RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Topic started by: Zan on November 15, 2010, 10:52:05 PM
-
Recently we've been receiving more and more information about the story behind Rockman Online; a strange far future world was revealed to us, with little in common with the Rockman ZERO and Rockman ZX series, other than both sharing the world of classic Rockman and Rockman X as its past.
Strange for a Korean-exclusive such as this, both the quantity and quality of information given about the past leading to Rockman Online, has simply been astounding; not only have they accurately referred to the events of the end of the irregular wars as documented by Rockman ZERO, they also gave us new unique, yet fitting insight about other aspects of the Rockman world.
As such, I've been wondering for a while now; what is the canonical validity of this title in regards to the main storyline? Other than the entire premise being quite out of the ordinary, I've seen preciously little to doubt it. But I'm wondering what other people think of this and how we will treat it as a community.
Adding to this, we've just now received word that Cinnamon, from Command Mission, will be appearing in Rockman Online, with a strange mention of visions from what seems another world, in which "Neo Arcadia" exists instead.
As you may know, the games after X6, Command Mission especially, have always held an unclear relation with the story of Rockman ZERO, which has only become more unclear with the complete disregard for these titles in the Zero Collection timeline.
So what are we to think now? Does the story branch from Command Mission into Rockman Online and Rockman ZERO? Or does it begin branching as early as X6? Rockman Online definitely carries a premise highly reminiscent of X7 and beyond, which Rockman ZERO does not have, outside of ZX Advent.
So.. discuss?
-
As such, I've been wondering for a while now; what is the canonical validity of this title in regards to the main storyline?
Would it be too cynical of me to say "absolutely none"?
Even if Capcom is okay with the fact that everyone besides the Navigators is dead, it's...well, the only licensed game out of many to end up in R20 was RnF2, the Japanese one. :/ (There was that RS-MM group shot, too, but the first episode was released there, subbed-only--maybe that was the reason for its inclusion)
-
Am I the only one shocked that Zan is asking these questions?
-
As you may know, the games after X6, Command Mission especially, have always held an unclear relation with the story of Rockman ZERO, which has only become more unclear with the complete disregard for these titles in the Zero Collection timeline.
I dont see why people actually still wonder that about X6+ all because the ZC timeline doesnt mention them. it doesnt mention X2-4 either, if I recall, and nobody questions them.
-
everyone besides the Navigators is dead
w...what?
When and where did all this information about RO appear anyway? I haven't noticed anything since the thread here on RPM died.
-
When and where did all this information about RO appear anyway? I haven't noticed anything since the thread here on RPM died.
That's what I remember hearing. (Also, Protodude and TMMN have some info on RO)
-
Protodude's corner and MMN mainly.
-
I dont see why people actually still wonder that about X6+ all because the ZC timeline doesnt mention them. it doesnt mention X2-4 either, if I recall, and nobody questions them.
That's kinda akward, but my guess this is just another side story, but only with a Zombie involved (there is more than one meaning for this word).
-
Would it be too cynical of me to say "absolutely none"?
Even if Capcom is okay with the fact that everyone besides the Navigators is dead, it's...well, the only licensed game out of many to end up in R20 was RnF2, the Japanese one. :/ (There was that RS-MM group shot, too, but the first episode was released there, subbed-only--maybe that was the reason for its inclusion)
Capcom of Japan is involved with this project, actually. It is a joint venture between Capcom of Japan and Neowiz. Which is one reason why this is actually a discussion instead of simply ignoring the game outright.
Furthermore, disregarding the weirdness of the premise (we don't know what's been going on with the Navigators just yet), I'm much more concerned about the information revealed about the past that it shares with Rockman ZERO; the world of classic and X. There is a wealth of information provided to us that is simply amazingly indepth, and wholly believable.
Am I the only one shocked that Zan is asking these questions?
I'm opening this discussion for the sake of being free to cite Rockman Online as a valid source, without constant remarks of "Rockman Online is not canon."
w...what?
When and where did all this information about RO appear anyway? I haven't noticed anything since the thread here on RPM died.
Rockman Online takes place several hundred years after the X-series. After X and Zero but also the Sigma Virus are gone, the irregular wars having come to an end. However there is a sudden resurgence of irregulars, which leads to the world government deciding to clone the legendary heroes of the past using their DNA data.
Since it seems not many people saw the wealth of information from the beginning of last month, allow me to select a few quotes I found very interesting. Sourced from:
http://www.themmnetwork.com/2010/10/04/detailed-rockman-online-blog-info/
Wily:
“As god made man in his image, the birth of humanoids is simply humanity’s first step to becoming gods.”
The backstory of Rockman ZERO:
X is a legendary Irregular Hunter who worked to destroy the Sigma Virus, which causes destructive behavior in a repliroid, turning it into an Irregular.
He eventually won his battle against the Sigma Virus, and after confirming the world was in peace, went to eternal rest.
For ages, mankind and repliroids believed that the Sigma Virus had been completely eradicated.
Zero is the masterpiece of Dr. Wily, who tried to use Humaroids (humanoid robots) to take over the world.
Zero is known to be the the original host of the Sigma Virus, which turns repliroids into Irregulars, and openly acknowledges that fact himself.
However, despite that dark past, Zero defeated countless irregulars with his undying belief in what’s right, and always trusted the sometimes unsure X, supporting him by his side.
Suffering Circuit:
X was originally classified as a B-Rank Hunter. Unlike other repliroids, he had the ability to “suffer”, which caused him to avoid conflict and limited his combat capabilities. However, the reason he was able to become a Special A-Rank Hunter and become a legend was that he was able to grow stronger due to his suffering, and that he had a heart of gold.
He always hesitated and was always worried, but once he made a decision he never turned back on it. I want you to think about that aspect of X in the slightest instead of just desiring power. A man who thinks long and hard before his conviction that always goes by his beliefs
Z-buster:
Zero originally used a Buster like X, but during the first of the Irregular Wars caused by Sigma, by giving his parts to X so that he could defeat Sigma, his buster functions become virtually useless. Because it was a weapon designed by Dr. Wily’s earlier technology, there was no means to repair it at the time, and thus he gained a new weapon, “Z-Saber”, a powerful beam sword.
Duo, Evil Energy, Sigma Virus:
What you must always keep in mind is that Duo has complete immunity to the “Sigma Virus” which causes a fatal error in free-willed robots, and all other variations and similar viruses.
In addition, Duo Types have the ability to detect viruses or Irregulars with negative intent.
And then there's the mystery of "Neo Arcadia":
http://www.themmnetwork.com/2010/11/15/rockman-online-introduces-cinnamon/
-
I really want to know how they want to explain the "cloning" of Duo. He is still the most mysterious character of the Rockman series.
-
..."Humaroids"?
-
Robot master
-
Yeah, I gathered. It's a stupid name, is all.
-
Furthermore, disregarding the weirdness of the premise (we don't know what's been going on with the Navigators just yet), I'm much more concerned about the information revealed about the past that it shares with Rockman ZERO; the world of classic and X. There is a wealth of information provided to us that is simply amazingly indepth, and wholly believable.
Even with all the info, I'm hesitant to accept it as in-continuity to the mainline games until CoJ puts it in an official timeline, at least. God knows how well extracting game canon from uncertain sources worked for the fandom. >.>
I really want to know how they want to explain the "cloning" of Duo.
Same here, and I also want to know why they went with the double dick move of "everybody's dead, Dave"/"All the player characters are retools/recolours of these three schmucks". :/ (Okay, maybe the first can be easily explained)
-
At this time, I don't really consider this to be canon. I think this game is set in a different dimension.
-
Z-buster:
Zero originally used a Buster like X, but during the first of the Irregular Wars caused by Sigma, by giving his parts to X so that he could defeat Sigma, his buster functions become virtually useless. Because it was a weapon designed by Dr. Wily’s earlier technology, there was no means to repair it at the time, and thus he gained a new weapon, “Z-Saber”, a powerful beam sword.
Which is totally why he has one in X2 and X3.
Not to mention he was REBUILT by the "Most-likely-is-Wily" Serges. with TWO NEW BUSTERS
Unless it refers to things like weapon copying, which so far, we have never seen Zero do with his Buster. (And by that, I mean he has never acquired a buster weapon like X does,)
And Tatsucap confirms that he can still actually utilize a charging buster, tatsucap Zero being from Post X7.
-
Even with all the info, I'm hesitant to accept it as in-continuity to the mainline games until CoJ puts it in an official timeline, at least. God knows how well extracting game canon from uncertain sources worked for the fandom. >.>
Even if we place it outside of (Rockman ZERO) continuinity; as a strange alternate paralel future of the classic and X-series. It still reveals to us information of the past shared with Rockman ZERO. How do you feel about that information assisting us in our understanding of those series?
Which is totally why he has one in X2 and X3.
Not to mention he was REBUILT by the "Most-likely-is-Wily" Serges. with TWO NEW BUSTERS
Unless it refers to things like weapon copying, which so far, we have never seen Zero do with his Buster. (And by that, I mean he has never acquired a buster weapon like X does,)
And Tatsucap confirms that he can still actually utilize a charging buster, tatsucap Zero being from Post X7.
It's explaining why Sagesse equipped Zero with the Z-saber, which he was not originally designed with; a backup in case Zero loses his buster functions once again.
This is a perfectly valid explanation, as to Sagesse, there's no guarentee Zero will allow him to do the repair, leaving Zero in the hands of people that do not understand Wily technology.
That Sagesse did construct Zero with a new buster is largely irrelevant to the origin of the Z-saber in relation to Zero losing his original buster functions in the first war.
-
I'm... gonna side with Zan on this. Not everyone just pulls things out of their ass and well. A lot of this info answers questions. Questions that have been wondered about without a solid yes or no, for years.
Rockman Online is very welcome in my book and might be another alternate take on the "What if the ZERO series didn't happen?" notion.
Honestly, didn't know that about the Z-buster. I'm sure someone will chide in and say "omg lol, n00b, I knew dat" and I'll just ignore you, as I'm not even supposed to be here... but yes. Interesting bits of information.
It isn't a surprise that Zan would ask these questions. Zan has never been mindless in his pursuits, I've always deemed him a thinker, someone that wants answers more than anything. Rockman Online provides potential answers. "Canon" or not, it is admittedly very, very intriguing.
-
Even if we place it outside of (Rockman ZERO) continuinity; as a strange alternate paralel future of the classic and X-series. It still reveals to us information of the past shared with Rockman ZERO. How do you feel about that information assisting us in our understanding of those series?
It all depends on whther or not CoJ decides that it shares continuity with the mainline games. The info is great, yes, but I'm also wary--I'd hate to accept it as canonical to the mainlines only for CoJ to go "lolwhut?"
But as long as we're assuming that RMO will be a mainline game, or in the same continuity--I'm hoping that the Megaman, Protoman, and Roll seen in the trailer are the real deals, and that they're not horribly killed off at any point. Maybe, if the game lets them live, it'll also explain why Mega and X never met (because they're not (http://kobun20.interordi.com/2010/07/05/rockman-x-origins-2/) the same 'bot).
-
It's explaining why Sagesse equipped Zero with the Z-saber, which he was not originally designed with; a backup in case Zero loses his buster functions once again.
This is a perfectly valid explanation, as to Sagesse, there's no guarentee Zero will allow him to do the repair, leaving Zero in the hands of people that do not understand Wily technology.
That Sagesse did construct Zero with a new buster is largely irrelevant to the origin of the Z-saber in relation to Zero losing his original buster functions in the first war.
Alright. that makes sense. The way it was worded made it seem almost like it disregarded that Zero's body was destroyed and sank to the bottom of the sea and had to be rebuilt.
But when you put it like that, I can see what it meant.
It certainly would explain why he was given a saber, something that was not part of his original design specifications seen in Power Fighters.
-
Zan and I discussed the Z-Buster point over AIM, and yeah, that it is factually true but EXTREMELY badly worded so far as implications go is about the only way to make sense of it. Since we know the buster WAS repaired simultaneously with the creation of the Z-Saber, the Z-Saber being added as redundancy is about the only way it works.
I'm surprised at this validating the Z-Buster over Light's X1 capsule, though. Leaving a "what if" scenario is one thing, but claiming that as the valid one makes it harder to sweep the similarity/compatibility issues under the rug. I'm really having a hard time believing at this point that Wily and Light didn't put their heads together one last time during the development of X and Zero.
Same here, and I also want to know why they went with the double dick move of "everybody's dead, Dave"/"All the player characters are retools/recolours of these three schmucks". :/ (Okay, maybe the first can be easily explained)
See, here's the problem with the "only the Navigators lived" explanation: Iris is there. So that says to me that they're evidently cloning navigators as well, and why? Well, we can only guess...
I'm fairly certain that there will be more than three player types, as well. Recent images reveal an alternate ProtoMan design which looks to me like an armor upgrade in the same vein as the previously shown player types.
Even if we place it outside of (Rockman ZERO) continuinity; as a strange alternate paralel future of the classic and X-series. It still reveals to us information of the past shared with Rockman ZERO. How do you feel about that information assisting us in our understanding of those series?
Thus far nothing revealed seems more outlandish than anything Capcom's done, so I'd say that as long as it's not contradictory it should certainly be acceptable. The Wily quote, for example, definitely sounds to me like something Wily would say, even post-X-series.
However, while RMO is offering tons in the way of series backstory, the RMO-specific backstory is still a bit lacking. The deal with Cinnamon getting visions of Neo Arcadia has me intrigued, as that's pretty much the main sign pointing towards the "alternate future" explanation (You could otherwise try to work this into line with the other series, but for them to be so familiar with X/Classic events without hearing of Neo Arcadia?). But if that's the case, then we need to know the nature of the divide. We can't simply assume it was, say, X6 or X7. It could just as easily be any later point in the timeline up until around Elf Wars. Further, in light of ZXA, I'd be reluctant to remove Axl outright from Zero-series continuity.
Also, we really need to know the extent of Wily and Light's involvement. Wily has been off the radar since X7 and Light since XCM. That EITHER of them are playing a part in this is pretty darn significant. Never before has the notion been put forward that their presence would outlast X and Zero's.
-
See, here's the problem with the "only the Navigators lived" explanation: Iris is there. So that says to me that they're evidently cloning navigators as well, and why? Well, we can only guess...
I thought that they might've just repaired her, maybe with the hand wave that her body was recovered from Final Weapon before it went boom. But even if that's the case, it's like she'd be a completely different character anyway, since she wound up essentially frying her brain.
I'm fairly certain that there will be more than three player types, as well. Recent images reveal an alternate ProtoMan design which looks to me like an armor upgrade in the same vein as the previously shown player types.
Or maybe it's just some bastard pretending to be Protoman. >.> (Unless I'm forgetting something about whether or not the bad guys are rebuilt or cloned)
-
Has this been posted yet?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=prmoKwoapn8#![/youtube]
The 2nd trailer of Rockman online.
-
There is also a gameplay video that I couldn't see yet because it works like crap.
Here: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=533048&category=102&subcategory= (i think it wasn't uploaded to YouTube yet)
-
Has this been posted yet?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=prmoKwoapn8#![/youtube]
The 2nd trailer of Rockman online.
This hodgepodge of characters and action scenes shows just why we need a Mega Man X anime. That was quite awesome. So now we know other characters involved. Isoc, Nana, and a few Command Mission characters as well.
now what interests me, is this whole outer space orbital elevator thing. Is that Gaia? if that stuff is going on up there, whats going on in the earth below?
gameplay looks pretty good to me. I generally make it a principle to not play MMORPG's, they just dont appeal to me, but I swear this tempts me. If it EVER sees a western release, you can count on me being there.
-
Happy to see Scarface returning. He was friggin cool.
But the fact that this is a MMO, a Korean&Japan exclusive MMO on top of that, really sucks.
Posted on: November 18, 2010, 13:29:27
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/11/18/first-mega-man-online-video/
-
This is NOT the thread for Rockman Online news posts.
I dont see why people actually still wonder that about X6+ all because the ZC timeline doesnt mention them. it doesnt mention X2-4 either, if I recall, and nobody questions them.
I wasn't so much thinking of their exclusion as I was thinking of the direct linking of Zero's sealing to the Nightmare Incident.
In Rockman Online, Zero actually acknowledged himself as a host, yet we hear no sign of his seal. That would certainly fit such notions. Furthermore, we always had some issues keeping XCM within "XX" years.
As such, the question I must raise... does X7+ Zero acknowledge himself as a host of the virus?
I'm surprised at this validating the Z-Buster over Light's X1 capsule, though. Leaving a "what if" scenario is one thing, but claiming that as the valid one makes it harder to sweep the similarity/compatibility issues under the rug. I'm really having a hard time believing at this point that Wily and Light didn't put their heads together one last time during the development of X and Zero.
That would make me question why Zero believed it even would work.
I would chalk it up to "limitless evolutionary potential", the same technology used for his special weapons. That would make other Repliroids incapable of it, but Zero has seen it at work before, making him sure of its feasibility.
However, while RMO is offering tons in the way of series backstory, the RMO-specific backstory is still a bit lacking. The deal with Cinnamon getting visions of Neo Arcadia has me intrigued, as that's pretty much the main sign pointing towards the "alternate future" explanation (You could otherwise try to work this into line with the other series, but for them to be so familiar with X/Classic events without hearing of Neo Arcadia?).
One thing that interests me here is that they acknowledge Command Mission alongside Inticreates' scenario of host Zero and Sigma Virus' deletion by X to end the Irregular Wars, without inevitably leading into Rockman Zero. Apparently there's no real conflict between Command Mission and Inticreates' story with these basic details.
We can't simply assume it was, say, X6 or X7. It could just as easily be any later point in the timeline up until around Elf Wars.
Traditionally, we've only ever considered timeline splitting because of gameplay input leading to alternate endings. With X7 and beyond giving us little of that, it seems natural to focus on X6. Does it not?
Further, in light of ZXA, I'd be reluctant to remove Axl outright from Zero-series continuity
The beauty of branching timelines compared to a completely different continuinity is that we can reason Axl and the Copy Chip would exist before the story splits ways, justifying ZX Advent even if a story like X7 never happened.
-
I wasn't so much thinking of their exclusion as I was thinking of the direct linking of Zero's sealing to the Nightmare Incident.
In Rockman Online, Zero actually acknowledged himself as a host, yet we hear no sign of his seal. That would certainly fit such notions. Furthermore, we always had some issues keeping XCM within "XX" years.
As such, the question I must raise... does X7+ Zero acknowledge himself as a host of the virus?
A highly questionable part of this, though, is how a split based in X6 would work. The in-game continuity split of whether or not X locates Zero doesn't match the issues we're having between MMZ, XCM, and RMO. Zero seals himself for an expected (may or may not be actual length) 102 years after being located by X, which can only fit with MMZ. And he leaves for an unknown reason if X does not locate him.
Both roads could conceivably lead to MMZ but neither work without it; Zero needs to drop off the radar at some point in the storyline one way or the other. MMZ's backstory is the only account of that happening. It's definitely RMO's responsibility, then, to offer up some explanation. Which I'm sure they intend to do if they're offering Cinnamon's visions of Neo Arcadia as a plot point prior to game release.
Bear in mind, with X6's Zero ending, the reason for displacing it from the rest of the game is two-fold. One is, obviously, to make room for sequels. But the other, which must not be overlooked, is that there is no lead-in concerning it among the game's other events. The ending is extremely ambiguous and is not cross-referenced with any other X6 event, with the inverse also being true in that the ending itself makes no reference to Gate, Sigma, and the like. Further, there is no event specific to X6 which identifies Zero as the virus host; if anything Zero's most significant information at that point in time would have come from X5, thus remaining constant across all possible forks of X6. This is why I maintain, that the ZC timeline referencing the Nightmare as cause of this knowledge suggests that the incident was re-examined at a later point (X salvaging Gate's body certainly leaves a window open, research-wise, if nothing else).
That would make me question why Zero believed it even would work.
I would chalk it up to "limitless evolutionary potential", the same technology used for his special weapons. That would make other Repliroids incapable of it, but Zero has seen it at work before, making him sure of its feasibility.
Between VWS and X's other armor parts, yes, Zero should be well aware of X's ability to assimilate the abilities of others. This also conveniently dodges X and Zero comparing the Z-Buster and spiral-buster since in that fork they'd have never seen the latter. BUT, I have to raise an eyebrow at the Z-Buster enabling charged special weapons. That's not tech that Zero should have, which seemingly further implicates some crossover with Light during development. There's also the fact that X's non-bustered arm responds to the upgrade, not typical of VWS weapons.
One thing that interests me here is that they acknowledge Command Mission alongside Inticreates' scenario of host Zero and Sigma Virus' deletion by X to end the Irregular Wars, without inevitably leading into Rockman Zero. Apparently there's no real conflict between Command Mission and Inticreates' story with these basic details.
If we accept that at face value, then we're looking at the time-split being grounded at the pre-Elf Wars seal. I don't think it can be much later than that unless we see a baddie copying Omega.
...it occurs to me, Omega's existence defies reality and ruptures the border with cyberspace where all the world is data. He could very well be key to such reality warping as a branched universe making contact between the branches. *PURE* speculation on my part, obviously, but it's fun to think about.
Traditionally, we've only ever considered timeline splitting because of gameplay input leading to alternate endings. With X7 and beyond giving us little of that, it seems natural to focus on X6. Does it not?
See above. X6's split does not mesh with the story details we have on the table. In a MMZ-less continuity we have no account of Zero dropping off the radar, which is a necessity in both forks of X6.
There's also the fact that X7 foreshadows MMZ. Unless we're to assume that Zero and Snipe Anteater have some lesser version of Cinnamon's visions, anyway.
The beauty of branching timelines compared to a completely different continuinity is that we can reason Axl and the Copy Chip would exist before the story splits ways, justifying ZX Advent even if a story like X7 never happened.
Touche, such thoughts have occurred to me when brainstorming possible futures off of X5's alternate ending.
That said, while the tech certainly would progress and Axl most likely still existed in some form, Zero's presence was pretty key to putting Axl on the map, in terms of the history books. While Albert pulling the Copy Chip tech is logical in any event, pulling Axl as the design/combat inspiration is a bit more iffy.
-
While Albert pulling the Copy Chip tech is logical in any event, pulling Axl as the design/combat inspiration is a bit more iffy.
Unless the resemblance to Axl is a complete and utter fluke, seeing how little ZX Advent adresses the matter.
Which I'm sure they intend to do if they're offering Cinnamon's visions of Neo Arcadia as a plot point prior to game release.
What surprises me about those visions is that "centuries after X and Zero died", shouldn't that mean RO takes place during the alternate timeline equivalent of Legions, instead of Neo Arcadia? Neo Arcadia should have been blasted to smithereens 1XX years after Zero learned he was the host of the virus. I guess Cinnamon isn't having visions of the same year in this alternate reality.
There's also the fact that X7 foreshadows MMZ.
"Is it memories of the future? Or false images of the past?"
That and Zero's ending. Perfect Memories did mention that something about him being in both the X-series AND the ZERO series would be revealed in X7. But we're still none the wiser...
If we accept that at face value, then we're looking at the time-split being grounded at the pre-Elf Wars seal. I don't think it can be much later than that unless we see a baddie copying Omega.
Well, Neo Arcadia isn't established until after the Elf Wars, so the Elf Wars themselves might have still happened. The last stated Inticreates event in RO is the end of the Irregular Wars. We just don't know how that end is achieved in this timeline. Maybe it all happened the same, maybe it all happened completely differently.
Interestingly enough, if we can confirm from the RO branch that there are little to no deviations from the IntiCreates timeline until the Elf Wars begins or ends, we validate that both Command Mission and Rockman Zero happen in the same timeline, distancing Zero's ending from the rest of X6.
-
Interestingly enough, if we can confirm from the RO branch that there are little to no deviations from the IntiCreates timeline until the Elf Wars begins or ends, we validate that both Command Mission and Rockman Zero happen in the same timeline, distancing Zero's ending from the rest of X6.
I don't think that's entirely true, given that XCM itself is a bit disconnected from the rest of the X-series (and being in the next century which caused a bit of MMZ-related confusion among the game's artists). It's very well conceivable to fork during the X8-to-XCM gap.
On that note, one has to raise an eyebrow at RMO's use of Force Metal and continuing to acknowledge its possible side-effects. This is something which showed tremendous promise and yet, presumably due to its dangers, is all but forgotten in Zero/ZX. The older Energen crystals remain dominant despite their poorer performance, even during times of energy crisis when failure to explore other options leads to mass race-killings.
-
I don't think that's entirely true, given that XCM itself is a bit disconnected from the rest of the X-series (and being in the next century which caused a bit of MMZ-related confusion among the game's artists). It's very well conceivable to fork during the X8-to-XCM gap.
What I meant is, that if RO acknowledges Zero's sealing, it shows us there is no contradiction between Zero being sealed and X7/8 happening. Making the timeline of X6>X7>X8>X6 Zero ending>Rockman Zero an entirely possible one. And if we assume that, then X6>X7>X8>XCM>X6 Zero ending>Rockman Zero naturally follows as well, unless XCM occurs during Zero's sleep being interrupted. But first, we'd have to see if they indeed will acknowledge Zero's seal, cause thusfar they haven't.
On that note, one has to raise an eyebrow at RMO's use of Force Metal and continuing to acknowledge its possible side-effects. This is something which showed tremendous promise and yet, presumably due to its dangers, is all but forgotten in Zero/ZX. The older Energen crystals remain dominant despite their poorer performance, even during times of energy crisis when failure to explore other options leads to mass race-killings.
Well, this and XCM always having been a "gaiden", does lend credit to a split before XCM. But as is we can't really disconnect XCM from X7 and X8. But we can disconnect X7 and X8 from X6's Zero Ending.
See above. X6's split does not mesh with the story details we have on the table. In a MMZ-less continuity we have no account of Zero dropping off the radar, which is a necessity in both forks of X6.
In RO's premise, X and Zero are both dead. Without Neo Arcadia, we can't account for X's death either, yet it has happened. Certainly this relates to the way the Irregular Wars went differently. Likewise, we also inevitably have to drop Axl somewhere down the road. So I wouldn't say Zero's sealing is much of a necessity here.
I do however agree that based on X7 and RO, we are given no reason as to why Zero would not seal himself away, despite knowing he's a host... If Zero indeed didn't seal himself prior to RO, what reason would he have?
Amusingly enough, X7 speaks of Axl changing destiny with his appearance, got to wonder how that relates.
Posted on: November 20, 2010, 03:05:42 PM
You know, I just remembered, didn't we see both Right and Wily in the first trailer, with some some sort of massive energy field going across the city? Perhaps that in itself is our reason for a timeline split; time travel from 20XX into this far flung future world? Depending on how that works out, it can either validate or invalidate X7+ toward Rockman Zero.
-
No telling what a shiny light over half the planet means, but yeah, I'm wondering what impact Light and Wily are going to have on this myself. They were shown, they're pretty heavily referenced, they seem to be a big deal in terms of the game's story.
...for that matter, this could go a ways as to explaining the Classic characters' exclusion from player selection. IF there are some time travel shenanigans going on, then maybe Rock, ProtoMan, and Bass are not DNA clones at all.
We've got some tough questions to answer either way. If they're not clones, then why are Rock and ProtoMan duking it out? If they are, then what was the point of cloning Roll?
Well, this and XCM always having been a "gaiden", does lend credit to a split before XCM. But as is we can't really disconnect XCM from X7 and X8. But we can disconnect X7 and X8 from X6's Zero Ending.
XCM *IS* disconnected from X8, though. While there is a thematic Copy Chip/Evolution of Reploids similarity, there is no direct connection between Red Alert/Lumine/Sigma and XCM. Further, Axl's own statements says that our "big three" have been apart for some time (also the Hunter Class changes), and XCM doesn't account for the usual supporting cast, leaving that aspect of the story wide open as well. There's also a considerable amount of setup time necessary for a meteor which was never identified prior to 2202 to crash, and for R&D after the point to make the progress that it had, Giga City's creation and such. A great deal of XCM's backstory is contained within 22XX, not merely the game's own events, thus distancing it from the main series that much more.
In RO's premise, X and Zero are both dead. Without Neo Arcadia, we can't account for X's death either, yet it has happened. Certainly this relates to the way the Irregular Wars went differently. Likewise, we also inevitably have to drop Axl somewhere down the road. So I wouldn't say Zero's sealing is much of a necessity here.
It's a matter of closure. It's one thing to take a successful Hunter from a previous series and drop him "somewhere", simply because we're in a different era. It's quite another to take a Hunter who was already stated to have removed himself from the story, and to never answer why.
For that matter, disappearance and death are not the same thing. Zero is very much alive in the alternate X6 ending, and the main difference between that and the main ending is that he has "something" to take care of that is pulling him away from his duties as a Hunter. This might seem a valid MMZ lead-in if the main ending hadn't shown us Zero's seal. RMO CANNOT continue off of that without some further explanation, because it would have to establish how the X6 split is relevant to its respective events as opposed to MMZ's.
-
We've got some tough questions to answer either way. If they're not clones, then why are Rock and ProtoMan duking it out? If they are, then what was the point of cloning Roll?
Roll was cloned too? Did I miss a news post or something here?
XCM *IS* disconnected from X8, though. While there is a thematic Copy Chip/Evolution of Reploids similarity, there is no direct connection between Red Alert/Lumine/Sigma and XCM. Further, Axl's own statements says that our "big three" have been apart for some time (also the Hunter Class changes), and XCM doesn't account for the usual supporting cast, leaving that aspect of the story wide open as well. There's also a considerable amount of setup time necessary for a meteor which was never identified prior to 2202 to crash, and for R&D after the point to make the progress that it had, Giga City's creation and such. A great deal of XCM's backstory is contained within 22XX, not merely the game's own events, thus distancing it from the main series that much more.
What I meant is that X7 to XCM are on itself a single story arc disconnected from X6. X6's story arc is instead continued in Rockman Zero. Likewise, X7 to XCM have no alternate endings; X6 was the last title to have them. Ofcourse, outside of X5, none of the previous alternate endings ever lead to the next game not happening.
Zero is very much alive in the alternate X6 ending, and the main difference between that and the main ending is that he has "something" to take care of that is pulling him away from his duties as a Hunter.
It could be taken to mean that he would indeed seal himself away, regardless if you found him or not. Alternatively, the Zero Nightmare is still on the loose, leading to a different future. With all that scene could imply, we really need more information about it...
-
Roll was cloned too? Did I miss a news post or something here?
Roll was in the first anime trailer, distressed as she was separated from Rock in a crowd. So, she is seemingly present in some capacity. No further specifics are known.
What I meant is that X7 to XCM are on itself a single story arc disconnected from X6. X6's story arc is instead continued in Rockman Zero. Likewise, X7 to XCM have no alternate endings; X6 was the last title to have them. Ofcourse, outside of X5, none of the previous alternate endings ever lead to the next game not happening.
Fair enough, I'm just saying that while X7 leads directly to X8, X8 does not directly lead to XCM. X8 was released after XCM and leaves a lot of questions that still need to be answered before XCM can kick off.
I consider XCM about as much of the "Copy Chip" story arc as ZXA is: Yes there are recurring themes but they're pretty well distanced from each other. The Copy Chip is mainly emphasized in XCM simply to justify Axl's presence; it's not the central focus that it was in X8.
It could be taken to mean that he would indeed seal himself away, regardless if you found him or not.
That's what I'm leaning towards. In such a case, both roads end at MMZ, so we're looking at more of a much larger version of the X2/X3 alternate scenarios. Different means, same end. Although granted, one can't help but be curious as to how X handling the remainder of the wars on his own goes, particularly during X7.
While we can certainly see how X7-XCM are relevant to RMO, I'm just not seeing how the X6 split, in and of itself, is. Zero's ending does not allow writing X7-XCM out of MMZ's continuity unless we write it, ZXA, and X7's premonitions off as "just one of those things" in the same category as the Guardians witnessing Ragnarok. That's a bit too much for me to simply "excuse" under some newly written alternate explanations; it makes Inticreates' storytelling look a lot more organized by comparison.
Whatever timeline split is relevant to RMO, I expect to be wholly covered in RMO's backstory. Trying to make X6 it may seem to make sense in light of the pulled ZC website, but reconciling that with the whole of the X-series gets convoluted real fast.
Alternatively, the Zero Nightmare is still on the loose, leading to a different future. With all that scene could imply, we really need more information about it...
Nightmare Zero may or may not have been toasted once the Nightmare Virus was destroyed, so that's pretty open (Capcom has always done a lousy job of explaining the defeat of viral enemies.). Yeah, we could always use more info...
-
Roll was in the first anime trailer, distressed as she was separated from Rock in a crowd. So, she is seemingly present in some capacity. No further specifics are known.
Ah, I see. But that's kind of the same question as with the Navigators. Likewise, the trailers don't really acknowledge the clones. Perhaps all the originals were sent into this future world as well?
Zero's ending does not allow writing X7-XCM out of MMZ's continuity unless we write it, ZXA, and X7's premonitions off as "just one of those things" in the same category as the Guardians witnessing Ragnarok. That's a bit too much for me to simply "excuse" under some newly written alternate explanations; it makes Inticreates' storytelling look a lot more organized by comparison.
Could you elaborate what you mean here? I'm not sure I quite understand.
-
So now everybody loves branching timelines, eh? Too bad they don't work very well in RO's case.
Maintaining that there is a language barrier, but even so, the details of the past and present described for Rockman Online are simply bits and blends of everything else. Examining the details exposes several inconsistencies. Zero's Z-Saber is certainly poorly worded... or more likely, poorly thought out as an explanation to what we actually see in the X series. But it pales in comparison to the inconsistencies within X's workup.
Not only do they maintain that the X Buster uses plasma power (where it should be solar everywhere outside of the Plasma Charge Shot), but they also comment implying that the variable weapon system is nigh incomprehensible and unique, when not only Axl, but Duo in Power Fighters as well had demonstrated this same power (and ergo, his "types" should still have it).
One could say that since their understanding of history is from a standpoint from a hundred or more years after the fact, hereby confusing or blending some details of their own past. In that case there is leeway, but at the same time nothing of their version of history can be taken at face value for application with the other series anyway. And moreover, that should not be the case where technology is reproduced, as in cloning X's DNA shouldn't change his buster standard from solar to plasma. Plasma in this case is something even minor enemies like that camo-met are said to use, and it's probably the influence of the Ruby Spears cartoon and so on unto their regional expectations of terminology (everything is a "plasma shooter"). Like the intermingling of "Rockman," "Reploid" and "Humaroid" they are making a game for the Korean region based on Korean understanding and expectations, as well as their own imaginative direction. Their details align and conform for that purpose-applying the game characters and details they want to use. I believe they are not interested in being Japan-canon or any other region.
My conclusion? Rockman Online exists as its own distinct canon. It clearly takes things from the Rockman, X, and Zero series, but it does not work in reverse-nothing we learn from here applies to them. What we know of RO's past is only what we have been shown or told, and nothing else. If they intend a time-space cross-over or dilapidation, they will explain it that way through the course of their story. I would not have you stop speculating on where or why, but the fact is it's pretty much up to them and there will probably be no logical way to deduce what they will likely choose on their own whims. Nor will we be able to gather any but the broadest of details on timeline occurrence or character backstory from this--details we by and large already knew, or had a sense of but at the same time cannot confirm or deny based on RO's stance.
As such, the question I must raise... does X7+ Zero acknowledge himself as a host of the virus?
This probably refers to Zero's rather irritatingly ambiguous dialogue with Layer in X8. People tend to see in that what they want.
One thing that interests me here is that they acknowledge Command Mission alongside Inticreates' scenario of host Zero and Sigma Virus' deletion by X to end the Irregular Wars, without inevitably leading into Rockman Zero
Zero as the initial host of the virus was the X series' idea. Inti just complicated it by saying Zero was still actively spreading the virus the whole time-something that Rockman Online has yet to acknowledge. Or X7-onward for that matter. For the rest, if the good guys don't win, humans are in trouble. Subduing the Sigma virus in some way is the only way to have that peaceful future world. Not permanently, apparently, since the threat has now re-emerged. X (and probably his friends as well) conquering and vanquishing that evil is an easy way to transition into the story they want to tell. It's just a loose blueprint to a happy ending for the X series.
What surprises me about those visions is that "centuries after X and Zero died", shouldn't that mean RO takes place during the alternate timeline equivalent of Legions, instead of Neo Arcadia? Neo Arcadia should have been blasted to smithereens 1XX years after Zero learned he was the host of the virus. I guess Cinnamon isn't having visions of the same year in this alternate reality.
The translations I read used "ages." What is an age? 30 years? 50 years? A hundred? A thousand? They probably don't want to clarify.
Whatever the intend to do with Neo Arcadia will be interesting and probably self-contained with its eventual explanation (and still won't be canon to Rockman Zero).
Amusingly enough, X7 speaks of Axl changing destiny with his appearance, got to wonder how that relates.
On the one hand, probably nothing, since that was a fanciful translation that does not appear in the Japanese version. On the other hand, it'd be impossible to tell whether RO's creators are working from English-Korean translated source or Japanese-Korean translated source or both. So to say it had no bearing on their thought processes would be premature.
You know, I just remembered, didn't we see both Right and Wily in the first trailer
Nevermind that, they were on the main rosters for the good group and the evil group respectively since the initial introduction. How ever their past selves, robotic selves or cloned selves will function in this game is a central puzzle piece that is still missing in all of this.
On that note, one has to raise an eyebrow at RMO's use of Force Metal and continuing to acknowledge its possible side-effects. This is something which showed tremendous promise and yet, presumably due to its dangers, is all but forgotten in Zero/ZX. The older Energen crystals remain dominant despite their poorer performance, even during times of energy crisis when failure to explore other options leads to mass race-killings.
Thank you. This is more interesting than Zan's regurgitations of things I already said in our last several branching timeline/Model A discussions, and I think it could well be either that:
1. Cause and effect A - Force Metal use for reploids is forbidden due to the dangerous nature proven in CM.
2. Cause and effect B - Force Metal has already been used up due to its finite nature of coming from but one singular asteroid.
3. Branching effect - The meteoroid fell but in their timeline nobody ever studied it because they were too busy having Elf Wars.
4. Complete break - Force Metal does not exist in their timeline at all.
-
Thank you. This is more interesting than Zan's regurgitations of things I already said
How come I'm sensing hostility from one such as you, who hasn't been around for a while? You've never before entered a discussion in such a manner.
So now everybody loves branching timelines, eh? Too bad they don't work very well in RO's case.
I don't think there's any like or dislike involved. Only necessity. With ZC, we had no necessity for a split based at X6. Whereas now, Cinnamon has given us the necessity of a branch somewhere for us to lead into RO as a parallel to Neo Arcadia. But as Hypershell has pointed out, we don't have a justification for that split being X6, not even now. The timeframe of the split is as of yet so unconfirmed that it could even acknowledge XCM in the same timeline as Rockman Zero, instead of the much anticipated opposite.
If this somehow places both Zero's sealing and XCM as part of its past, don't you think that would be interesting?
Not only do they maintain that the X Buster uses plasma power (where it should be solar everywhere outside of the Plasma Charge Shot),
Technically, they're pretty much the same thing. Feel free the elaborate on the distinction.
but they also comment implying that the variable weapon system is nigh incomprehensible and unique
Not so incomprehensible now that we're copying X whole...
But the point remains that X's variable weapons system is unique among the clone hunters. It started out unique in the classic and X series, and in fact, it should have stayed unique.
, when not only Axl, but Duo in Power Fighters as well had demonstrated this same power (and ergo, his "types" should still have it)
It is not uncommon for plot abilities to be lost and gained even with DNA cloning involved. We all remember Zero's buster, do we not?
Like the intermingling of "Rockman," "Reploid" and "Humaroid" they are making a game for the Korean region based on Korean understanding and expectations, as well as their own imaginative direction. Their details align and conform for that purpose-applying the game characters and details they want to use. I believe they are not interested in being Japan-canon or any other region.
It goes without saying that their understanding and imaginative direction are alwaysa factor. Region has preciously little to do with it, and these being different developers has everything to do with it. Your examples are no different from the contradictions that exist within the X-series in itself. To emphasize that I ask: what was Zero's power source again?
But let's amuse the notion of "region" for a second; what if Capcom of Japan brings the title over?
something that Rockman Online has yet to acknowledge.
The X-series itself acknowledges it in a way; RockmanX6. It was what led to Gate's madness.
On the one hand, probably nothing, since that was a fanciful translation that does not appear in the Japanese version.
Nice to know.
-
I agree that the plasma/solar distinction is a bit of splitting hairs (though I'm surprised to see Zan beat me to that in light of our other discussions on localization terms). "Solar" is commonly associated with light energy, but it technically refers to the sun, which is a big ball of plasma in a constant state of nuclear fusion. Consider if you will that X is equipped with a "Micro-fusion Fuel Tank", and I would not be willing to bet much on X or his buster being powered simply by daylight.
Localized terms in Korea have always been a bit of a mish-mash; as I recall both "MegaMan" and "Rockman" brands have made it over there. So, that much is to be expected. I would HOPE that their working with CoJ on this one would net them a bit more credibility, but since they are approaching this game as quite possibly Korean-exclusive that may or may not make it to Japan, RMO simply being its own AU is pretty likely. It's the most clean-cut way of dealing with it, even more so from Capcom's standpoint than from ours.
The gameplay mold of MegaMan more or less mandates that any playable character have some equivalant of VWS. To that end, Duo in Power Fighters is the hardest to excuse. ProtoMan and Bass can be swept under the rug by association of their design with Rock's (Wily playing copy-cat). Axl has the benefit of Hunter support, which works to the benefit of all RMO players. It is a known fact that DNA data is feasible for use as general power-ups ever since Xtreme2, further reinforced by X5 and X7 (the latter clarifying that such data is transferable without much hassle, but the ability to utilize it is fairly specialized). The "mysteriousness" of X's VWS most likely refers to his ability to utilize such data independently. Axl, if put in that same boat, would theoretically be stuck with only his Copy Chip abilities (read: ZXA).
Could you elaborate what you mean here? I'm not sure I quite understand.
Zero "disappearing" in either X6 fork leads only to MMZ. RMO requires Zero is "dead", not the same thing, therefore his "disappearance" in an X6 fork conceivably not leading to MMZ is unexplained.
The rest is the varying events which currently tie the entirety of MMX main series to MMZ. Zero's X6 ending itself being a part of the "main" timeline, Snipe Anteater, Zero's dreams, and our loose connections to Axl. I'm not willing to completely rewrite the background behind ALL of these things, based on what RMO "might" be doing.
I think it could well be either that:
1. Cause and effect A - Force Metal use for reploids is forbidden due to the dangerous nature proven in CM.
2. Cause and effect B - Force Metal has already been used up due to its finite nature of coming from but one singular asteroid.
3. Branching effect - The meteoroid fell but in their timeline nobody ever studied it because they were too busy having Elf Wars.
4. Complete break - Force Metal does not exist in their timeline at all.
#2 falls in line with Cinnamon, the "Force Metal Generator", being targeted by the Rebellion even within XCM; surely if any Force Metal research were to continue her role would be that much more important as time went on.
What was Zero's power source again?
Some unspecified derivative of Bassnium/Fortenium research.
But let's amuse the notion of "region" for a second; what if Capcom of Japan brings the title over?
You know, it occurs to me more and more lately that not every localized term is necessarily pulled out of its respective regional office's ass. Recall, if you will, with Legends 3, that it was Capcom Japan which corrected jgonzo on Aero's name being Sephira outside of Japan. Unless specifically told, we really have no way of knowing when and to what extent CoJ is involved with such things.
The X-series itself acknowledges it in a way; RockmanX6. It was what led to Gate's madness.
In all fairness, X6's virally contagious "piece of Zero" follows a known and massive viral assault on Zero in X5. That doesn't necessarily point to Zero spreading the virus at all times.
-
So after reading marshmallow man's post, it seems like all those "answers" that RO came up with are now utterly pointless because it can't really share continuity with the mainlines. AAAAAAAARGH.
Not that I wasn't doubting that after the whole "timeline split" came up; I don't think Capcom would allow for those in the MM series (dunno about other franchises; I think Street Fighter has at least one).
Region has preciously little to do with it,
I hope this reply doesn't start a bitchfight, but...if you had to translate something, didn't have all the info on it, but HAD to have something there (because it's not the Internet and you can't say "I'm not entirely sure what happened there"), I'm sure there would be SOME difference...
-
I believe what Zan is getting at is that the game is not being produced outside of Capcom of Japan's influence. They are in on the game's development, they just don't know if they want to release it for sale in Japan.
A lot of fans, and I'm sure myself included at times, get "swept up" in the notion of region-specific projects being produced in isolation from CoJ, the author of the core scenarios from which all derivatives come from.
We really should know better, especially after X Collection...
(EDITS: For clarification, there ARE plenty of projects produced without CoJ's full review of continuity and whatnot, I'm just saying that we can't assume that all of them are.)
-
Ah.
We really should know better, especially after X Collection...
Heck, even RS-MM, I think. At least, it's not like CoJ didn't notice it. Though--I dunno, is it safe to say that Novas Adventuras de Megaman was totally isolated from CoJ?
-
How come I'm sensing hostility from one such as you, who hasn't been around for a while? You've never before entered a discussion in such a manner.
What? I was just happy to see something come up that wasn't old hash. We've talked RPM, we've talked Model A. But I don't recall too much focus on Command Mission, aside from its ill-fitting placement on the ZC timeline. It's actually what persuaded me to bother to post at all. That and ample free time this holiday weekend.
I don't think there's any like or dislike involved.
It's actually all that's involved at the moment.
If this somehow places both Zero's sealing and XCM as part of its past, don't you think that would be interesting?
Naturally I'm interested: they had me at "Rockman." That doesn't change however that RO cannot fit into ZC's timeline at all from what we have seen so far, unless their very actions rewrites time itself.
Technically, they're pretty much the same thing. Feel free the elaborate on the distinction.
Weaponized plasma in this Rockman games has an electrical element to it that is often visually distinct. In X4-X6 Ultimate Armor that amounts to the added hits in the form of mini plasma balls that stay after the first. In Zero and ZX, it's more directly applied to their tri-elemental system (see Model H/HX in particular). Solar bullets as a weapon are distinctly separate from this.
But the point remains that X's variable weapons system is unique among the clone hunters. It started out unique in the classic and X series, and in fact, it should have stayed unique.
Perhaps it should have, but it didn't.
Region has preciously little to do with it, and these being different developers has everything to do with it. Your examples are no different from the contradictions that exist within the X-series in itself. To emphasize that I ask: what was Zero's power source again?
Region and the regional understanding of their audience has everything to do with game development, particularly in this case.
Do you mean to imply with Zero's power source that because contradictions exist within Japan itself, that all contradictions for any region should be ignored? In that case, this entire conversation has just lost meaning. However, I'll just stick to examining the reasons for these contradictions and examining... in plasma's case, and certainly for mixing terms and new ones like humaroids, the region is the red-handed culprit. As far as timeline connection, that is probably the creative vision. Wasn't there an interview with a Capcom director that explained that Pmang brought the idea to them?
But let's amuse the notion of "region" for a second; what if Capcom of Japan brings the title over?
Either they'll adapt all terms and contradictions properly as they did when adapting Cain's Journal, or they will leave it and allow that it does its own thing. I'd wager the latter.
-
Weaponized plasma in this Rockman games has an electrical element to it that is often visually distinct. In X4-X6 Ultimate Armor that amounts to the added hits in the form of mini plasma balls that stay after the first. In Zero and ZX, it's more directly applied to their tri-elemental system (see Model H/HX in particular). Solar bullets as a weapon are distinctly separate from this.
You haven't by chance noticed that in both Classic and Zero, weaponized solar energy is depicted as fire-element?
Sorry, Marshmallow, but you're describing a pretty loose trend, which is by no means concrete evidence. Even the X4 example is debatable; if you're going to cite arcing lines as evidence of electrical attack element, there's any number of X's charged shots besides Plasma Charge that I can introduce you to, especially from the Super NES titles. Several of them also spark, which the Plasma Charge does not.
-
You haven't by chance noticed that in both Classic and Zero, weaponized solar energy is depicted as fire-element?
More often than not: and that is the point. That which is labeled plasma in Japanese is accompanied by Elec element; solar is not (ever). Try to find one where it isn't.
-
You already named one for me unless you iron out the selective reasoning behind your previous post. There's nothing "electric" about the Plasma Charge except its appearance (residual damage is not electric-specific; fire does that in Zero). Further, the main body of the charge attack has absolutely no electrical appearance to it, yet logic dictates that it must "carry" the charge that it leaves behind, which SEVERELY damages your notion that we can rule out such associations solely by appearance.
Also by such logic: gauging electrical association solely by appearance, these are all electric, and thus viable "plasma" candidates:
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5256/shots.png)
Footnote: The standard charged shot of PS1 games DOES have sparks, but lacks arcing lines, so I omitted it.
But assuming for the sake of argument you hadn't answered your own challenge before offering it, here's another, also from X4:
http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Cannon
Enemy named in Servbot 20's collected sourcebook info.
More often than not: and that is the point. That which is labeled plasma in Japanese is accompanied by Elec element; solar is not (ever).
When did I remotely imply that solar was accompanied by electric?
You rather neatly swept under the rug my bringing up what element solar IS accompanied by. So by what logic do we assume that buster shots, a non-elemental attack for the purpose of gameplay, are closer to fire than to electric?
-
I'm not talking visuals. I'm talking literal descriptions of the weapon in sourcebooks. Plasma Charge Shot is electronically charged. The Rock Buster and X Buster are both canonically solar powered. Visuals would never be enough.
When did I remotely imply that solar was accompanied by electric?
I would have said when you stated that the distinction of solar and plasma was splitting hairs. But I think you simply misunderstood me in thinking that I was judging by visuals and interpretations, when I was actually talking facts.
http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Cannon
An electron-charged laser. Still elec.
So by what logic do we assume that buster shots, a non-elemental attack for the purpose of gameplay, are closer to fire than to electric?
By the logic of that is what we are both shown and told. I'm not making the call; they are. Plasma is elec and distinct from solar, which they feel is closer to heat element with robots like Pharaoh Man and Solar Man. Ask Capcom why.
-
I'm not talking visuals. I'm talking literal descriptions of the weapon in sourcebooks. Plasma Charge Shot is electronically charged.
If you have an official description, then quote it. Don't simply offer a paraphrase of gameplay effects, that doesn't prove your point.
I'd best let that go, however, because we're on a tangent. Since you specified that you're not talking about "interpretations" such as attack elements (your citing Model H threw me off, my apologies), then when you issued that challenge you in fact got the argument backwards: "Plasma" by definition, involves electrical charge. It's the state of matter at which electrons are no longer bound to their atoms. The fact that Capcom associates plasma with electrons does not produce some MegaMan-specific brand of logic and should by no means be treated as such.
Thus, we need to back up a bit. The task at hand is not to prove why plasma is associated with electrons, but rather, why the buster must not be. Why is the buster classified exclusively as a heat ray that makes no use of electricity? The term "solar" in and of itself does not answer that, and it is the only answer you have thus far presented. The connection between "solar" and "plasma" is a simple matter of physics and etymology, as I already addressed. We can tie this to X through his canonically stated use of fusion. While "solar" may for obvious reasons be associated with heat, it is not exclusive to such, nor is that which is associated with heat by any means automatically disassociated with electricity.
Along that same vein:An electron-charged laser. Still elec.
What non-electron-charged lasers do we see, and how do you draw that distinction?
-
(though I'm surprised to see Zan beat me to that in light of our other discussions on localization terms).
In this case, we were pretty much going with the same train of thought; the sun is a large ball of plasma. Furthermore, we mustn't forget this is translated from Korean. Do we even know how the Koreans originally "localized" the phrase "solar" in contrast with "plasma"?
Some unspecified derivative of Bassnium/Fortenium research.
Zero's power source according to one source was "solar energy like X", in others "atomic". But yes, the energy that exceeds Fortenium also deserves a mention. Although I think the strongest energy on Earth more than likely refers more to Zero's use of the virus as a powersource, we're certainly getting conflicting implications within the X-series in itself; RO's offenses are thusfar no greater than that.
You know, it occurs to me more and more lately that not every localized term is necessarily pulled out of its respective regional office's ass. Recall, if you will, with Legends 3, that it was Capcom Japan which corrected jgonzo on Aero's name being Sephira outside of Japan. Unless specifically told, we really have no way of knowing when and to what extent CoJ is involved with such things.
I'm still raising an eyebrow as to why that particular name change was even needed. I know Capcom has a knack for changing terms that are for all intends and purposes already written in the target language, but damn, this was blatantly overdoing it.
In all fairness, X6's virally contagious "piece of Zero" follows a known and massive viral assault on Zero in X5.
And a virus dies with its host, the same game said. So, there's definitely something odd about Zero. Add to that the original meaning behind his ending, as well as Gate somehow being afflicted by the Sigma Virus, to bring Sigma back, instead of the Zero Virus.
What? I was just happy to see something come up that wasn't old hash. We've talked RPM, we've talked Model A. But I don't recall too much focus on Command Mission, aside from its ill-fitting placement on the ZC timeline. It's actually what persuaded me to bother to post at all. That and ample free time this holiday weekend.
Let's just say among other word choice, that "regurgitations" wasn't the best one. I would have figured you'd be more amused with us actually reconsidering your own premise.
Perhaps it should have, but it didn't.
When we consider that Axl's display of VWS is in fact based on different weapons instead of a single weapon somehow changing its output, how is VWS by plot instead of gameplay, no longer unique?
That doesn't change however that RO cannot fit into ZC's timeline at all from what we have seen so far, unless their very actions rewrites time itself.
If the rewriting of time is limited to just the examples you gave (plasma/solar and VWS), I'd say that's pretty minor. Do you have any better examples of contradicting the known timeline?
new ones like humaroids
Why couldn't it just come with the setting of this far future world? Like Rockman X coined "Repliroid" and "Mechaniroid", like Rockman Zero coined "Mythos Repliroids" and "Bioroids".
By the logic of that is what we are both shown and told. I'm not making the call; they are. Plasma is elec and distinct from solar, which they feel is closer to heat element with robots like Pharaoh Man and Solar Man. Ask Capcom why.
Ergo, we're dealing with the same neutral energy shots fired from the same ranged weapon, but given an ever so slight difference in elemental inclination of "fire" versus "elec", that hardly even registers on enemies. By what logic can the X-buster not fire plasma when even Zero's bustershot can fire attacks of all elements by the mere insertion of a chip?
-
I'm still raising an eyebrow as to why that particular name change was even needed. I know Capcom has a knack for changing terms that are for all intends and purposes already written in the target language, but damn, this was blatantly overdoing it.
At first, perhaps. But given time, I liked it. I thought that "Aero" as a character name, because her hair is airy, sounded pretty cheesy.
And a virus dies with its host, the same game said. So, there's definitely something odd about Zero.
We're not looking at scrap metal, though; this piece of Zero was intact enough to retain his DNA data. Could a piece of a Reploid be used as a viral culture, even if only temporarily? Surely the virus would have died eventually, but that doesn't mean that the host's death causes it to die instantaneously. The concentration of the viral assault is also worth mentioning, since we know that the Sigma Virus better tolerates the unhosted substance world in high concentrations.
Why couldn't it just come with the setting of this far future world? Like Rockman X coined "Repliroid" and "Mechaniroid", like Rockman Zero coined "Mythos Repliroids" and "Bioroids".
I somehow missed that over the course of this discussion, but that makes sense to me. In-universe terminology can and has changed over the ages. Certainly this is no more offensive than the general ambiguity of "Sigma Virus" when used in retrospective text.
-
XCM disconnected? Maybe, though X8 did try and connect it a little by introducing the New Gens and then at the end, that little note that copy chip production restarted some time in the future, which is what CM has, with Redips and many of his soldiers being New Gens.
Also the Orbital elevator Babel, with X8 showing the first orbital Elevator
-
Orbital Elevators originated in Z1, they just weren't highlighted in the same manner that they were in X8 and XCM.
Zan has alleged that Wily built the first orbital elevator (MM10), although given the gravity shenanigans of that stage, that may not be an elevator at all but just one hell of a free-fall into the sky.
XCM is highly debatable as Copy Chip production restarting; the technology in that game is considered exceptionally hard to find. This is evident in Axl's surprise at Redips having the ability, and Marino being unable to find one to potentially steal outside of Axl's.
-
If you have an official description, then quote it. Don't simply offer a paraphrase of gameplay effects, that doesn't prove your point.
I forgot how most of my time spent with you guys is simply catching you up to speed to effect a reasonable conversation. Thanks for reminding me why I don't drop by more often.
One example of many:
Plasma Shot:
This special charge shot emits a giant plasma blast that generates a ball of electricity on impact that shocks enemies for additional damage.
And I believe you already have access to other people's translated resources (http://kobun20.interordi.com/2010/07/19/dr-im-always-right-breaks-it-down/) explaining how a normal buster and charge shot (http://kobun20.interordi.com/2010/09/20/ask-me-3-the-final-lesson/) works available to you to have come to an understanding of how Rock and X's normal busters are always described as solar bullets made from wavelengths of energy from the sun that are condensed, and not being themselves mini-suns or anything of the sort.
It seems like you already figured out why plasma would be attached to elec elements. An equally quick trip to solar energy on Wikipedia teaches that solar energy deals with utilizing light and heat wavelengths from the sun. Therefore we should not be surprised to find that solar energy be classified so often as heat element or even as neutral light element in these games. But the actual science involved is only a half-truth, because how many of these technologies like rock busters actually exist and can be demonstrated in a real lab? It's fiction we're dealing with, and the Japanese masters of these fictional worlds consistently define the device they've invented as working based on solar energy in ways such as the above, and alike with plasma to describe a different set of characteristics as also described. The associated elements are the ones they have chosen. I have many sourcebooks that hold to this convention and quite literally none that oppose this. The Rockbuster is always described as solar energy, and the term plasma only occurs where there is electrical elements at work, making the only overlaps the unique charge shots from special armors such as the one above. Solar energy and plasma energy are distinct because Capcom decided it should be. The sci-fi makes sense, the patten they've chosen is evident even to yourselves and yet you question it anyway, if and I don't know how else to explain it. Quite frankly, it's been gone over enough.
Where this applies to RO, there is the following:
태양 에너지 - This would be "Solar Energy" and a 1:1 translation from the Japanese of what the buster should be running on.
플라스마 - This is "Plasma". If you read the site and thought to reverse-engineer what you had read to apply to the Japanese version, you would arrive at a faulty conclusion contradicting what they had actually set forth.
By what logic can the X-buster not fire plasma when even Zero's bustershot can fire attacks of all elements by the mere insertion of a chip?
The X-Buster can emit things ranging from energy weapons to chemicals to solid constructions with mechanical working parts. But these are all with the use of special weapons or upgrades. And generally in those instances, the only time these changes are shown are within charged shots.
When we consider that Axl's display of VWS is in fact based on different weapons instead of a single weapon somehow changing its output, how is VWS by plot instead of gameplay, no longer unique?
In X7 this involved many using the same weapon, and all of which using the same basic form as X. But more importantly, the X Compendium and X7 books explain that AXL has the same special weapon ability X does. And by the second trailer, he's present in RO even if not a playable character. And then there's Duo. And Rockman, whom maybe they don't have information about... but I think we will find that they do. VWS is all over the place. I would be more impressed by their attention to fine "details" if they didn't overlook them so regularly.
Another example I was considering while on the subject. The very idea of Duo punching people out is itself but a nod to Ariga (which they got long before we did). Fun and silly, but how practical is it? Would Duo as a warrior for justice seriously start punching friends and strangers for white lies? There is so clearly a pop culture element involved in these biographies.
Why couldn't it just come with the setting of this far future world? Like Rockman X coined "Repliroid" and "Mechaniroid", like Rockman Zero coined "Mythos Repliroids" and "Bioroids".
I somehow missed that over the course of this discussion, but that makes sense to me. In-universe terminology can and has changed over the ages. Certainly this is no more offensive than the general ambiguity of "Sigma Virus" when used in retrospective text.
Sigma Virus is confusing, but it is also explained already and thoroughly in sourcebooks that the reason behind the name came from Doppler, and was named for Sigma. If RO explains in their next blog post how here in the future everyone in this "Rockman" universe calls "repliroids" just "reploids" now and that they in more recent times coined the term humaroid to apply specifically to ________ (since we don't actually have a clear cut definition of what a humaroid refers to at this time) I will be sure to drop by and give you guys a thumbs up.
If the rewriting of time is limited to just the examples you gave (plasma/solar and VWS), I'd say that's pretty minor. Do you have any better examples of contradicting the known timeline?
You already pointed them out-ages of peace after the X series including Command Mission and with no public record of Neo Arcadia outside the cryptic visions of Cinnamon copies. More specifically for Command Mission, there are 1XX years from Zero's initial building and sealing to the start of the Zero series. These include a first sealing of unknown time, a second one following the Nightmare Incident occurring roughly some 50 years at least, and a third lasting a 100 years from the Elf Wars. With over 150 years accounted for with sealings coupled with Zero being a robot from an earlier era that is the same as X's at the very beginning of the series, most of all of this time is spent sleeping and perhaps only a decade or two at most of actual X series can occur in the time that is left. For Command Mission to fit in before Zero's second seal he must have been sealed initially after 2150. Placing it during or after the Elf Wars is similarly disjointing with little intermingled plot elements to fit its era. And we've already talked about all this last time. Oh well.
Let's just say among other word choice, that "regurgitations" wasn't the best one. I would have figured you'd be more amused with us actually reconsidering your own premise.
I just feel like it's the same old thing that goes nowhere without the proper context. It's great that when I'm not around for a while your egos will allow you to see that maybe I had some idea of merit, as long as you don't bring up the fact that I brought you the research in the first place. But I'm just getting cranky. I've got to get settled back in to work. Guess I'll see you guys around.
-
Zan has alleged that Wily built the first orbital elevator (MM10), although given the gravity shenanigans of that stage, that may not be an elevator at all but just one hell of a free-fall into the sky.
Possible, but elevator or not, it is still orbital. Which would be the biggest challenge in making such a construct. Adding an elevator inside would be a small feat by comparison.
I forgot how most of my time spent with you guys is simply catching you up to speed to effect a reasonable conversation. Thanks for reminding me why I don't drop by more often.
That's to be expected in any fanbase with a large amount of obscure information hidden behind a language barrier. I think you will find we are more up to speed than most, unless you just want people taking your words for granted.
In this case, the fact that solar was localized as plasma was well known. But plasma as something unique in its own right was not something ever discussed before.
Where this applies to RO, there is the following:
태양 에너지 - This would be "Solar Energy" and a 1:1 translation from the Japanese of what the buster should be running on.
플 라스마 - This is "Plasma". If you read the site and thought to reverse-engineer what you had read to apply to the Japanese version, you would arrive at a faulty conclusion contradicting what they had actually set forth.
Why could we not simply consider this case of "Plasma" to be the Korean localization of "Solar"? Just like any other localization issue, we in our minds simply revert it to mean Solar. In our years of dealing with localization, to determine what is and isn't nonsense, should be something we're used to by now.
In X7 this involved many using the same weapon, and all of which using the same basic form as X. But more importantly, the X Compendium and X7 books explain that AXL has the same special weapon ability X does.
I knew as much, but still we must acknowledge a slight difference between X's ability and Axl's.
Another example I was considering while on the subject. The very idea of Duo punching people out is itself but a nod to Ariga (which they got long before we did). Fun and silly, but how practical is it? Would Duo as a warrior for justice seriously start punching friends and strangers for white lies? There is so clearly a pop culture element involved in these biographies.
Manga acknowledgment in even Capcom's own materials is nothing uncommon. Eagleed in Day of Sigma comes to mind.
I would be more impressed by their attention to fine "details" if they didn't overlook them so regularly.
So "Plasma" and "VWS", that makes two cases. For us to consider overlooking such details a regular thing, what else is there?
If RO explains in their next blog post how here in the future everyone in this "Rockman" universe calls "repliroids" just "reploids"
Reploid and Repliroid are known to hold the same meaning; one is the localization of the other. Humaroid is either a new term introduced in this setting, to refer to the humanoid robots of the past, or a localization of humanoid robots. Can't we just glance over such localization differences?
You already pointed them out-ages of peace after the X series including Command Mission and with no public record of Neo Arcadia outside the cryptic visions of Cinnamon copies. More specifically for Command Mission, there are 1XX years from Zero's initial building and sealing to the start of the Zero series. These include a first sealing of unknown time, a second one following the Nightmare Incident occurring roughly some 50 years at least, and a third lasting a 100 years from the Elf Wars. With over 150 years accounted for with sealings coupled with Zero being a robot from an earlier era that is the same as X's at the very beginning of the series, most of all of this time is spent sleeping and perhaps only a decade or two at most of actual X series can occur in the time that is left. For Command Mission to fit in before Zero's second seal he must have been sealed initially after 2150. Placing it during or after the Elf Wars is similarly disjointing with little intermingled plot elements to fit its era. And we've already talked about all this last time. Oh well.
As we discussed last time, Command Mission might be tricky to place in relation to the ZC timeline, but by no means is it impossible. Furthermore, we were also doubting the actual timeframe and label of Zero's first seal. None of this can be faulted to Rockman Online.
With RO acknowledging Command Mission but not Rockman Zero, does RO in and of itself not fix all the above problems by being in an alternate timeline to Rockman Zero? At the very least known history up to RockmanX6 is in tact.
I just feel like it's the same old thing that goes nowhere without the proper context. It's great that when I'm not around for a while your egos will allow you to see that maybe I had some idea of merit, as long as you don't bring up the fact that I brought you the research in the first place.
The concept of a branching timeline isn't anything particularly new. It's been thrown around since the very beginning of Rockman Zero existing alongside the X-series. All you did was successfully argue it without having the strong bias against the continuing X-series that many others seem to suffer from. Back then we did indeed consider it as having merit, we just didn't see a branch as absolute necessity, nor confirmed.
Until necessity and/or confirmation are given to us, why choose branching over linearity? This is not yet like Twilight Princess and Wind Waker where the producers have outright confirmed the matter. Perhaps we should simply be more vocal toward the developers with these kind of questions?
-
Though--I dunno, is it safe to say that Novas Adventuras de Megaman was totally isolated from CoJ?
You guys have got to stop mentioning this not-at-all charming piece of comic book trash. It's like saying Beetlejuice three times over. But instead of Michael Keaton, you get me.
NAdMM was going to be its own AU to begin with, so continuity? Heh heh, yeah, as if, that thing rewrote its backstory two times over. I'd say three if they could land 4 more issues.
But, to the point, they always said the scripts were sent and approved by Capcom of Japan.
Especially in the letters section, when a reader's letter was "What the [tornado fang] is this [parasitic bomb]?!".
Ah, and speaking of AUs and whatnot, I'm not really following the little words Neowiz is releasing periodically about MMO, but a friend of mine is keeping a look on it and she won't shut up about it. I heard they talked "centuries" after the end of the X series though don't remember the source.
This hands-on from the G-Star build says the timeframe is 22XX (http://www.gameshot.net/common/con_view.php?code=GA4ce682f4b16cb). I'm guessing it's a hiccup more than likely. Or not. You'd know before I do, 'cuz I'm not really caring about their justification for the free-for-all character fest we're getting.
Now I'll let the thread follow its usual course.
-
But, to the point, they always said the scripts were sent and approved by Capcom of Japan.
I must've forgotten that bit. Though knowing about what happens in #4 and Roll's frequent nudity and X being Pervy McPervington, I have to wonder just how closely CoJ looked at those scripts. :/ But anyway.
22XX? Timeline headaches, away! D: And I'm pretty sure that CM took place in 22XX, unless they mean the tail end of 22XX and CM was in the spring or something...
'cuz I'm not really caring about their justification for the free-for-all character fest we're getting.
Not liking the Clone Saga angle they took either, huh?
-
Not liking the Clone Saga angle they took either, huh?
I liked the Clone Saga (not that the thing is without flaws. Don't play strawman now, kids) and I disapprove of your attempt to try to TvTrope-ize the name of that beautifully overstretched (note: sarcasm) story arc for something that makes you sad and cold inside.
But no, this has no bearing either to why I'm not interested in their plot.
I didn't really care what they would have passing for one from the very first animated trailer. When I saw Original series characters thrown in the fray and Iris around and all that I was more concerned with just enjoying something that seemed that was already going to be an AU from day one than bend my mind and heart (and possibly other bodily pieces) to piece it into "canon" or anything.
I'm really glad to see Command Mission characters thrown in again and I really couldn't care less whether it's mass produced clones, or some alternate timeline where they never died, or if they were revived by the MYSTERIOUS POWER OF VOODOO.
-
and I disapprove of your attempt to try to TvTrope-ize the name of that beautifully overstretched (note: sarcasm) story arc for something that makes you sad and cold inside.
Ack. D: Sorry.
Using CM characters was a good thing in my book, too, but the fact that they're not the same characters that I actually give a crap about is...depressing, to say the least. (Plus the trailers give no indication that everyone's dead and it's all clones)
-
]And I believe you already have access to other people's translated resources (http://kobun20.interordi.com/2010/07/19/dr-im-always-right-breaks-it-down/) explaining how a normal buster and charge shot (http://kobun20.interordi.com/2010/09/20/ask-me-3-the-final-lesson/) works available to you to have come to an understanding of how Rock and X's normal busters are always described as solar bullets made from wavelengths of energy from the sun that are condensed, and not being themselves mini-suns or anything of the sort.
Are you sure about that?
Light's talking about Rock, not X. If we are to assume that the same principles apply to both (a safe bet, I'll admit; I know there's more sources than just that on Solar Energy), then your interpretation of the second link raises a contradiction with the games.
Q. Do robots like those made by Dr. Wily or Dr. Cossack have self-awareness, and can they talk? And do they run on solar energy like Rockman does?
A. ...
Regarding their energy systems, many of them do utilize “solar energy” in some way.
Rock doesn't just "attack" with solar energy, he "runs on" solar energy. If this is taken to refer to solar radiation, why does X carry a fuel tank for "micro-fusion" (noting that nuclear fusion requires plasma)?
If we are to assume that X runs on the same "solar energy" as Rock, then X's use of fusion can only mean that "solar energy" in this context is properly understood in the broader sense of "energy relating to the sun", and not necessarily just passively gathering the sun's electromagnetic radiation, as we understand it with real-world technology. Mega Man/Rockman would not be the first sci-fi franchise to do this, either (look up the specifics of what powers a Star Destroyer sometime).
Incidentally, this is something I already (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=5458.msg292328#msg292328) brought up, twice (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=5458.msg292380#msg292380), and you've continued to neglect it. As an in-game stated fact it's particularly relevant to an argument consisting of "because Capcom said so", don't you think? Unless you can show otherwise, we have no grounds for discarding it, so it must co-exist with the sourcebook statements.
So the next time you complain about our discussions being circular (and you're right, this is far from the first time), don't just point the finger at us. You're guilty of the same. You have a tendency to simply re-state your rationale rather than acknowledge a matter of interpretation and actively attempt to debunk anything.
And as far as information access goes, the Reploid Research Lavatory is a FRIKKIN HUGE deposit of information which is indexed by absolutely nothing other than SB20's post date. I shouldn't have to explain to you why keeping up with every morsel out of there is a task and a half. Whatever information you're basing your argument on, it is expected that you are familiar with it, and it is your responsibility to present it, rather than just assume that everyone "should" know. You don't see me throwing that in your face when I have to reference an in-game spec sheet to you, something which is infinitely easier to find.
-
Well, Sigma now appears to be one of the antagonistic forces in Rockman Online. So does that change anyone's view of this project's place in the canon? After all, Lumine stated categorically in X8 that Sigma would be gone for good. He's clearly not gone for good in this game. Any educated thoughts?
-
Well, Sigma now appears to be one of the antagonistic forces in Rockman Online. So does that change anyone's view of this project's place in the canon? After all, Lumine stated categorically in X8 that Sigma would be gone for good. He's clearly not gone for good in this game. Any educated thoughts?
Either that's not really Sigma, Lumine was wrong, or any chance of RO fitting into MMX continuity is still nil.
-
(http://cassandrapoe.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/uracast.jpg)
Welcome to September. Sure, it's not THE Sigma, but it's A Sigma.
Putting arguments over specific continuity details aside, can't it be assumed that the URA use some method similar to the UCA in order to bring back otherwise deceased Irregular Repliroids and Humaroids? Wall of text inbound... >_>
-
Putting arguments over specific continuity details aside, can't it be assumed that the URA use some method similar to the UCA in order to bring back otherwise deceased Irregular Repliroids and Humaroids?
It could be assumed, but then it'd mean MORE CLONES. D:
-
Why would that be surprising? Who in all of RMO have we confirmed ISN'T a clone? Even the navigators are questionable considering that Iris is among them (and really, who here buys Signas, Alia, and Layer outliving X and Zero?).
Putting arguments over specific continuity details aside, can't it be assumed that the URA use some method similar to the UCA in order to bring back otherwise deceased Irregular Repliroids and Humaroids? Wall of text inbound... >_>
I certainly don't see why not.
-
(and really, who here buys Signas, Alia, and Layer outliving X and Zero?).
They still have a job to do, so they aren't stored in a musem somewhere, considering reploids don't necessarily age (considering that kind of technology doesn't exist..yet in the MMO timeline, by that time however it looks as if they have perfected cloning rather than aging)
The Questioning of the real Sigma possibly returning, now THAT is something to look into with the MMO's recent update.
-
Why would that be surprising? Who in all of RMO have we confirmed ISN'T a clone? Even the navigators are questionable considering that Iris is among them (and really, who here buys Signas, Alia, and Layer outliving X and Zero?).
Not surprising, just depressing.
I really, really hope that they can do something impressive with all these clones, and that they didn't go with that angle just because it'd mean not bothering with an extensive character creation system.
-
Well, Gonzo, as fun as character creation is (and I LOVE IT, believe me), it really doesn't work with a franchise that throughout its entire life has highlighted its playable characters. The alternative is to throw every familiar character into the "NPC" category, which IMHO would have been a lot worse. This way, people can pick their favorite, without half the group fighting over who gets to be Zero.
-
When put that way...I guess it makes sense, then. (Though IIRC the DBZ games did the same thing, and its MMO didn't resort to cloning)
Still, I have to wonder if they could've justified mass cloning WITHOUT killing everyone (Navigators possibly included). Maybe the heroes realized that things had gotten so bad that simply one of each of them wasn't enough? Maybe their armour was mass-produced? Instead--well, at this point I'd just be a broken record.
-
Well, for one, Id doubt the real deals would accept something like cloning the likes of themselves and Hunters.
-
Necessary evil? I dunno.
Blues (http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2011/01/blues-makes-his-rockman-online-debute.html) has been highlighted at the RMO blog; it's implied that he'll have a major role in the plot.
Protodude says he's been resurrected, so if that's true, we can already glean two things: 1.) he died prior to RMO (durr), and 2.) unless I've forgotten something about the bad guys, he's probably a clone. GGNNNNAAAAARRGH
-
You should have seen it coming.
-
You should have seen it coming.
True.
There was still hope, though...
-
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Kamen_Rider_Accel.jpg)
Oh, hi. Blues, was it?
-
I like how the ingame designs look nothing like in the promo vid :D
-
I like how Blues' belt is pointing directly at his "Blues buster"
-
lol it is.
-
Does anyone want to discuss the newer updates?
-
Does anyone want to discuss the newer updates?
No.
-
No.
;^;
-
Actually, I thought the comparison between Forte and Repliroids was pretty interesting.
-
I can't wait to see the explanation for why Wily's in this.
-
http://www.themmnetwork.com/2011/07/29/rockman-online-update-discusses-force-metal/
Finally, an update.
Essentially, everyone wants Force Metal. Gaudile is working on purifying it so that its users won't suffer the side effects, whilst Dr. Psyche is all "Hooray for body horror!"
-
Of course Psyche is all psyched for body horror. His favourite form is that of a floating tentacle monster with lazo beams.
-
I have my doubts on if this game will be released or not. Legends 3 and Universe were cancelled and Capcom pulled Mega Man out of MvC3. Also, Capcom announced recently that they want to have as little to do with Mega Man as possible--due to Keiji Inafune.
-
Also, Capcom announced recently that they want to have as little to do with Mega Man as possible--due to Keiji Inafune.
Wait what where? Seriously?
Posted on: August 05, 2011, 12:32:55 AM
According to this, (http://www.rockmancorner.com/2011/11/first-batch-of-rockman-online-questions.html) RMO will incorporate "contents and scenarios" from every MM series, not just Classic and X/MMXCM.
Posted on: November 06, 2011, 06:34:47 PM
Very minor, but there's a new Navigator, Irene! (http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/General-RADIX/megamanOnlinechristmasIrene.jpg) Apparently, she'll be the one overseeing the players' progress; hopefully, we'll get her non-Christmas armour/colour scheme soon.
-
Do the other navigators get a holiday suit as well? Also, reminds me of hurricane Irene for some [parasitic bomb] reason.
-
Do the other navigators get a holiday suit as well?
Yep. (http://www.themmnetwork.com/2011/12/23/rockman-online-brings-holiday-cheer-with-christmas-message-new-navigator-and-more-qa/)
While more questions have been answered (not yet translated), they all seem to be just as vague as before.
-
Ha ha, pallette was such an awful navigator that they didnt even include her in RMO
-
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2dmf5dy.jpg)
I find that condradictory to that statement. They didin't feature her since they already knew she had christmas colors enough already, plus they needed to add in a new one, too.. and this is RMO we are talking about, the god of vaugeness.
-
Damn it O:<
hopes and dreams ruined
-
What's with the Powered Up art style all of a sudden?
-
I think it's to keep it less cluttered, and for simplicity's sake, you know how complex an RMO design can get. -u-'
-
Personally, I remain hopeful that three things will happen with this game:
1. That talks with Neowiz go well and Capcom USA gets the infrastructure needed to bring this game to America.
2. That is has gamepad support.
3. That we talk about it more.
The first one comes from the most recent Ask Capcom video. For those that don't know, Sven stated he was talking to Neowiz about what would need to happen for the Ghouls and ghosts MMO as well as Mega Man Online to come to America. Hopefully they can get the equipment needed for both, I would love to hunt Robot Masters/Mavericks with you guys!
-
Yeah I would love to play this.
-
Talk about bringing Megaman/Rockman Online over to America? That's good to hear, I like to try it out!
-
Well there goes Rockman Online, it was nice almost knowing you.
http://www.themmnetwork.com/2012/05/07/neowiz-restructering-leads-to-rockman-online-worries/
-
Well there goes Rockman Online, it was nice almost knowing you.
http://www.themmnetwork.com/2012/05/07/neowiz-restructering-leads-to-rockman-online-worries/
That's... horrible news. X(
I know it's not official cancelled or outright stated, but given the direction the game is going, that's another Mega Man game being cancelled. First Mega Man Universe, Mega Man Legends 3, no Mega Man in (U)MvC3 (Zero doesn't really count nor does his costume), and now this?!
The future isn't looking bright for the blue bomber. Hopefully the GAMEON Studio will take Rockman Online and continue development on it... it looks very promising and all the hard work put into that game will be wasted! I really hate when games, especially ones I like and want to get, are cancelled or whatnot.
-
The only consolation is that we'll have a good idea of why it was cancelled (stuck in development hell), unlike the other two MM games.
-
Someone within the company circles is definitely halting all these projects (on purpose or not, I can't say). ^^;;
-
here comes more megaman bitching
capcomyucancelallmegamangamesyoumusthatemegaman!
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/006/y-u-no-guy.jpg)
-
I still think it's out of spite towards Inafune. he was the only one really pushing for Mega Man games.
And Capcom is making it very hard for me to think otherwise.
-
*tosses RMO's dead carcase into the pile with Universe and Legends 3*
Mother [tornado fang]er. I didn't wholly expect to be able to play it, given the region issue, but mother [tornado fang]er.
-
It's not dead yet, but I dunno if Capcom lets third-party projects get transferred over...
-
It's not dead yet, but it might as well be. We all know the most likely scenario that will unfold here.
Theres like, a 90 percent chance that Capcom will just can it, and only about 10 percent, possibly less, chance- that it will get transferred over to that affiliate.
-
*tosses RMO's dead carcase into the pile with Universe and Legends 3*
Mother [tornado fang]er. I didn't wholly expect to be able to play it, given the region issue, but mother [tornado fang]er.
My thoughts exactly.
Capcom will, perhaps justifiably so, play the "we weren't developing this one so it's not our fault and we will do nothing about it" card. Same thing they're doing with the whole "will or will not Project X Zone be localized" issue. But that doesn't make it suck any less.
-
I'm disappointed in this turn of events >_<
-
I'm disappointed in this turn of events >_<
You see what you did Capcom?
The west is disappointed in you! The entire west!
-
Especially Adam West
-
Guess what, everyone? Rockman Online is most likely cancelled! (http://www.rockmancorner.com/2012/09/new-rockman-online-art-emerges.html)
*thunk*
Three games in a row. Goddamn.
-
Bit late there Gonz. Check the news board.-
-
Bit late there Gonz. Check the news board.-
...well, I HAD only been awake for an hour or so.
hurr duurrr.
-
You'd think they might've tried to keep Online alive since the mostly negative reactions to Xover, but I guess it couldn't be helped, and this is probably the reason Xover was created.
-
Welp, I can't say as I'm surprised by this turn of events. Work pretty much came to a halt when the company was in the middle of changing hands. This just kind of makes things more official.
-
It's not a total loss.
At least the trailers were the best I've seen for a Mega Man game since forever.
But yeah, it stings.
-
Good. Now they can make my totally PC Mega Man Battle Network online environment that they SHOULD'VE DONE YEARS AGO. I want my goddamn customizable PB.EXE Navi already! I wanna go a virus bustin' with other RPMers.
[tornado fang]!
-
I'd actually love to play an online Rockman game, but I don't think Rockman Online was the one. It looked too ... slow. I think, if they wanted to make an MMO about Mega Man, they should go a little more lo-fi and spend their money on a serviceable global network and grewd game design. And it should be all about either co-op jumpin-n-shootan' or race/competitive jumpin-n-shootan'.
[tornado fang] SABERS. I HATE EM. GRUMP GRUMP GRUMP.
-
Online IMO seemed pretty much just co-op Mega Man. Stages didnt seem too differently designed than other 2D franchise games.
Though yeah, a BN MMO is something that im surprised was never done.
-
I'm betting I'm the only one irked by how much of a pussy X looked like in the second trailer compared with [tornado fang]ing everybody else.
Well, it's a mixture of irk and mirth laced with cynical sarcasm.
-
I thought it was more hillarious he couldn't beat Airman.
Must run in the family.
-
RMO vanishes from NeoWiz's front page. (http://www.rockman-corner.com/2012/11/rockman-online-vanishes-from-neowiz.html)
I doubt the project got transferred to another company, so better head to that development blog and start saving everything you can.