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Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Zero => Topic started by: Waifu on November 15, 2010, 11:52:16 PM

Title: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Waifu on November 15, 2010, 11:52:16 PM
I just as the title says, I didn't realize that a lot of fans hated MMZ4 but I guess it is not surprising seeing how the Dark elf isn't mentioned at all, the Guardians had "died" in an explosion, Weil apparently doesn't even need Omega or the Dark elf anymore and just wants to destroy the planet using some fake sun and not only that all the cool stuff such as the element chips are gone. Not mention the Z Knuckle gimmick is kind of limited and the parts system too redundant for my tastes, I guess I could understand why fans seem to hate this game except for the easy which allows new fans to play the game without getting all teary eyed over losing. I don't hate this game but it seems thatr everyone else does, Do you believe the reasons I stated above could be the truth?
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Hypershell on November 16, 2010, 12:10:00 AM
Who hates Z4...? o~O

Axing elemental chips to me is a plus, not a minus.  Simply palette-swapping one's charged attack kills whatever aspect of strategy that MegaMan is supposed to have.  Also, the game features a wider degree of control options, such as a switch for the Command Dash, and *FINALLY* adding the ability to switch the charge attack shortcuts on/off in Ultimate Mode (saber shortcut tends to interfere with EX Skills).  Zero Knuckle was a lot of fun, even if it does lack the ability to carry weapons in between levels.  Boss music is addicting.

While most Zero-series games IMHO were steady improvements over the earlier, Z4 did some things better and some things worse than its predecessor.  There are fewer EX Skills and nothing that really matches the usefulness/brokenness of Throw Blade and V-Shot.  Minigames aren't quite as interesting as last time either.  Mother Elf was dropped like a rock, yes, but the story is otherwise strong, and in terms of giving Zero (the character, not the series) a heroic send-off, Inticreates kicked the crap out of anything the X-series team could have ever hoped to accomplish.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on November 16, 2010, 12:21:53 AM
I think throw in the Shield boomerang, and Z4 would have been set.

Another thing it did right- it got rid of the ridiculous high rank needed to get the EX skills. instead, it was a matter of playing normal mode or easy mode in stages. If you used the weather changer to make the stage easier, you wouldnt get the EX skills.

I also liked the parts building system. I like how you could build the Galacta Junk (Black Armor) upgrade, (and then use it without having to sacrifice your 3 hit combo and charge shot)

However, and while Inti more than made up for it with Ox, I was disappointed by the lack of Z-Knuckle EX skills. Such as saaaay... I dunno... a ground punching Giga attack type move? Yeah, they could have gone further with the Z-knuckle as a weapon besides it just being a way to steal enemies powers.

but Z4 was great, and its music was kickass. you cant say Crash IV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDjixv0Ebao) wasn't (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqxVt1aobM) catchy as hell.

Too bad the vocals ruin the remastered version.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Align on November 16, 2010, 01:00:04 AM
I guess they're not used to a Megaman subseries actually ending OH ZING
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: VixyNyan on November 16, 2010, 01:06:26 AM
G ★ Star, all those threads you made these past months...
It shows that the opinions you gathered from people isn't always what it's cracked out to be.

We at RPM are very optimistic and love mostly every aspect of what the Mega Man games have to offer.

I personally love every Mega Man game and don't have anything against them or the characters.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on November 16, 2010, 01:15:53 AM
I guess they're not used to a Megaman subseries actually ending OH ZING
haha, good one.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Fxeni on November 16, 2010, 02:03:04 AM
I guess they're not used to a Megaman subseries actually ending OH ZING
This is sadly a big part of why people don't like Z4. I actually enjoyed it a great lot.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Sakura Leic on November 16, 2010, 02:05:52 AM
Zero 4 was a good game granted the Z-Knuckle wasn't very useful except for some parts and I never found out how to make the Sub Tanks.  It seemed pretty easy to me even in Normal Mode because I was able to beat 7 out of 8 stages, I couldn't beat Cocapetri beacuse of the stupid moving wall parts that kept smashing into me, I feel sucky.  Why do I suck at video games besides RPGs? :'(


G ★ Star, all those threads you made these past months...
It shows that the opinions you gathered from people isn't always what it's cracked out to be.

We at RPM are very optimistic and love mostly every aspect of what the Mega Man games have to offer.

I personally love every Mega Man game and don't have anything against them or the characters.
Yeah I've been getting that vibe from those threads too, I honestly never heard a lot of people here saying that they hated Zero 4 at all.  


Who hates Z4...? o~O

Axing elemental chips to me is a plus, not a minus.
Honestly the element chips never help me at all I just slash people with the saber.

This is sadly a big part of why people don't like Z4. I actually enjoyed it a great lot.
Yeah I actually like the series better when they actually have a end, the people who hate endings really don't know how good a end actually is.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Satoryu on November 16, 2010, 05:31:25 AM
This is sadly a big part of why people don't like Z4.

Really? I thought I was the only idiot that hated Z4's, and consequently, the Zero series' ending.

The story, in general, I wasn't crazy about. But the gameplay is top notch. It plays and feels the best of the four imo.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Hypershell on November 17, 2010, 01:36:23 AM
Another thing it did right- it got rid of the ridiculous high rank needed to get the EX skills. instead, it was a matter of playing normal mode or easy mode in stages.
God yes, how did I forget that one?
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Fragman on November 18, 2010, 12:02:47 AM
Personally I loved Z4.  The drastic changes in the game systems was a shocker at first but I eventually came to enjoy them.  I personally loved the easier to acquire EX skills.  It made the whole thing feel much more like a Megaman game should to me.

The storyline while omitting factors from the previous games did its own thing.  It's much darker than the rest of the series and that's saying something for a series that's already the darkest Megaman series yet.  It had heavy themes of sin, retribution, penance, forgiveness, and salvation running through the various characters. 

You can see the parallel drawn between Zero and Craft, who while taking different paths both in a way are trying to do the right thing but have caused tremendous suffering through their actions, and both end up paying the ultimate price in their final act to make a better world.

Meanwhile Weil's arc comes to a close as he reveals his true intentions never being driven by greed but only an overwhelming desire for revenge, making him the total antithesis of Zero's arc.  Both are responsible for a tragic and destructive history, but while Zero is trying to make things right, Weil is only striking out at the world as a whole.

Then you have Neige and Ciel.  Each of them being strong support characters who drive the story.  Without them it wouldn't come to this point.  Both of them ultimately having to find the courage to rebel against an oppressive authority and break away from society in order to achieve their own goals.  The only difference is Neige only wanted to escape, and Ciel actively fought back, though Ciel's actions clearly influenced Neige by the end who supports Zero when everything comes to its climax.  You usually don't see supporting characters who are so strong as both characters and as influences on the main character in a Megaman game.

Really I'm glad for Z4.  yes I'd like to have seen the mother elf and the guardians one more time but Z4 had its own narrative about redemption and death that they didn't exactly fit into.  So personally I'd say Z4 is by no means a bad game.  It's a vastly different game, and a brave direction in storytelling.  While I can see how it can throw some people off, I love it for the strong sense of finality it carries.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: MrBaryl on November 18, 2010, 12:24:04 AM
I agree with G ★ Star, Z4 just feeled too different for me, using Z-knuckle was boring and the stages were too short. most of the time it was incredibly easy to farm for items and the part building system was just horrid, they shouldn't have replaced the elemental chips and the music is not something to go crazy about.

Bosses were bleh, they should have made them resemble the bosses from X5, and that's why Pegasolta is the only one I like form the entire game, Weather system is another thing that shouldn't have existed, it doesn't change the difficulty that much and personally, It made some stages easier than they were.

No mention of the Guardians had to be the worst thing of the entire game, it's not like an explosion that didn't killed Zero actually killed them, and even though the other recistance member's are not that important they should have been in the game as well and not being mentioned at the end.

So far Z4 is my least favorite game but I don't think it should be hated for these reasons.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Fxeni on November 18, 2010, 02:22:05 AM
I dunno, I actually liked some of the changes they made for this game. They took some risks, and for the most part I liked them. I liked the design of a good portion of the bosses.

Weather system is another thing that shouldn't have existed, it doesn't change the difficulty that much and personally, It made some stages easier than they were.
Err... so it doesn't change the difficulty, but it made some stages easier?
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: KoiDrake on November 18, 2010, 02:47:00 AM
Bosses were bleh, they should have made them resemble the bosses from X5, and that's why Pegasolta is the only one I like form the entire game
Why? This doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: borockman on November 18, 2010, 02:53:44 AM
Without Z4 there is no Sol Titanion.

You know where I'm going with this.  8D
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: KoiDrake on November 18, 2010, 03:18:03 AM
But we had Poler Kamrous
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: MrBaryl on November 18, 2010, 03:20:45 AM
Err... so it doesn't change the difficulty, but it made some stages easier?

I meant a harder difficulty.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: The Great Gonzo on November 18, 2010, 03:25:08 AM
But we had Poler Kamrous

She's not feminine enough for the fandom, apparently. >.>

Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on November 18, 2010, 03:26:52 AM
Z4 was like they took everything wrong with the X5/6 Mavericks and made them better. Fenri Lunaedge was the [parasitic bomb]. He was like Wolfang crossed with Sonic the Hedgehog.

Quote
it's not like an explosion that didn't killed Zero actually killed them
Excpet Inti says it did kill them.

Quote
the music is not something to go crazy about.
Opinions, but I think that Z4 was the pinnacle of Zero series music. It definitely sounded different than the sound the previous entries had, but it was cool.

Also, on difficulty, I found the Wyyverns to be quite difficult. Especially in hard mode.

Quote
She's not feminine enough for the fandom, apparently. >.>
Lets be honest. If you took a blind look at Kamrous's sprite or image, and were never told a gender, would you think she was a female?
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Gaia on November 18, 2010, 03:58:23 AM
Lets be honest. If you took a blind look at Kamrous's sprite or image, and were never told a gender, would you think she was a female?

Kamrous is just one of those 'roids who's gender is put into question. I don't even know if mandrago is female or not, and not by the female-sounding voice clips it had.

No mention of the Guardians had to be the worst thing of the entire game

Sadly, when someone talks about either jack-[parasitic bomb] about 1/3rd of the group or the other two just praised by the other 1/2 of the fanbase, I nod my head and try to ignore it. And so far, I might be the only one who likes the crazed gunman out of the group.

However, I do like the music, "Nothing Beats" is one of my favorite tracks, along with the game's main theme. I by no means hate it, but nor do I love it, I just like it, it was fun, and it felt it made elf-breeding easier.

Having to gather elves by no means an easy task, but that lasted for three games and I thought some of them weren't very rewarding/annoying to get (Jackson, I'm lookin' at YOU. I can't obtain the damn Cyber Elf without hacking the games to get it).
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Hypershell on November 18, 2010, 03:59:28 AM
Excpet Inti says it did kill them.
To be fair they only said that after ZX was released.  Before that they said they were off helping other humans.

Quote
Lets be honest. If you took a blind look at Kamrous's sprite or image, and were never told a gender, would you think she was a female?
...since when is Kamrous female?
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: The Great Gonzo on November 18, 2010, 04:06:56 AM
...since when is Kamrous female?

I've seen some sources list her as female. Of course, there are other sources that claim Kamrous is male. (I haven't fought her before, so I dunno what the game itself says)
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: borockman on November 18, 2010, 04:28:48 AM
Now all this boss talk reminds me that Cubit Foxtar is male.

That is one evil trap right there...

...

This doesn't really contribute to the topic, does it?  8D
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on November 18, 2010, 04:15:25 PM
Quote
I don't even know if mandrago is female or not, and not by the female-sounding voice clips it had.
Except see, with Mandrago, she actually has a femenine shape to her, so you can get a better guess.

Now all this boss talk reminds me that Cubit Foxtar is male.

That is one evil trap right there...

...

This doesn't really contribute to the topic, does it?  8D
Best Megaman trap EVER.

Actually, probably the ONLY Megaman trap ever.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Hypershell on November 19, 2010, 01:32:35 AM
I really do not see a feminine shape to Mandrago at all.  Posture/body language, yes, but nothing in terms of the core design.

And I maintain that Foxtar's human form is a female image regardless of Foxtar's true gender, in accordance with fox demon lore.  The guy wears high heels, for crying out loud.  But I did notice the complete lack of femininity in the animal form.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on November 19, 2010, 01:39:44 AM
Dunno. To me, her design screams "sheeeeee"

On Foxtar- His "humanoid" form is definitely a female image. And his human sprite, I could swear has breasts.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Hypershell on November 19, 2010, 03:32:46 AM
About the closest thing to "breasts" that Inticreates has done with MegaMan, anyway.  That sprite has easily the largest hip curves of both Zero and ZX series, as well.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Karai on November 20, 2010, 07:12:04 PM
Z-knuckle? It's is my all time favorite weapon. Ripping enemies apart and using their carcass to destroy other enemies is so fun. I could play the whole game with it, without even using the Saber.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on November 20, 2010, 07:24:24 PM
Ripping enemies apart and using their carcass to destroy other enemies is so fun.
You just now made the Z-Knuckle sound extremely awesome. Even more you gave me an image in my mind of Zero doing just that.

Props.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Blackhook on November 20, 2010, 07:30:37 PM
In Zero's hands even a Squirt gun is a lethal weapon.
Zero 4 had it's awesome moments (Seriously, you meet all Einherjar on one screen!)
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Align on November 20, 2010, 08:09:47 PM
Such a wonderful "Oh [parasitic bomb]!!" moment, that was.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on November 20, 2010, 08:27:29 PM
In Zero's hands even a Squirt gun is a lethal weapon.

I LOVE how that's even possible during the fire mini mission. You can kill enemies by watering them. 8D

But then again, its not like the X series wasnt full of such moments... (Bubbles as a weapon? A water gun?)
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: MrBaryl on November 20, 2010, 09:15:17 PM
In Zero's hands even a Squirt gun is a lethal weapon.

Z-knuckle? It's is my all time favorite weapon. Ripping enemies apart and using their carcass to destroy other enemies is so fun. I could play the whole game with it, without even using the Saber.

Surprise, Zero already had HANDZ!

Zero 4 had it's awesome moments (Seriously, you meet all Einherjar on one screen!)

I still don't understand how they imprisoned Hell the Giant, of course assuming he is a prisoner and not some kind of guard.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on November 20, 2010, 11:35:29 PM
Surprise, Zero already had HANDZ!
He didnt have the ability to rip a weapon from the enemy's body though.

Quote
I still don't understand how they imprisoned Hell the Giant, of course assuming he is a prisoner and not some kind of guard.
THEY didnt. He was already there for a very long time. Didnt you read the character bios on the title screen..?

I mean, he recognized Zero in the tracks, didnt he?
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: MrBaryl on November 20, 2010, 11:52:44 PM
That doesn't mean that he was built there. He could have been imprisoned.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Treleus on November 20, 2012, 02:23:09 PM
Z4's my favorite Zero game. Maybe not as strong as Z2, but definitely the most streamlined and enjoyable of the series.

The music sells it for me. They hit their stride with Z4's soundtrack. Also the giant bosses were awesome: Carnage Force 0 and Hell the Giant. Also the minotaur guy with his hoppity-hop feet.

I barely used the Z Knuckle. It was neat, but really, it's all about the buster and saber. Or just the saber. I didn't get that much mileage out of using every Tom, Dick, and Maverick's dippy weapon. Didn't get much mileage out of the parts system either, and I didn't miss the element chips.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ-TvDKXizk[/youtube]

Nothing Beats Z4 for me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZEjB7Hwf2s&feature=relmfu[/youtube]

I'm Max Hot for it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh7ReuKGon0&feature=relmfu[/youtube]

Got a throbbing Power Field for it.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Da Dood on November 20, 2012, 03:44:42 PM
I dunno if Z4 is my favorite, but it's not my least favorite (that would be Z1... still a good game).

I love the Z-Knuckle. It's probably not as fast as just slicing everything, and after Chain Rod and Recoil Rod, I guess we were a bit spoiled as far as awesome novel mobility... but I have a lot of fun stealing enemies' weapons (a nod to the original Mega Man concept) and doing stuff like pulling the first boss's cords out.

Music is great, I agree.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Ladd Spencer on November 20, 2012, 07:41:29 PM
Z Knuckle is garbage. That game was like vomit of a really delicious meal. You could kinda smell Zero 2 somewhere in there, but it had long since been covered in bile.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Align on November 20, 2012, 09:30:16 PM
I didn't like Z4 as much as I liked Z3 but it was objectively a better game, I felt. Except for the Knuckle, and cyber-elf system.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Ladd Spencer on November 21, 2012, 12:08:43 AM
3 was great, but I preferred the first two over it. I like the leveling up a lot. Makes [parasitic bomb] hard as balls. Z4 felt empty emotionally. OK, Zero dies. And Ciel cries on a hill. It all felt so forced. Weil is back for some reason? Since when did they do that in Zero games? Each other had a new villain from the one prior who had bigger goals. Well, I don't really suppose Weil was a step up from Elpizo, but at least it was something. 4 is like 3 again but for no reason, and there's a guy with a gun on his arm, but even he felt lifeless. I can't even remember his name. All I can think of is Vent and Barrel, but neither of those is him.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Zan on November 21, 2012, 12:51:10 PM
Quote
Weil is back for some reason? Since when did they do that in Zero games? Each other had a new villain from the one prior who had bigger goals.

You might realize you never defeated him in 3, and left him in charge of Neo Arcadia. It's not an episodic story; it's continuous.

Quote
4 is like 3 again but for no reason, and there's a guy with a gun on his arm, but even he felt lifeless. I can't even remember his name. All I can think of is Vent and Barrel, but neither of those is him.

Craft.

And I think you need to play the game again without such preconceptions. It seems that you did not understand its purpose in the overall narrative.

Please read the attached document for further elaboration on the story of Z3 and 4.

Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Treleus on November 21, 2012, 02:53:25 PM
I liked how you actually dealt with humans in Z4 other than Ciel. That's the first time humans are not silent in the background of a sidescrolling Mega Man game.

Craft resigned himself to fighting for Weil because he controlled the world's energy and resources, which presumably is concentrated at Neo Arcadia. He figured rebelling against him was a losing battle, and forcing everyone to stay in line with his dictatorship was the greater good. The idea of him being a dark horse on account of a moral dilemma is interesting, but not well executed when the guy he's working for is so obviously evil and unjust. I don't really understand what the character was supposed to be thinking when he decided to capitulate to a mad dictator, saying that "there are no heroes" and "one person can't change the world" even though history begs to [tornado fang]ing disagree! Weil is one guy, and he single-handedly turned the human utopia that was Neo Arcadia into a prison camp for everyone. This was after Zero, a lone warrior, broke through Neo Arcadia's fighting force and assassinated its leader.

Craft was an ignorant tool, but he clearly didn't have to be.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on November 22, 2012, 12:29:33 AM
Z4 was good. They hit the high note with music and the skill system, although it felt somewhat less rewarding when you were guaranteed an EX skill just by playing the stage in a harder difficulty, and not by a nintendo hard ranking system.

Story was good, I liked how it followed Z3, and how it tied all the way back to the X series with the Colony Drop and Area Zero. I loved what they did with that.

Esperanto is still one of the best tracks in the series, and perfectly conveys the right mix of emotions for that stage.

That said, it didnt feel quite the same as the last 3. Felt smaller almost. Probably due to the lack of eternally present elements like the Shield Boomerang, the Big 3, and Neo Arcadia itself.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Amatiramisu on December 16, 2012, 11:02:39 PM
I'm typically not very fond of reviving threads, but I really had to add in my two cents to this.

Z4 is, for me, the high point of the Mega Man games. While I can't contest that Legends or Classic are inescapably wonderful series, Zero is, in my opinion, where Capcom (and I should give Inti due credit) finally integrated a great and emotionally charged story into their games. Granted, the X series had a pretty good storyline, it never really hit me in the feels like Z did, and always had this cheesy sort of "80's anime" feeling for me.

Zero 4 was initially the one I hated the most just for the fact that they changed the entire gameplay system on me. No more elemental chips. No more ranking-based EX skills, took out the two extra weapons and replaced them with the nigh useless Z-knuckle, everything felt out of place. But then I played through all the games again, and again, and I recently finished them once again on the DS. And now Z4 is my absolute favorite.

Just so you all know, I'll be speaking on my current opinions on them, not about my past ideas or experiences. Oh yeah, and there will be spoilers. (I'll mark them if anyone complains.)

Zero 1 felt like... Well, if I were to describe it in my own words, it felt like a toddler's first steps to me. It was like Inti was only just getting a hold of the universe. They didn't know what they were doing with this character or the story. They had a new series with a new gameplay system, and new characters that they were unfamiliar with besides the titular character. If you take an analytic view at Z1, you'd find the level design is bland at best and the music is hit-or-miss with essentially all the stages. They really stumbled through that game.

The second title however, is where they started getting ahold of what they were doing. They figured how what direction they were going to go with the series and I feel they put in more work to this game. The level design is top-notch. Definitely THE BEST in the Zero series. And the soundtrack was great. No more repetitive tracks. Plus, the new EX Skills and Armor Upgrades were icing on the cake. It was also the hardest in my opinion. (The bosses were [parasitic bomb] easy but those stages. Oh jeez those stages.) But that game is where they certainly nailed the gameplay of the series.

Z3 is where the series really kicks off in my opinion. Granted, it's the most forgettable about the series if you ask me. (I mean, gosh darn it they recycled the same resistance base from the previous title.) I also feel it lacked a bit of that "gritty guerilla edge" the first games had. (I mean I didn't feel the second game did either but it was still a little better as the resistance was still seemingly finding a good foothold in their new base). Instead this game felt more systematic, like you were a soldier being sent off from a well-establish military institution. But what really makes Z3 shine is that they emotionally charged the series. I mean, take a look at the environment and atmosphere for a moment. Some levels have a sense of tension to them, while some evoke a sense of regret. (I mean, listen to this track. LISTEN TO IT. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxa92PEQwqU)) Not to mention the inner conflict brought up during Z-man's encounter with Omega.

But Z4. Gais. Z4. This game. This game is where everything hit a high point. Where Inti really perfected the gameplay and the story, as well as wrapped it up in one of the best climaxes I've ever seen in a video game. I mean, this game's ending. It was better than any Zelda, Tales, Half-Life, what-have-you game I have ever played. I mean, for one thing, granted, they took out the most creative weapon in the MM series (The shield boomerang) and I was upset about that, they really made up for it. The level design isn't near what we saw in Z2 or Z3, but it makes up for it by adding one thing I felt the series was lacking all this time. Puzzles! I actually wandered around for a time at some points wondering how to get to a certain point or how to unlock something. And the Z-Knuckle was a really creative way to branch out pathways and go about puzzles and minibosses. I mean, remember, in Noble Mandrago's stage, tearing out those vines? Sure, you can just whittle away with the saber, or you can rip them apart in chunks and speed on through. Not to mention pulling those enemies out of their roots before they can become a remote threat in the least. Or what about in Lunaedge's stage, having to, on reflex, grab that keycard and carry it along THROUGH THE WHOLE LEVEL, to get a sub tank?
Plus, they finally perfected the combat. The EX Skills were seamlessly integrated into combat and I pulled off some sick combos speedrunning a stage or two a few times. Plus the bosses were more creative than any of the past ones. There was always a pattern or system of movement to them, and you always had to react at a split second even after memorizing what they did and how they attacked. And even then, they were still a great threat. The Z-Knuckle was a little useless, granted, but it made for a few fun moments, plus the delicious irony of using a V. Fire against it's own kind. But anyways...
Also the music. Oh gawd the music. I am a metalhead personally so that department gets a thumbs up from me right there and then. I mean, I was enjoying rocking out to Deep Blue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdH0Ihnr9fQ) and Celestial Gardens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eTHR5EqW3A) (dem drums!) and Queen of the Hurt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_4bUdZlkbA) (This one somehow had an MMX feel for me), but some of the music really gave a deep sense of atmosphere, specifically tracks like Sleeping Beast (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJJ_ItZDYdI), which really creeped me out, even at the rock interludes, Cyber Space (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoDHmXDcDQs), which evoked a really optimistic feel given the situation and how they had miraculously found a solution to their problem, and especially, Ciel d'aube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIizQ2Q6DKI) "And on that day, we lost something that can't be replaced".
But speaking of atmosphere, look at the plot. Look at the characters. Zero's death in the end was foreshadowed by the utter hopelessness of the situation. I mean, with Copy X and his chokehold over the world, with Elpizo and his godlike power, with Omega and him being an exact flawless replica, Zero only made it with his life by a hair. It was obvious with the pure scale of Ragnorok's power that there had to be a sacrifice, and our hero wasn't willing to let anyone else die. Then again, he never called himself a hero. He was always just putting in self-sacrifice for the sake of others. For me, this was especially tragic, as Zero finally began showing the same signs of humanity he had back in the early X games, before Iris' death. Notice he started cracking some sarcastic jokes and making fun of Cocapetri? It's like he was finally getting over his past pains and regrets, and then in the end, he was lost before he could enjoy life. But he also said to Craft, they were reploids built for war, and nothing else.
And speaking of Craft, the situation with Neige, the refugees, and him. I mean, immediately, we returned to the guerilla warfare style of the first game, where we are in a small undeveloped base with minimal resources. Plus, the added tention of defending the refugees, which were a specific driving point in the game's narrative. In the past games, it was all about the struggle of the resistance. But this time, it showed a darker, less militaristic side to the series. The refugees, without a home, running from oppression. Untrained in combat and gripping to the last dregs of nature. Neige as their leader, a confident reporter who is shown to be very wise in the end. And the tension between her and Craft. Their sinful romantic involvement with each other, the drama of their walking their own paths, and ultimately, Craft's realization of his purpose and his inhuman obsession with rectifying his wrongs, yet with the wrong means and wrong end. Whereas Zero fought ultimately for his friends' goals, Craft fought to end what seemed to be the source of the evil, at any cost, even threatening to sacrifice hundreds or thousands of innocents in the process. (Someone clear me up, what was Neo Arcadia's population again?)
Not bad for a few E-Rated games amiritegais?

But let me wrap this up here since I'm getting a little tired. The ending. The climax of the final battle between Weil and Zero. I mean, first of all, allow me to say how [tornado fang]ing EPIC THAT BATTLE WAS. I MEAN GOD DAMN. THAT BATTLE. I MEAN, ON A TIMER, BURNING UP IN THE ATMOSPHERE, TWO MINUTES TO SAVE HUMANITY, AND THE BEST [tornado fang]ing AWESOME GODDAMN FINAL BOSS MUSIC KNOWN TO VIDEO GAME [tornado fang]ing KIND. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhG8RC9xEcQ)

*gasp**gasp*

S-Sorry 'bout that.  -u-'

Anyways, Zero's sacrifice in the end was truly a great resolution to a great series. The epilogue, with Ciel's sorrow over Zero's death, given her (this is how I read into it anyways) unrequited love for him and his great friendship with all his companions, and how much he gave away to protect humanity...
Well, let me sum it up like this.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero. I have always only fought for the people I believe in."
Well Zero, you really were a hero to humanity.





PHEW. I'm glad I got all that off my chest. Sorry for the whole damn retrospective, I mean that was LONG. I MAY have to spoiler tag that all...
Sorry RPM. I promise I won't get sentimental again.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Treleus on December 16, 2012, 11:38:00 PM
Playing the games, I never connected with Zero because it seemed like he didn't exhibit any emotion at all. His expression never changed and there was too much talking and dialogue going back-and-forth for me to care. I guess I wasn't just that into it, but I can still agree that Z4 is the game that felt most good to me, or where I felt most invested into the story. It definitely had the strongest emotional content of the series because of Zero's sacrifice, but also because of who he was fighting for: not just Ciel and the reploids, but also for Neige and the humans. It was the interplay between these parties, and the one person fighting for them, that registered best with me from the Zero series. Weil and Kraft made great villains as well, even if the latter was really a dark horse.

Also, I'm disappointed you didn't mention Max Heat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NswzBEf8I4), easily the best stage tune in the game. I mean, goddamn. Trailer music wins.

Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Amatiramisu on December 16, 2012, 11:40:53 PM
I actually skipped Max Heat on purpose since it was mentioned earlier on in the thread.

I agree Zero is a really hard character to connect with because of how emotionless he is. But making an effort to read into his backstory and why he's like that, it makes him that much better a character.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Zan on December 17, 2012, 12:10:51 AM
Quote
while some evoke a sense of regret. (I mean, listen to this track. LISTEN TO IT.)

I prefer the original For Endless Fight.


Quote
(Someone clear me up, what was Neo Arcadia's population again?)

At the centre of Neo Arcadia, two million people instantaneously met their demise by Ragnarok's attack. It is also implicated that Neo Arcadia has literally thousands of districts. (Area Z-3079 was hit by Omega's missile.)
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Amatiramisu on December 17, 2012, 01:20:58 AM
Damn Zan. That's observant. That never clicked with me. So it's safe to say Neo Arcadia's population was somewhere up in the billions then?
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Align on December 17, 2012, 02:09:11 PM
Hum... can't believe this didn't occur to me before, but do you guys think For Endless Fight is meant to contrast with For Great Justice? A lot could be read from that...
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Treleus on December 19, 2012, 10:32:41 PM
At the centre of Neo Arcadia, two million people instantaneously met their demise by Ragnarok's attack. It is also implicated that Neo Arcadia has literally thousands of districts. (Area Z-3079 was hit by Omega's missile.)

I missed that detail. I thought the bulk of them were evacuated beforehand or something.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Zan on December 20, 2012, 01:47:56 AM
The Resistance was only able to aid those that survived the initial attack. Also, my memory is shoddy; twenty million is the correct number. Allow me to post the translation to Vile's Incident I got, many might not have seen it:

Quote
Preface:

 Two years have already passed since Neo Arcadia's destruction.

  December 16th. 3:31 in the afternoon. The beam fired from the fort-satellite Ragnarok pierced
the center of Neo Arcadia and destroyed its main pillar. There were more than twenty million victims,
and in a mere few seconds the capital's functions/faculties vanished. And in that day, Neo Arcadia's
"Dark Ages", dictated/ruled by the man called "Doctor Vile" came to an end.

  This unprecedented disaster, together with the political chaos that came before it, is today
generalized as Vile Incident. But, because of things like the mass-media chaos that followed,
the number of people who understand/grasp it as a whole is suprisingly low.

1)[Nowadays, instead of becoming more and more dependant on the ruins of Neo Arcadia - the
utopia that provided us water supply, energy and food and until now - the great majority of the
population is moving from the dome city to its periphery.] Many people are trying to establish
their lives on Area Zero, where nature has started regenerating itself.

  We, that have been protected by the hero, X, and received comfort and protection, have
learned many things from our strict daily life, been blown by the nature's wind and feeling
the passage of the seasons. 2)[How much have people ever thought about things like the fact that
mankind has the strength to survive in this planet?]

  3) [In a certain day, a girl that had seen the true sun for the first time after the destruction of
the dome city, entered my working place showing her pitch-black sun-tanned skin]. Then, she
innocently asked "Why do all grown-ups call the dome 'utopia'?"

  4)[We, that are turning our eyes from too great of a loss, now wonder about what we can do,
and as adults who survived December 16th, our chests tremble.] 5) [Having to tell them, our
children, about the truth, we succumb to an indescribable impatience.]

  This is the chance we have to publish te records of the Vile Incident. Everything we've been
piling up was stolen, a nightmare reduced to zero. 6) [But, when we talk about this incident, rather
than regretting that day of destruction, we have to wisely grasp the current situation from
the past.]

  I'd like to end this long preface thanking not only Neige, but also a lot of other people who
cooperated in collecting this/these precious data. Without their assistance, this book would
never come out to the world.
  And, above all things, I strongly wish that these memories don't get (covered) by our
personal weaknesses.

Montagne


Suppression:

Regarding the Vile Incident, the one thing we can't deprehend is
the answer to the question "What kind of person/Who was Doctor Vile?".

  The picture on the next page was obtained from the ruins of a library of an old age, and is
a register of the/a great war of the past. There are still many hidden facts about this picture,
which shows something that was certainly atrocious.

But, even if we only have information that was clearly shown in official announcements,
it's enough to learn about the past. Doctor Vile was playing a role in the gruesome war of
more than 100 years ago, and for that reason he was banished from Neo Arcadia as a
criminal. But at that time, the pro-mankind, utopic nation buried "Human Vile"'s grave sin
into history's darkness without revealing it. Then, a very long time made even that Neo
Arcadia forget about Vile's riskiness.

  1)[If there is a reason that justifies the Vile Incident, it was surely is the deception that
respected its reputation.]

(under the picture) -> 002 - That instant.
005 - 2) [The giant repliroid that was released during the closing period of the great war.]
In the back, silhouettes that resemble Neo Arcadia's giant mechaniroids can be seen.



Coup:

Doctor Vile was ingenious.

  April 23rd. The assassination of the hero, X, by the Resistance, was announced by Vile. He
immediately became Neo Arcadia's temporary leader by applying the rules' (/Constitution)
8th paragraph, and had the terrorists' subjugation approved by the Congress. This unusual
situation was quickly notified to the whole dome city, and he seized the real power in the
twinkling of an eye.

  Thus, Vile's dictatorial administration was established overnight.
  That was the first time that the Resistance and the legendary Repliroid named Zero were
taken as a threat by Neo Arcadia's citizens.

  Then, the Dark Ages under Vile's domain had started. Neo Arcadia wasn't a comfortable
cradle anymore, but a prison shivering with/in poverty and terror. 1) [Through an insistent warning
which only goal was to drive mad the natural course of justice (/justice's natural course), and
a publicity that incited hatred towards the Resistance, even the popultaion's spirits were being
changed into a inferior/coarse thing.]

  2) [The ones who opposed Doctor Vile, even humans, were labeled as Irregulars and eliminated.]
Ironically, the government of terror in which the dictator binded the humans was a lot like the
anti-Irregular policy in which Neo Arcadia once binded the Repliroids to (/that Neo Arcadia
once applied to the Repliroids).

  Then, unable to resist living in that changed utopia, the caravan formed by Ms. Neige started
mediating the humans' escape to Area Zero, the place where the gigantic colony, Eurasia, had
previously fallen, and nature had recovered itself. Again, the escape of the caravan that wished
for freedom strongly resembled the situation when the Repliroids were helped by Doctor Ciel,
and organized the Resistance.

  In times of crisis, when dignity is lost, the actions humans and Repliroids take is the same.

(under the picture) -> 007 - An image of the hero, X, and Doctor Vile, published
illegally by an old information bureau. The sound file was damaged.


Evil Intentions:

The Ragnarok Strategy -- a devilish act to transform every inhabitable (?)
area other than Neo Arcadia into wastelands, in order to push humanity forever into the
agony shell that was the Dome City. 1) [The aspects of our precious nature, exposed to that
crisis, that were transmitted in details inside the dome were new to us, who lived through
those times, and to our minds.]

  In the period of peace, the thing that the majority of us, humans, wasn't interested in our
truth-telling media was the stern truth. 2) [When Ms. Neige decided to go against the real
crisis that was Vile's administration, not choosing cameras, but building a caravan, the
media in Neo Arcadia was nothing more than a sweet decorating the tranquility.]

  3) [The dictatorship allowed the close observation of the media as a thin lifeline
for survival, and at the same time made the citizens scared (?).] The people were
continuously made fun of by the ingenious brainwash. Its representation was the destruction
caused by the eight warriors of the Einherjar, orderded by Commander Kraft, who wore a
green cape. When he, who was a senior soldier of Neo Arcadia, appeared as the leader of
Vile's private army, we trembled with fear because, through Ms. Neige's interview, he wasn't
a warden like the Four Guardians, but was known as a friendly Repliroid in town.

  When Doctor Vile made the 8 Judges, his close aides, work to establish his government, he
always took the decisions personally. This was originally his way to do things, as the dictator
he was. However, in the Ragnarok Strategy, he left the command to Kraft with a certain share
of freedom. On the contrary, the 8 warriors (of the Einherjar) and the Repliroids who weren't
built by Vile were greatly confused.

  The dictator wanted to make the Repliroids start a war once again. 4) [He wanted to
make a war in which there wouldn't be a winners or losers, justice or anything else;
only a bleak land of death, which would make all people despair upon seeing.] That's why
Kraft, who was close to the humans, was chosen as a commander.

  When I saw the article about the Ragnarok Strategy, I made an appointment and visited
the trailer, so I could get information for Ms. Neige. When I explained the meaning of this
text, she, who had seen the incident closely, calmly tilted her head, asking for an interview.
In exchange, she gave me a sweat-stained photograph, which appeared to be rottening (?).

  When I laid my eyes on it, I couldn't help asking "Is it really OK?". Certainly, we couldn't
forgive that Repliroid, who had pulled the trigger to ultimate destruction. But Neige, the
journalist, didn't want to hide the truth.

(under the picture) 009 -> 5) [The escape was being exposed to the Doctor Vile crisis because of the caravan groups. The one who often helped them was the one who was said to be from the Resistance Army. Photograph taken by Ms. Neige.]


Fate:

This picture is from a time earlier than the Vile Incident;
a time when things were still going well. A memory from a time when the gentle hero, X's utopia was still a paradise, little by little starting being enclosed by the shadow that we, humans, were seeing, but pretending not to see.

  As a journalist, Ms. Neige was collecting data about the Repliroids who fought for the humans. She had been traveling for some time along with Kraft, the leader of the expedition.
  1) [It is obvious to me that I don't have what it takes to be able to criticize the vivid life of humans and Repliroids. However, I can re-think about the fact that happened after it.]

  The journalist, Ms. Neige, was commanding a caravan that guided people (in) escaping from Vile's administration. And Kraft, who was reported as the town's hero, was receiving orders from Vile and taking command of the Ragnarok Strategy.

  When we think of Kraft as another protagonist of the tragedy, we humans can't help being bitter. That is because he was a symbol of the Repliroids' condition in Neo Arcadia.

  In the times of the hero, X, the utopia was controlled by the rule of "protecting the humans". 2)[Because of that, the Repliroids were worried about being under the principle of the "human supremacy", and the ones who were forced out of the "frames" (?) were subjugated as Irregulars.] 3)[_________.]

  Kraft, who may have had a precious something he wanted to protect, chose the way of obeying Vile, even if he was evil.

  We, that were living in Neo Arcadia for several months of darkness, knew that in spite of everything, most of the Repliroids wouldn't rebel against the "human" Vile.

  Maybe that was what distinguished them from Zero - the legendary Repliroid who had a strong spirit.
  If at least humans and Repliroids could have a good relationship, couldn't that heavy "frame" (?) have been destroyed? If there wasn't a deep despair, Neo Arcadia's centennial history could have been put to an end by Kraft, and maybe he could have become a hero.

(under the picture) 011 -> Ms. Neige and Kraft


Collapse:

3 hours and 31 minutes in the afternoon. The main cannon of the orbiting sattelite-fortress, Ragnarok, went through the central part of Neo Arcadia and destroyed it without leaving any traces. After that, the Congress was extinguished; the dictator, Vile's circumstances were unknown, and the capital's functions were completely destroyed.

  In the same day, there was the shooting of Ragnarok's sub-cannon.

  The residents of Neo Arcadia, weren't aware about the existence of the fort-satellite Ragnarok; 1)[the ones who lived within the sphere (?)], 2)[___] 3)[took the facility (?) and fate as one.] There were more than 20.000.000 victims, and even now we don't know exactly how many have died.















Preface -> 1) [Genzai, wareware wa energy ya suidou shokuryou plant wo imada risoukyou - Neo Arcadia atochi ni tayori tsutsumo, jinkou no daitasuu wa dome toshi kara shuuhen e to kyo wo utsushite iru.]
2)[Ningen ni kono chijou de ikinuku chikara ga aru nado to, katsute dore hodo no mono ga kangaeta darou.]
3)[Aru hi, dome toshi houkai igo ni hajimete honmono no taiyou wo mita hitori no shoujo ga, makkuro ni hiyake shita hada wo mise birakashi ni, watashi no shigotojou ni haitte kita.]
4)[Ooki sugiru soushitsu kara me wo sorashiteiru wareware ga, ima, dekiru koto wa nan nano
darou to, 12 gatsu 16 nichi wo ikita otona to shite mune ga furueta.]
5) [Kanojo tachi, wareware no kodomo tachi ni jijitsu wo tsutaenebaranai to, iishirenu aseri
ni karareta no da.]
6) [Daga, kono dekigoto wo kataru kiwa/sai, wareware wa hametsu no ichinichi wo uramu yori,
chie no yubi de kako kara ookiku jitai wo toraenakereba naranai.]

Suppression -> 1) [Bairu jihen ni gen'in ga aru to sureba, masashiku sono taimen wo omonjita
giman datta to iwazaru wo enai.]
2) [Taisen makki ni tounyuu sareta tooboshiki oogata repliroid.]

Coup -> 1) [Seigi no houkousei wo kuruwaseru dake ga mokuteki no youna shitsuyouna miseshime to, Resistance e no zouo wo karitateru senden ni yori, juumin tachi no seishin seikatsu made ga retsuaku na mono ni nurikaerarete itta.]
2) [Doctor Vile ni sakarau mono wa, ningen dearou to Irregular no rakuin wo osarete shobun sareru.]

Evil Intentions -> 1) [Kichou na shizen ga kiki ni sarasareru yousu ga chikuichi, dome nai de houdou sarete ita koto wa, ano jidai wo keiken shita wareware no kioku ni atarashii.]
2) [Neige shi ga Vile seiken to iu honmono no kiki ni tachimukaou to shita toki, camera dewa naku caravan wo eranda you ni, Neo Arcadia ni okeru media wa anraku wo irodoru amai okashi de shika nakatta.]
3) [Dokusai seiken wa houdou wo, ikinobiru tame no hosoi inochizuna to shite chuushi sase, douji ni kyoufu wo juumin ni surikonda.]
4) [Shousha mo haisha mo nai, kouryou to shita shi ni daichi wo mae ni subete no mono ga zetsubou suru you na, seigi mo nanimo nai sensou wo sasetakatta no da.]
5) [Caravan tai ni yoru dasshutsu gyou wa Doctor Vile kara no kiki ni sarasarete ita. Sore wo tabitabi sukutta no wa, ano Resistance gun datta to tsutaerarete iru. Neige shi ni yoru satsuei.]

Fate -> 1) [Watashi nado ni mochiron, hito to Repliroid no senretsu na iki (?) wo ronpyou dekiru shikaku nado ari wa shinai. Tada, sono ato ni okotta jijitsu wo omoikaesu koto ga dekiru no mi da.]
2) [Soshite Repliroid tachi wa, nayami nagaramo ningen shijou shugi no moto, waku kara hamidashita mono wo Irregular to shite toubatsu shiteita.]
3) [Wareware ga karera ni, ningen wo mekura mokuteki ni itadaku koto wo shite kita kara da.]

Collapse -> 1~3)[kennai no kyojuusha wa, nasu sube mo naku shisetsu to unmei wo tomo ni shita.]
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Treleus on December 20, 2012, 05:38:30 PM
Like the Sky Lagoon falling, the magnitude of the tragedy seems so ... distant. Like an inserted afterthought.

It's like the X and Zero series want to be serious, but also for kids? I dunno.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Amatiramisu on December 20, 2012, 08:56:34 PM
Like the Sky Lagoon falling, the magnitude of the tragedy seems so ... distant. Like an inserted afterthought.

It's like the X and Zero series want to be serious, but also for kids? I dunno.

That's my biggest issue with these two series. Their stories are better suited for a more mature audience. The Classic, Legends, BN, and SF series are all more appropriate for children. (Maybe ZX too. Verdict's still out on that one.) Someone, I think it might have been Sakura Leic, said that Capcom should start "maturing" at least SOME of the Mega Man series. I agree.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Flame on December 20, 2012, 09:48:56 PM
the problem is they never really give us a glimpse of humans. They dont show crowded city streets or anything, so we cant really get a scale of the kind od carnage that the drop of Sky Lagoon caused. Or Eurasia.
Title: Re: I had no clue that lot of fans hated MMZ4
Post by: Treleus on December 20, 2012, 10:35:56 PM
There's just very little perceivable gravity to stuff that happens in these worlds, because the characters being focused on have little connection to it themselves. The drama is focused instead on what directly happens to them or, as the player, to you. The latter is where and why I think Mega Man X succeeded in telling a story: it was about you through the character, or vice versa. The games after that tried to get you to care about the overarching plot, which focused more on Zero and Sigma and less on X, i.e. you. Once X4 split "you" up, this culminated the shift of focus begun by X2. So, the plot involved both of them, but was more focused on Zero's importance to the plot; X became more an optional vehicle driving towards the unfolding of Zero's importance, in that he was the progenitor of the virus and Wily's last attempt to crush Dr. Light's creation(s). Take Zero out, and it's just X (you) and Sigma (or any other 'enemy'). The rest of the world remains a distant group of spectators.

With Mega Man Zero, you have more connections to the world in the form of Ciel and the resistance base, but even there I don't think the games do a good enough job of deepening those connections and making them meaningful. How much did you actually care about Ciel and the resistance base? You might like them, sure, but did you care whether or not they lived or died? Some of them were cute, like Allouette and old Andrew, while only a few (or one) actually helped you, like Cerveau and Ciel, but I never had a moment where I felt like my actions determined whether they lived or died. I never felt tense. The only exception I can think of is the boss fight with Aztec Falcon, but not only was that a pretty easy fight, but chances are you died before the garbage disposal shredded the Resistance members. While I can say Mega Man Zero is the darkest Mega Man has ever been, it's still more of an action game to me--and a hard one--than a dramatic experience.