up and down how awesome X2's Double Shot is, the one thing that holds it back is that it actually does stop you dead when you fire the first shot on the ground. Try walking or dashing and then fire the first half.
The thing is, with X2's double buster, you didn't NEED to move.  You were assured that whatever was standing in front of you was about to get completely annihilated.

Not so in X3.  The shot is stronger than the standard, yes, but nowhere NEAR the strength of the previous titles.

As far as ZX goes, yeah, the lack of a two-arm visual is unfortunate.  Seemingly ever since X5 such a visual has gone the way of the dinosaur.  You'd think that making both left-handed and right-handed buster sprites would be cake compared to, say, walking saber slashes.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on September 03, 2012, 12:21:08 AM
Well, you didn't need to, but I don't think there was a good reason to stop you moving in the first place. It'd feel better if you weren't.

Actually the double-shot sprite ended with X4.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Gaia on September 03, 2012, 01:30:56 AM
I [tornado fang]ing hated X3's armored double charged buster

Its so delayed and one of the shots is so wimpy and weak.

This. One Thousand Times This. I hate having to let it go on the third charge just so I can hit Kaiser Sigma's head. And what's even dumber is removing the password system that records the placement in the fortresses. I liked that in X2 and saves me a helluva time fighting the same [parasitic bomb] again, it's why I hate X3's difficulty curve. Some bosses are cake yet others are outright difficult, the hell?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on September 03, 2012, 05:55:52 AM
Well, you didn't need to, but I don't think there was a good reason to stop you moving in the first place. It'd feel better if you weren't.

Actually the double-shot sprite ended with X4.
Yes, but X4 didn't have anyone performing a double shot in the first place.  X5 did.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on September 03, 2012, 06:34:09 AM
X4 had the Quad-Shot.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on September 03, 2012, 06:38:49 AM
Out of one buster. And they were puny.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Pyro on September 03, 2012, 07:10:23 AM
My fondness for X4 is probably more out of nostalgia because it was the game that made me want to get a PlayStation, and I certainly wasn't going to buy one for Crash Bandicoot back in '98. That aside, I cannot argue against the fact that X4's soundtrack is lackluster at best. Then again I thought that X2 and X3 had pretty bad to horrible music compared to X1 with only a few exceptions (Gravity Beetle comes to mind.) None of those games could even touch tracks like Storm Eagle, Boomer Kuwanger, or the Boss Battle.

I will concede on level design because it was really nothing to write home about.

I thought the graphics were pretty good, though I wonder why they did not use the charging animation from X4 in X5 and X6. That swirl was a nice touch, and the boss design? X4 had the best boss designs since the original game because to put it bluntly, I disliked the boss designs for X2/3. They really did not do anything for me. I will always have a soft spot for Magma Dragoon.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Gaia on September 03, 2012, 07:26:15 AM
Probably because Magma Dragoon had a unique gig going for him at the time, as he was probably the only one of the regular eight bosses to appear in the intro stage in the X series as of yet, and being fleshed out more to boot.

Also, there's Final Fantasy VII if there's another reason to buy a PlayStation. Other than than it being able to play games it itself was mostly an overglorified CD Player.

And yeah, I could just jam out to one of the tracks in X5 and X6, but I just found Walrus' stage to be a bit more theraputic/christmas oriented than a song to slaughtering countless mechanaloids. That and X2 & 3 put a little overemphasis in the guitar I find.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on September 03, 2012, 05:26:38 PM
X4 had the Quad-Shot.
X doesn't have four arms.

I thought the graphics were pretty good, though I wonder why they did not use the charging animation from X4 in X5 and X6.
Well, they do in X5 if you fight against X.

Oddly enough, the X5/X6 charge animation looks pretty darn good at lower framerates; the "sparks" are positioned so that they have an almost SNES-like pattern to them as they converge.  The problem is they ramped up the framerate so damn high that it just looks like a bunch of lines.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Melsurigan on October 20, 2012, 03:10:40 AM
I secretly kinda hated X4 for the longest time, since it turned the X series from badass and rock-heavy into a "tragic", these-robots-you're-killing-are-not-evil whine-fest with generic techno music. The X franchise would not recover UNTIL THE LAST GAME IN THE SERIES, when we finally got the unfettered awesomeness that our heroes have lacked for so long.


((No offense to Command Mission though; I loved that game and its music.))
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 20, 2012, 06:40:01 AM
X8's physics were retarded, and every level was a gimmick. I share not your love for it. I honestly prefer X7.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 20, 2012, 07:07:46 AM
X7's physics were not much better, to be honest. They were in fact, broken. You could not dash wall kick properly. X8's physics were not an issue, its just... other things that were. I could name a few, but the biggest is bland level design with very little replay value. Trillobyte's is the worst offender, using the gimmick of the giant Mechaniloid to repeat the short stage twice, back and forth, with 2 quick miniboss fights with it, and then a really weird miniboss section with random crystal wall dodging. (and not to mention TWO- not one, but TWO ride chaser stages.) Only Stages that were any good, were the Primrose, and a LITTLE bit of the Booster Forest and Pitch Black. Neither was perfect, but were alright for certain aspects. Particularly Pitch Black's Metal Gear X stealth aspect which was interesting and fun to play around with as Axl.

And Jakob was alright, if only for the novelty of the concept, and the execution, which was well done. (you actually see the sky get darker outside as you get further up in the sky)

And I would say that X8's music is "generic" rock. Most of it was forgettable outside of a scant few tunes.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 20, 2012, 07:22:09 AM
X8's music is forgettable. The final stages are cool. The Attack of the Clones level is the best level in the game.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 20, 2012, 07:47:44 AM
The Boss rush? yeah the Gateway station was pretty cool. Especially how they make you think, "Oh right, Boss rematches... Sigma Fight... ENDGAME TIME!" then they pull the "lolnope, its a fake, He's not dead yet" and have you go one more stage.

Ill admit that was structured nicely. Though When you think about it, there's really only 2 final stages, with a small Boss Rematch area inbetween them. I think X8 might just have the least number of final stages in the X series...
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on October 20, 2012, 03:42:22 PM
I honestly prefer X7.

Congratulations. Your opinions have now lost all credibility.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 20, 2012, 04:53:56 PM
Well to be fair, X7 feels more like a traditional X game than X8. MUCH more.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on October 20, 2012, 07:17:04 PM
I liked X8 and thought X7 was decent, X6 is the only game that's hard for me to like due to the dreaded level design

I think both X8 and X7's soundtrack are amazing.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on October 20, 2012, 07:35:45 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnSQItdHIfM[/youtube]

NUFF SAID
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 20, 2012, 08:00:46 PM
Not ALL of X8's tracks are bad. Jakob is one of the good ones, (and the small bit of "elevator music" style at the beginning is genius) along with Copy Sigma, Lumine 2nd, Vile, the Capsule theme, and the Gateway Station theme. A lot of the others are painfully forgettable though, or just sound real generic rock like.

maybe I just don't like the kind of guitars they used. Instrumentation is a pretty big thing, and it's the difference between Sonic 4's Intro stage sounding like total ass, or with genesis instruments, actually sounding pretty damn good.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on October 20, 2012, 09:34:54 PM
Also these
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW7X5hNXyHo[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=engMW1hSSkI[/youtube]
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: VixyNyan on October 21, 2012, 02:27:10 AM
XD that image
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 21, 2012, 02:40:07 AM
Very familiar, isn't it. It's hillarious how those are still floating around.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 21, 2012, 03:09:48 AM
I liked X8 and thought X7 was decent, X6 is the only game that's hard for me to like due to the dreaded level design
The dreaded level design is what keeps me coming back, oddly enough. It's damned hard.

I think both X8 and X7's soundtrack are amazing.
Ironically, and I think we can agree on this, X6' soundtrack is much better than X7's and X8's.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on October 21, 2012, 03:17:48 AM
Well to be fair, X7 feels more like a traditional X game than X8. MUCH more.

Except for the nontraditional aspect of not starting with the main character of the series.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Sakura Leic on October 21, 2012, 03:20:38 AM
Except for the nontraditional aspect of not starting with the main character of the series.
Honestly this is the only argument I need to never play X7.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 21, 2012, 03:41:38 AM
Except for the nontraditional aspect of not starting with the main character of the series.
Umm excuse me but Zero is the main character of the series.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Sakura Leic on October 21, 2012, 03:58:59 AM
Umm excuse me but Zero is the main character of the series.
But it's call Megaman X.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: VixyNyan on October 21, 2012, 04:07:24 AM
Umm excuse me but Zero is the main character of the series.

(http://i.imgur.com/CFvBm.jpg)
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 21, 2012, 04:23:20 AM
But he is. Inafune said it himself. Every game revolves around him. He's literally the central focus of every game until Axl takes the limelight.

X1? It's about Zero being radical and dying.

X2? Wily attempts to rebuild Zero and have him kill X, but is foiled.

X3? I actually have no idea what's canon with X3. Either Zero does the thing with his saber and the "cure", or X takes his saber and kicks ass. It's still about him. X is supposed to rely on his assistance the whole time, right?

X4-X6 are so blatantly about Zero I won't even go into detail.

And what happens in X7? Zero meets the new character and develops the first relationship with him.

Lord of the Rings is a single book, regardless of what happened after it was written by the marketers. What makes this any different?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on October 21, 2012, 04:28:03 AM
also i forgot this ;D
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGzPj51wFgM&feature=channel&list=UL[/youtube]

Quote
Ironically, and I think we can agree on this, X6' soundtrack is much better than X7's and X8's.

no

X7 has the second best Boss theme in the series. X5 in first place.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on October 21, 2012, 05:46:50 AM
X7 has the second best Boss theme in the series. X5 in first place.
...I don't think my brain can process that statement unless I assume you're talking about one of the special boss fights.  X5's regular boss theme is the standard against which all audio torture is measured.

The X franchise would not recover UNTIL THE LAST GAME IN THE SERIES, when we finally got the unfettered awesomeness that our heroes have lacked for so long.
Considering how god-awful the story (not to mention the power-up and ranking systems in general) was with their first attempted "last game in the series", I wouldn't put much weight on that theory.

But he is. Inafune said it himself. Every game revolves around him.
...he's not wrong, you know.  I mean, Inafune's idea of finality is, "Kill Zero and nobody will care what happens to the blue guy."

Honestly this is the only argument I need to never play X7.
For God's sake, people, borrow somebody's memory card if you're that desperate.  It is absolutely impossible to "miss" X, and he carries into New Game Plus.  The only reason you DON'T start the game with him is because if you did, nobody in their right mind would go near Axl.  That and his charged shot is INSANELY powerful.

If you're going to avoid X7, avoid it for X's whining.  Or the level design.  Or the fact that 90% of the game's attacks are improperly balanced in one of the two gameplay modes.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 21, 2012, 05:56:30 AM
Im surprised they didnt make Axl a rapid fire shooter from the start. He really was just X minus a charged shot. X8 did Axl SO much better. but then again, they couldnt really do multi directional shooting in X7 like X8, could they?

Also, X7's boss theme? good? Only the SNES remixes sounds good. X7 is one of the worst. I dont mind X5's boss theme either. And while I don't hate X6's, it does sound terribly passive. Although id have to say X3 has the worst boss theme- it's literally a 10 second short loop. The boss intro is better than the boss music even.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on October 21, 2012, 05:59:13 AM
Im surprised they didnt make Axl a rapid fire shooter from the start. He really was just X minus a charged shot. X8 did Axl SO much better. but then again, they couldnt really do multi directional shooting in X7 like X8, could they?
Auto-lock.  No point.

The only thing Axl really has over X is his alternate primary weapons.  G-Launcher was pretty sweet.  That's about it.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 21, 2012, 06:07:51 AM
If I recall, most of Axl's weapons were the same as X's.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on October 21, 2012, 06:22:10 AM
The special attacks were all the same, yes, but he also got alternate guns from a select few bosses that would modify his normal attack.

Then in X8 they decided to make that the template for ALL of his stolen boss abilities.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 21, 2012, 06:28:20 AM
also i forgot this ;D
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGzPj51wFgM&feature=channel&list=UL[/youtube]
X7 has the second best Boss theme in the series. X5 in first place.
...I don't think my brain can process that statement unless I assume you're talking about one of the special boss fights.  X5's regular boss theme is the standard against which all audio torture is measured.
Also, X7's boss theme? good? Only the SNES remixes sounds good. X7 is one of the worst. I dont mind X5's boss theme either. And while I don't hate X6's, it does sound terribly passive. Although id have to say X3 has the worst boss theme- it's literally a 10 second short loop. The boss intro is better than the boss music even.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img687/9050/chinku.png)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbz8ti8JGCs[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YvuN2I2v4s[/youtube]

Im surprised they didnt make Axl a rapid fire shooter from the start. He really was just X minus a charged shot. X8 did Axl SO much better. but then again, they couldnt really do multi directional shooting in X7 like X8, could they?
Imagine if Axl could stop in mid-air, rapid-fire, and lock-on... That sounds really, really broken. In a very fun way.

For God's sake, people, borrow somebody's memory card if you're that desperate.  It is absolutely impossible to "miss" X, and he carries into New Game Plus.  The only reason you DON'T start the game with him is because if you did, nobody in their right mind would go near Axl.  That and his charged shot is INSANELY powerful.
My favorite part of the game.

The special attacks were all the same, yes, but he also got alternate guns from a select few bosses that would modify his normal attack.
My second favorite part of the game was Axl's weapons.

Or the level design.
What's wrong with the level design?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on October 21, 2012, 07:09:14 AM
It's mainly the 2D levels, which with the exception of Stonekong, appear to have been done by poorly trained monkeys.

They made an ENTIRE STAGE out of the winding staircase gimmick from X4/X5.  How do you excuse that?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: OBJECTION MAN on October 21, 2012, 08:15:50 AM
X7 has the second best Boss theme in the series. X5 in first place.

Super opposite day.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Joseph Collins on October 21, 2012, 08:30:38 AM
Sigma's battle theme from Rockman X7.

Need I say more?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Rin on October 21, 2012, 09:06:36 AM
I can honestly say, X7 has the better soundtrack... but better anything else? LOLNOPE
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 21, 2012, 03:10:47 PM
Sigma's battle theme from Rockman X7.

Need I say more?
Thats not the Boss theme. That's the Sigma Battle theme. Learn the difference. Our Blood Boils is an awesome track, but the regular boss theme- is not.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on October 21, 2012, 07:04:28 PM
Thats not the Boss theme. That's the Sigma Battle theme. Learn the difference. Our Blood Boils is an awesome track, but the regular boss theme- is not.
Sigma is a boss, Flame.

Yes, I get what you're trying to say, but Karasai didn't specify.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 21, 2012, 07:10:49 PM
The scope of the final Sigma in X7 was something they could only achieve in 3D IMO. Anything else would have felt goofy and fake, but you really were fighting a Sigma that big, and from your perspective, he looks as big as he really is. Also crotch LASER.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on October 21, 2012, 07:22:21 PM
Wasnt the crotch laser an instant death?

Been a long time since I've gotten to Sigma in X7.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 21, 2012, 08:40:05 PM
I forget. It's pretty easy to dodge, anyway.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 21, 2012, 09:17:42 PM
Sigma x7 is easy period. But specifically, you could hang around the upper left blocks ans it would be [acid burst] easy. But yeah, the scale of final sigma wts the best
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 21, 2012, 09:31:07 PM
That's exactly where I wound up fighting him. I hear he's much easier with Zero, though. I did it with X and Axl IIRC.

I hate when they did that pick a different character for each level thing starting with X5. I just pick one and always pick them.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 22, 2012, 08:06:24 AM
noone is stoping you from just using X or Zero in X5 and 6. Or X7 and 8 for that matter.

and yeah. Zero is, since when he needs to mess with Sigma's green fireballs, he just uses his defense move and reflects them at siggy. then fires a homing missile, and therefore can still hit the bastard.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 22, 2012, 09:05:33 AM
noone is stoping you from just using X or Zero in X5 and 6. Or X7 and 8 for that matter.
I said I did for X5 and X6. And X7 and X8 force you to pick pairs.

and yeah. Zero is, since when he needs to mess with Sigma's green fireballs, he just uses his defense move and reflects them at siggy. then fires a homing missile, and therefore can still hit the bastard.
Like Frost Titan
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 22, 2012, 05:19:30 PM
doesnt mean you HAVE to use the second character.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Melsurigan on October 22, 2012, 05:31:51 PM
Umm, guys?


Isn't this supposed to be a topic about X4? Let's get back on topic.


I think whoever was in charge of the dubbing was either a complete idiot or a complete genius, utilizing X's girly voice to poke fun at the character. Can you imagine a grown man whining about wars and destruction with the voice of a 10-year-old girl? And let's not get started with the... "Can you take care of me?" dialogue and all of its implications with said dub.

Oh dear god, the implications. As if Zero lost enough girls in his life.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Sakura Leic on October 22, 2012, 06:46:32 PM
X wasn't nearly as whiny back then though, in fact I love the voice acting for how hilariously bad it was Colonel especially.  The only decent voice acting was Sigma and maybe Dr. Wily though the Wily in Megaman 8 was better.

Honestly I can think of many other games with worse voice acting modern or otherwise, but for the time the voice acting was good.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Rin on October 22, 2012, 06:53:33 PM
but for the time the voice acting was good.
No. It was not. There came games with better voice acting before, during, and after the game's release.
See Lunar as an example. And it fits in each and every of those three categories.

It certainly was not gold, but it was still better. MUCH BETTER.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Sakura Leic on October 22, 2012, 07:10:51 PM
I'll take your Lunar and raise you a Chaos Wars, Megaman ZX Aile, and Arc Rise Fantasia especially Adele's southern accent and frigging NIKO, and these are all modern games.  That's why I say that Megaman X4 is not as bad as those.

But I do think that Medievil has some decent voice acting.

EDIT: Oh and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment's Tatsuya, so narmy.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on October 22, 2012, 08:16:53 PM
I think that Double had a good voice in MMX4, but should have been improved a bit
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 22, 2012, 08:18:34 PM
X was really the only problematic voice in X4, IMO.

Sigma was voiced by Wily, though i think he might have still done the few Wily lines in Zero's intro movie.

Colonel sounded appropriately stuffy and stuck up.

Zero's voice, (Duo) was ok, nothing too special, but not bad. Not good at screaming, that's for sure.

Double was pretty damn good- "I'M SOOOO ANXIOUS TO RIP YOU APART!" DAT DOUBLE.

Iris was... eh the accent just sounded weird.

General was, well he was just fine actually. I dug his voice.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Sakura Leic on October 22, 2012, 08:25:27 PM
Oh yeah I keep forgetting Double, I like his voice.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Sigma Zero X on October 23, 2012, 12:00:28 AM
I gotta be honest, I actually liked Ruth Shiraishi's voice performance as X.  Although it was not the most fitting role, her voice brought out the innocent side of X IMO.  

*Brings up flame shield.  
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 23, 2012, 01:09:41 AM
Umm, guys?


Isn't this supposed to be a topic about X4? Let's get back on topic.
Man it's so cool that X4 has two separate playthroughs like Mega Man and Bass.

Oh dear god, the implications. As if Zero lost enough girls in his life.
At the end of the game Zero's saber holes are empty, because he left his saber somewhere.

in fact I love the voice acting for how hilariously bad it was Colonel especially.
I will show you no mercy, now get ready!

No. It was not. There came games with better voice acting before, during, and after the game's release.
See Lunar as an example. And it fits in each and every of those three categories.

It certainly was not gold, but it was still better. MUCH BETTER.
Send. In. The. Clowns.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on October 24, 2012, 06:17:11 AM
Legends had marginally better voice acting than X4's. Some of the lines were stilted, the sheriff and policemen are hilariously performed, and Roll sounded a bit too tender most of the time, but for the most part it was a better production.

I gotta be honest, I actually liked Ruth Shiraishi's voice performance as X.  Although it was not the most fitting role, her voice brought out the innocent side of X IMO.  

*Brings up flame shield.  

Yeah, I hated when X was just a mostly silent badass hero.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_cALNP0pFM[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovpj4JSrCDw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKM6wVUQsmE[/youtube]

So 1990's. Now we need some wicked sensitive dudes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWrzNWYg7vI).

But he is. Inafune said it himself. Every game revolves around him. He's literally the central focus of every game until Axl takes the limelight.

X1? It's about Zero being radical and dying.

X2? Wily attempts to rebuild Zero and have him kill X, but is foiled.

X3? I actually have no idea what's canon with X3. Either Zero does the thing with his saber and the "cure", or X takes his saber and kicks ass. It's still about him. X is supposed to rely on his assistance the whole time, right?

X4-X6 are so blatantly about Zero I won't even go into detail.

And what happens in X7? Zero meets the new character and develops the first relationship with him.

Lord of the Rings is a single book, regardless of what happened after it was written by the marketers. What makes this any different?

We think so alike in this regard. Twin brother?

...I don't think my brain can process that statement unless I assume you're talking about one of the special boss fights.  X5's regular boss theme is the standard against which all audio torture is measured.

That theme pretty much epitomizes my distaste for the series' move away from face-melting SNES rock toward a more jumbly techno-trancy bent. X4 was the beginning, but it was at least compelling and awesome for the most part.

...he's not wrong, you know.  I mean, Inafune's idea of finality is, "Kill Zero and nobody will care what happens to the blue guy."

By that assertion, Inafune apparently didn't count on people liking Mega Man X primarily because they liked his gameplay, not because they thought his design or character were cool or familiar. His character might've been slowly assassinated as the series progressed, but his initial gameplay appeal lives on even against Zero's melee-style gameplay. I personally prefer it. That's why I'm not a huge fan of the Zero or ZX series.

This probably wasn't Inafune's writing at work, but this reminds me of Zero's comment in X5 about not needing armor to be strong. I'm probably just projecting this, but that always came off as a snide knock against the armor gameplay and/or X's character by proxy. Nevermind that Zero was given a "new armor" with his revival in X2 or that unarmored X is perfectly capable of winning the day. Dork.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img687/9050/chinku.png)

One of the best responses in a Mega Man board ever. Happy Chintober!

Man it's so cool that X4 has two separate playthroughs like Mega Man and Bass.

Hey man, Mega Man X4 is green. Recycling's cool, right?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: VixyNyan on October 24, 2012, 06:22:45 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_cALNP0pFM

Oh look, the commercial we found and hosted on the site, but never got credited for. Yay. 8D
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Align on October 24, 2012, 08:36:16 AM
(http://oi46.tinypic.com/k2zup0.jpg)
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Zan on October 24, 2012, 01:12:51 PM
Quote
So 1990's. Now we need some wicked sensitive dudes.

The concept of X's compassion has been a part of the series from the get go. Irregular Hunter X accurately represents it at the time of the first game.

Quote
By that assertion, Inafune apparently didn't count on people liking Mega Man X primarily because they liked his gameplay, not because they thought his design or character were cool or familiar. His character might've been slowly assassinated as the series progressed, but his initial gameplay appeal lives on even against Zero's melee-style gameplay. I personally prefer it. That's why I'm not a huge fan of the Zero or ZX series.

Nothing in those games stops you from using the buster all the time.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on October 24, 2012, 03:33:53 PM
The concept of X's compassion has been a part of the series from the get go. Irregular Hunter X accurately represents it at the time of the first game.

Yeah, but I didn't like how X's compassion was portrayed as the series progressed. His performance came off as forced most of the time, proved to be directionless (without much change or a satisfying resolution), and eventually devolved him into a secondary role with wishy-washy tendencies. At least with the first three X games, his emotional responses were either limited, implicit, or relegated to a third-person epilogue soliloquy. They flowed naturally with the game and didn't interrupt it, rather than standing in stark contrast with it.

It's kinda like how Cloud's development in FF7 was virtually ignored in Advent Children, effectively rewriting the character into a hopeless mope in order to send a message that weak people can be strong. That's cool, but don't throw the good parts of the character's history away to execute a pitiful drama fest. At worst, it just showed a terribly childish example of how to deal with remorse or adversity. Same with X: when his character boils down to talking about how fighting sucks while still fighting the same fight, like he's got no choice or alternative in the matter, that seems to me like poor storytelling and a bad message. While MHX sorta does the same thing, I agree that it restarted X's character in the right direction.

Nothing in those games stops you from using the buster all the time.

I know that, but I prefer how the X series focused on buster/armor gameplay versus how the Zero/ZX series focused more on melee gameplay. Just because I can play any of those games with the buster all the time doesn't mean it's the same.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 24, 2012, 07:48:41 PM
Zero series doesn't have to focus on melee. My main weapon is the Buster. and depending on my mood and the game my other one will be the Saber or the Recoil Rod. Except in 2 I go Chain Rod & Saber.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on October 24, 2012, 08:10:43 PM
The Chain Rod was fun. I think I had the most fun in the Zero series between Z2 and Z4; Z2 for the weapons and level design, and Z4 for the bosses and music. I should revisit them one of these days. Except Z1. It's so dull and plodding.

If nothing else, Capcom would be awesome if they released a Mega Man X collection for 3DS. I'd play the [parasitic bomb] out of it.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 24, 2012, 08:18:13 PM
Z1 is the most exciting [parasitic bomb] ever. Z4 is crap.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on October 24, 2012, 11:06:15 PM
No, man. No. You--NO. Nnnn--

I played some Z1 recently on a roadtrip. Got tired of it after 2-4 missions. Maybe I'd gotten too used to awkwardly dual-wielding buster-and-saber in ZX with four buttons instead of just two, but I couldn't be assed to keep going. The music was boring and the dialogue-delimited pacing got repetitive. I get that it was going for a more dynamic Mega Man experience, and it did that with the train, the big demolition tank (arguably my favorite part of the whole game), and the base invasion, but the whole experience lacked polish, didn't really engage or motivate me much, and leveling up my weapons wasn't fun. Maybe I just picked the most boring levels "missions" to start with:

Train >>> Desert >>> Lab >>> Power Plant

Also, before I can even start firing charge shots, I have to upgrade my buster to shoot a fourth shot. Lame ass. I ended up farming the same shooty tower things in order to be able to face Aztec Falcon @ Intro Stage 2 with a fist full of charged shot. Maybe it's just the fact that that's all I need to do to get stronger weapons that bugs me. It probably would've been more fun to find parts and have Cerveau upgrade my stuff instead of wacking at things until I get a +1 at wasting time.

But anyways, it's so cool that X4 is like two alternate realities in one game.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Zan on October 25, 2012, 01:24:32 AM
Quote
Same with X: when his character boils down to talking about how fighting sucks while still fighting the same fight, like he's got no choice or alternative in the matter, that seems to me like poor storytelling and a bad message.

I don't recall X's character ever truly devolving into a parody of himself. You might say X7 comes close, but in that one he actually gets more flack for actually sticking to his pacifism than for returning to combat at the end of the game.

Quote
No, man. No. You--NO. Nnnn--

I played some Z1 recently on a roadtrip. Got tired of it after 2-4 missions. Maybe I'd gotten too used to awkwardly dual-wielding buster-and-saber in ZX with four buttons instead of just two, but I couldn't be assed to keep going. The music was boring and the dialogue-delimited pacing got repetitive. I get that it was going for a more dynamic Mega Man experience, and it did that with the train, the big demolition tank (arguably my favorite part of the whole game), and the base invasion, but the whole experience lacked polish, didn't really engage or motivate me much, and leveling up my weapons wasn't fun. Maybe I just picked the most boring levels "missions" to start with:

Train >>> Desert >>> Lab >>> Power Plant

Also, before I can even start firing charge shots, I have to upgrade my buster to shoot a fourth shot. Lame ass. I ended up farming the same shooty tower things in order to be able to face Aztec Falcon @ Intro Stage 2 with a fist full of charged shot. Maybe it's just the fact that that's all I need to do to get stronger weapons that bugs me. It probably would've been more fun to find parts and have Cerveau upgrade my stuff instead of wacking at things until I get a +1 at wasting time.

What you ought to do, is throw your rank out the window. Manually forfeit all the mission after Aztec Falcon and go straight to the base invasion, followed by Neo Arcadia. It is a thrill to tackle the final area while your weapons are still upgrading; you'll be hoping for the occasional level-up once you hit tough times.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on October 25, 2012, 05:54:00 AM
I don't recall X's character ever truly devolving into a parody of himself. You might say X7 comes close, but in that one he actually gets more flack for actually sticking to his pacifism than for returning to combat at the end of the game.

For me, it started as soon as X got a voice and dialogue in X4. Once the uncooked ham of acting was thrown it, you knew the story and the characters were going to spoil fast. X7 ended up being the least subtle and most asinine about it in the context of an action game. Having your main guy bail on the fight to go pacifist while the series is still going comes off as bad timing. I might've been more interested in X's retirement if he had some sort of plan or place in the story other than sitting around and yell at people until you unlocked him. If he ended up going rogue and/or moonlighting as an adversary, then his character would've become much more interesting. Plus, it would've been a decent opportunity to turn him into a sweet boss. I'd still be pissed that he wouldn't be the main starting character, though; I'd actually prefer playing his perspective as a radical fugitive disillusioned with his duty as a Maverick Hunter.

What you ought to do, is throw your rank out the window. Manually forfeit all the mission after Aztec Falcon and go straight to the base invasion, followed by Neo Arcadia. It is a thrill to tackle the final area while your weapons are still upgrading; you'll be hoping for the occasional level-up once you hit tough times.

Oh, damn. I didn't realize Z1 was one of those games. You know the kind: X5, X6 ... Anyways, I'll try that out soon.

That kind of consequence-based dynamic gameplay is exactly the kind of stuff I want to see, but not executed like that. It's unintuitive, unguided, and unconventional gameplay.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Nexus on October 26, 2012, 09:21:45 AM
Oh, damn. I didn't realize Z1 was one of those games. You know the kind: X5, X6 ... Anyways, I'll try that out soon.

That kind of consequence-based dynamic gameplay is exactly the kind of stuff I want to see, but not executed like that. It's unintuitive, unguided, and unconventional gameplay.

Hoo boy, the moment I found out that dying in Zero 1 basically meant 'reload your save or you don't get a second chance' (outside of -very- limited retries), I about freaked out. X5 had an interesting approach, letting you continue with the plot / advance to the final levels at literally any time you want (with some randomization in there), but the first Zero game is just so cruel in how it handled that. Infact, the near-whole of Z1, while fun to conquer, is also so much more sadistic than the rest of the series. Even when its successors start that "GET AN A-RANK TO GET MORE MOVES" bullshit, at least it's optional moves rather than required, but Z1 just takes the cake in raw difficulty.

More on-topic, I still don't know what to think on the earlier voice actors of the X series. X4 was crummy, but it was a product of its era - much less a Capcom product, where any english dubbing was practically guaranteed to be poor. But I preferred corny and bad-yet-hilarious voice acting (unless it's X7's, simply put) to, well, X5's "BNPBNPBNPBNPBNPBNP BNPBNPBNPBNP BNPBNPBNP" sound. When sandwiched between X4, which at least had the animated cutscenes sprinkled about, and X6, which had every cutscene given voice acting with said VAs left without a dub (X Collection just seems so.. awkwardly silent, dammit), it's really annoying and feels very low budget-y.

Seriously, X6 was a huge rushjob (like Breath of Fire 4 was), yet somehow it feels less low budget than X5. Even X4 feels like it had more production quality in it, but then it's the only game alongside Super Rockman Adventure and Classic 8 to have animated FMVs - in the sense of literal anime / drawn animation - and all; just weird that the big ol' [intended] finale seemed kinda cheap.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on October 26, 2012, 02:43:16 PM
I think the difficulty of Z1 is culminated in large part by the new challenge of dual-wielding weapons, as well as the limited buttons at your disposal. It was like playing Mega Man X6 with an NES controller. Kind of awkward.

I wasn't aware Breath of Fire IV was a rush job. I liked III better, but I understand IV is the most successful or well-received of the series.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Hypershell on October 27, 2012, 07:49:04 AM
The full and sole reason Z1 is challenging is because it punishes you for using any upgrades in the game other than weapon levels.  Inticreates' concept of difficulty simply blows.

The concept of X's compassion has been a part of the series from the get go. Irregular Hunter X accurately represents it at the time of the first game.
Yeah, I distinctly recall X3's manual mentioning X hating violence.  That and text epilogues of the SNES games basically amount to X questioning why Reploids have to kill each other.

It's a shame that the crappy localization masks it, but X6 was perhaps the best presentation of X's character.  Throughout the series, "hesitation" is the name of the game when showing off X's big heart, but X6 was one of the rare times that X was both determined and compassionate.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on October 27, 2012, 06:22:35 PM
It isn't just the localization. It's the presentation. Also the way the game hides a crucial bit of story behind a grind wall. It's the same kind of low-budget, backwards, and ineffective approach to conveying plot and characters that X5 suffers from. Even with voices, X7 and X8 didn't fare too much better. I mean, I haven't seen an X game that's delivered a dynamite good story better than X1 or X4. The great thing about how story worked in those games is that, in X1's case, the story aligned perfectly with the player's basic motivations to progress: kick Vile's ass, and then get vengeance for Zero. In X4's case, it was an interesting story as well as a fun game. X7 established better moods during its numerous cutscenes, and it had a really interesting scenario of sanctioned vs unsanctioned Maverick Hunters, so it only began to approach the kind of interesting storytelling that X4 brought to the table. They could've even salvaged the whole "X isn't fighting" angle better from a story perspective; I would've made him a playable character with his own separate arc from Zero's & Axl's, maybe even breaking the play paradigm of 8-bosses and [parasitic bomb] to accommodate his personal quest.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on October 28, 2012, 02:15:48 AM
Only Zero had an interesting story in X4. XD
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Joseph Collins on October 28, 2012, 02:19:50 AM
Not true.  X and Magma Dragoon had some words.  But no anime cutscene together.  :(
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on October 28, 2012, 02:24:40 AM
Only Zero had an interesting story in X4. XD

I was talking more about the implication of Repliforce as criminals, and their responding with separatism. This is regardless of how X or Zero play into the story, because aside from a few differences, they're both the same. Kill bad guys, stop the coop, defeat Sigma, leave before place goes splodey.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Protoman Blues on October 28, 2012, 05:26:03 AM
I was talking more about the implication of Repliforce as criminals, and their responding with separatism. This is regardless of how X or Zero play into the story, because aside from a few differences, they're both the same. Kill bad guys, stop the coop, defeat Sigma, leave before place goes splodey.

Oh that aspect of the story. I thought that was kinda silly. I mean, an implication here and there and what looked like zero negotiation between the Repliforce and Maverick Hunters or govt. and hey, rebellion!
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Nexus on October 28, 2012, 06:19:35 AM
Oh that aspect of the story. I thought that was kinda silly. I mean, an implication here and there and what looked like zero negotiation between the Repliforce and Maverick Hunters or govt. and hey, rebellion!

"They think you're responsible for the fall of the city! Drop your weapons and come with us so we can clear it up!"
"YOU ORADAR US TO CAST ASIDE OUR HONOUR?! WE WILL DO NO SUCH THING"

minutes later

"THEY WANT US TO DROP OUR WEAPONS FOR INVESTIGATION. WHAT SHALL WE DO?"
"BUILD A GIANT-ASS SPACE CANNON SO THEY DON'T TRY TO KILL US ALL"

(http://i.imgur.com/tibhy.jpg)
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 28, 2012, 07:43:29 AM
coop
Dude it's coup. I'm saying this mostly because I feel it's important that everyone realize how silly Zero sounds mispronouncing it. Just wanted to make sure you were on the same page.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 28, 2012, 03:06:07 PM
"They think you're responsible for the fall of the city! Drop your weapons and come with us so we can clear it up!"
"YOU ORADAR US TO CAST ASIDE OUR HONOUR?! WE WILL DO NO SUCH THING"

minutes later

"THEY WANT US TO DROP OUR WEAPONS FOR INVESTIGATION. WHAT SHALL WE DO?"
"BUILD A GIANT-ASS SPACE CANNON SO THEY DON'T TRY TO KILL US ALL"

(http://i.imgur.com/tibhy.jpg)
Not all Reploids are smart indeed.

Colonel is pretty much SOLELY responsible for the Repliforce war.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Sakura Leic on October 28, 2012, 05:13:04 PM
Magma Dragoon is no better either, he started this thing because he wanted to fight against X and Zero and killed thousand of people just for that goal.

Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Nexus on October 28, 2012, 06:41:48 PM
Magma Dragoon is no better either, he started this thing because he wanted to fight against X and Zero and killed thousand of people just for that goal.

Instead of actually trying to clear their name appropriately or anything due to a blatant frame-up, though, they immediately claim the Maverick Hunters are trying to dishonor them and jump the gun in not only trying to separate into their own nation, but also build the Final Weapon. Really, Sigma had good reason to be laughing his ass off behind the scenes because of how completely idiotically the Repliforce handled the whole situation as a condoned military organization going against orders.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Zan on October 28, 2012, 08:00:10 PM
Who says they built Final Weapon?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 28, 2012, 08:12:21 PM
It's totally possible they already had the Final Weapon, and simply migrated to it as a base of operations once they left Earth.

Or it was some kind of super weapon/earth defense weapon left over from whenever and they appropriated it.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Nexus on October 28, 2012, 10:47:08 PM
Good point. Did any supplementary material ever detail Final Weapon, or was it just 'there' for the sake of the game's final levels?
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Karasai♪ on October 28, 2012, 10:51:40 PM
speaking of final weapon, how come it appears in X8?  o~O
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Joseph Collins on October 29, 2012, 01:34:29 AM
Because Optic Sunflower needed an orbital cannon.  That, or the same reason the Repliforce logo appears in Zero 1.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Gaia on October 29, 2012, 02:13:09 AM
Good point. Did any supplementary material ever detail Final Weapon, or was it just 'there' for the sake of the game's final levels?

In the regular eight levels, there was a train (which transported the building material), a jungle (to protect the weapon, possibly a decoy to throw off any enemy who dare to disrupt main construction), an arctic base (where the plans are stored), air force (to guard the core of the colony), cyberspace, laboratory (to possibly gather intellegence), volcaino (in pursuit of the traitor Magma Dragoon), and the marine base to quite possibly throw off X's trail/raid for supplies. Cyberspace was to test X as well as the first colonel fight in the memorial hall. The reploiforce began moving to space when the weapon was completed (thus the spaceport stage) and Colonel was sent to guard the station, being that stage's boss while the weapon was being launched into space (hence the weapon being shaped like a flower at a certain angle).
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Flame on October 29, 2012, 02:56:48 AM
speaking of final weapon, how come it appears in X8?  o~O
Noone says it IS final weapon.It looks kinda different. Has two big satellite wings on the sides.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Treleus on October 29, 2012, 03:14:49 AM
Oh that aspect of the story. I thought that was kinda silly. I mean, an implication here and there and what looked like zero negotiation between the Repliforce and Maverick Hunters or govt. and hey, rebellion!

It was handled stupidly, but it was a start. There should've been more story there, but action game.

Dude it's coup. I'm saying this mostly because I feel it's important that everyone realize how silly Zero sounds mispronouncing it. Just wanted to make sure you were on the same page.

Oh, I do. I just love referring to it every time I talk about X4. Makes me laugh.
Title: Re: X4 is really overrated
Post by: Ladd Spencer on October 30, 2012, 04:22:04 AM
Noone says it IS final weapon.It looks kinda different. Has two big satellite wings on the sides.
Two deathstars means there can be two final weapons.

Oh, I do. I just love referring to it every time I talk about X4. Makes me laugh.
:D