RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => X => Topic started by: Flame on August 17, 2009, 12:44:01 AM
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With all this talk of X9 and what it should be like, yadda yadda yadda, I look at X8, and I see that in the end, I didnt really like it.
I posted this in the Capcom unity forums, and figured Id put it here too.
Megaman X8. the X series triumphant return after X7, which was an all around rushed unfinished product.
However, I felth that it really just didnt cut it for me... X8 was good mind you, i enjoyed playing it, like any other X game... I enjoyed X7 too. but I didnt really "like" it.
X8 just felt lacking... SERIOUSLY lacking... It just doesnt feel right. The music feels hollow and just doesnt fit.. like they tried too hard and said "Yeah, lets put rock in it! that makes it a megaman game! Megaman games all have rock right?" Which isnt true... its not supposed to be all rock. Its supposed to be slightly varied. All the rock in X8 just sounded all the same to me... there were not too many memorable tunes. They were bland.
The gameplay was not that great either. While the basic running and shooting things up to bits was just as it should be, there were very little enemies, and not strategiclly placed to give you a hard time. Mostly just big bulky ones to take up space, and then moving ones to give the impression of more. The rest were small. The intro stage had those missile launchers, but the rest was bees, and crabs. then a few mets and those shovel things, along with a fw Bladys to run into you. they were all widely placed. Then Trillobytes stage made an impression of a long level by simply giving you the same area twice, and then a few short battles thrown in with an easily defeated giant robot. The city level. That was all just one big annoying loop. Whatever happened to bike stages the likes of X4and the short bit in X5? Yeti's level was better than that. it was among one of the better ones. the bike stage there was pretty well done. Then theres Pitch black, which is just one big wannabe stealth op. with almost NO enemies, and when you trip a light, THEN security guards come out. which are easily dispatched by killing the leader. then once you turn on the light, Zero might as well drop his saber and use his hands, as there are very few enemies, and small ones, at that. The fact that you could break sheilds so easily was also pretty broken. It reduced the challenge by a bit.
Then there were the NewGens in the stages. they just stood there and shot at you, when they could have I dunno, maybe transformed and chased you or something? The ones in Sigma's palace were pitiful... as was the rest of the stage. Almost NO enemies. they were all bunched up in the entrance to the palace. It was worse than X3 with its empty corridors. The whole stage was almost empty aside from a few Sigma clones here and there, and a small crab shooting at me from the ceiling.
Then, I didnt quite like the "shop" system they had set up. there are much better ways to do it, and I prefer having to FIND things in the stages. It ads replay value to them. Instead, there was very little exploration and thinking involved, as you simply picked up Metals and then bought an item once they had it. the only things that you had to find, were Rare metals and Light's Capsules. Both of which were very badly hidden. All the things that are usually the hard to find or get items that make you stronger and make the game easier, were just buyable. Heart tanks, Sub tanks, ability chips. they even had WE ups. All buyable. which means I really dont even haveto visit any of the stages once Ive beaten it. which means little replay value. especially by abusing the Subtank/Metals glitch.
The Bosses were alright I guess. The only reason theyre challenging is because until you level yours up, they have a much longer health bar than you. just like all recent X games.
Many of the weapons were useless outside of bossfights too. With how powerful you could make the buster and Saber, you didnt need them. Axl is the only one who gets milage out of his weapons, as some of them are more practical depending on the situation.
Then there are minor qualms that while they have little impact on the experience, should to be noted anyway.
The redesigns. While I have no problem with giving redesigns, these in particular just did not look good in game. The in game models looked very weird and too long, in comparison with the artwork. In fact, the only place they looked great, was the cover and the cutscenes.
Zero's helmet. I dont even need to talk about this one. I mean, seriously? His helmet is his most striking feature! and they go and dumb down his prongs. As a matter of fact, Maverick Hunter X didnt get them right either.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/I_am_X2007/Zerohelmets-2.png)
The armors. They were all just recolors... Dont be lazy... Seriously. with the excuse of neutral armor, every X armor in the game is just a recolor. and the mugshot was lazy too. Its neutral armor. no other colors corresponding to the others. And the design was rather strange. but maybe that ws the mouth guard collar that X had.
Ultimate armor. Alright, Im happy that it was put in, but was it absolutely NESSECARY to make it just another recolor of Neutral? Ever since X7 was announced, I have wondered what a 3D ultimate armor would look like, and how awesome it would be. I still have not seen a 3D ultimate armor. The closes to it being X Command mission's X-Fire hyper mode, which slightly looks like the Ultimate Armor. Its abilities were slightly changed as well. The hover function was removed. Not that its that big a deal, but still.
Zero's Dash. What the hell happened here?
And thats pretty much it...
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What do Zero and Batman have in common? Both have fans that fight over their pointy headthings.
I liked Zero's design in X8.
X8 wasn't the best thing ever, but it was enjoyable. And quite a good 2.5D rendition of the classic formula. I have few complaints. The biggest would be that most music tracks are pretty forgettable. Some stand out, but that's it.
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I didn't really like that 50% of the stages (Sunflower, Man-O-War, Mantis, and hell even Pandamonium with 80% Ride armor) focused too much on a gimmick. Another thing... Retry Chips? Seriously? Thats the worst idea since limited continues, maximum of 5 Lives... ::).
Another thing... does anybody else think the gravity in this game is a little too heavy?
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Perhaps this will change your mind? 8D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoXbefw43_w)
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Good, could've been better.
Music was on par though.
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What do Zero and Batman have in common? Both have fans that fight over their pointy headthings.
I liked Zero's design in X8.
X8 wasn't the best thing ever, but it was enjoyable. And quite a good 2.5D rendition of the classic formula. I have few complaints. The biggest would be that most music tracks are pretty forgettable. Some stand out, but that's it.
the designs were good, the models looked weird. Zero's helmet got [tornado fang]'d up though. :P
Perhaps this will change your mind? 8D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoXbefw43_w)
I lol'd. it just might. XD
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Bleh, if only they spent less time with the fanservice (Seems to happen in a lot of games, where the hot/cute/exotic woman is in the cover expecting the game to be good). Look what happened with Iris, and again, "They never learned from Sky Lagoon".
My gripe with Iris is not the design, 'twas the character excecution. turned out to be an attempt of expanding the story than "Oh noes! Sigma's back again!". But backfired enough that it created a meme. I thought X6's storyline was better because it was much more involved with Zero's past. :/
The misdub funtime was okay though.. and the models looks like it jumped RIGHT out of Code Geass, you know how long those legs were. What I am trying to say is, "Boobs and pretty graphics don't make the game.. but they do make the fanservice!".
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I find stages to be a little too short, but maybe it's because of that lack of enemies, so you just beam down, run/fly, and suddenly you're in the boss chamber. Zero's fun weapons make it up for me, though.
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What the hell do Iris and Fanservice have anything to do with this?
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What the hell do Iris and Fanservice have anything to do with this?
I just needed to get something off that was bugging me about most games today. I honestly thought that when X7 came out, I thought they pulled a Lengend of Zelda and slightly screwed the "Zero Origin" plot a bit.
Guess I kinda went overboard on that bit, sorry. :(
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OK, personally I share Acid's opinion on X8, it was good for what it was and served as a decent spring board from the 2D games, but I do agree with you on some of the points you brought up in regards to the music, enemy variety, and levels, but the other things seem kinda nitpicky with the faults you listed in the game. The biggest of these are the character redesigns. The in-game models I'll give you, but the paper redesigns weren't too bad. I do however think that if X8 could have looked like the drawn stills of the characters in the Wild Fang OP there would be no contest as to it's quality.
I just needed to get something off that was bugging me about most games today. I honestly thought that when X7 came out, I thought they pulled a Lengend of Zelda and slightly screwed the "Zero Origin" plot a bit.
Guess I kinda went overboard on that bit, sorry. :(
Two things, first off, what? Secondly, do you use FireFox? If so do you see a red squiggly line under this? Do us all a favor:
Right click and check the spelling before posting.
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Right click and check the spelling before posting.
How'd that happen? Sorry, I had (some) gripes on X4 and attempted to try to bring them out.. and failed miserably. two, was I THAT in a hurry that I didin't check my spelling? huh.. I'm gonna fix that, plus I use IE.
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Ill say it again...
The redesigns. While I have no problem with giving redesigns, these in particular just did not look good in game. The in game models looked very weird and too long, in comparison with the artwork. In fact, the only place they looked great, was the cover and the cutscenes.
Never said I didnt like them. just hated the way they looked like in the actual gameplay. the models. Yknow, actually, Zero's helmet looked not bad in the CG cutscenes for some reason.
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You've gotta admit though, the name Bamboo Pandamonium [tornado fang]ing rocks!
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The models in X8 were pretty spot on. Leagues better than the stuff we saw in Command mission.
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In all seriousness, since most of RPM knows about my abject and stubborn hatred for X7, X8 was a very refreshing game for PB.
However, I don't think any will ever top X1-X3 for me.
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The models in X8 were pretty spot on. Leagues better than the stuff we saw in Command mission.
What was wrong with Command mission's models? (Besides no facial expressions)
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Pros:
~Kickass music.
~Axl actually being useful.
Cons:
~Turtleneck armors for X.
~Aforementioned Zero tomfoolery.
~RIDE CHASER LEVELS.
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You've gotta admit though, the name Bamboo Pandamonium [tornado fang]ing rocks!
That's about the only thing that really sticks out for me, regarding X8. Beyond that, it wasn't anything that I thought was REALLY all that good, and was I soon back to playing the Zero games again. 8D
I mean, saying that it was a refreshing breath of air after X7, is like saying that getting a slap in the face is better than getting a wholesale ass-whupping. It's definitely an improvement, but I still didn't think it was worth me spending the MSRP for it, when it came out.
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What was wrong with Command mission's models? (Besides no facial expressions)
I could ask you the same regarding X8's models.
Command Mission had disproportionate eggheaded bigfoot robots.
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Someone said Zero series and now I have to play this card. The Zero series as a whole borderline beats out the X series overall.
I could ask you the same regarding X8's models.
Command Mission had disproportionate eggheaded bigfoot robots.
Not to mention the color pallette was all over the place and kinda detracted from the (awesome) art they used to detail them in the manual and official stuff.
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What was wrong with Command mission's models? (Besides no facial expressions)
Both of them were 2004 games. ^^ </psp>
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Someone said Zero series and now I have to play this card. The Zero series as a whole borderline beats out the X series overall.
I humbly disagree. Might be nostalgia talking, but X-1-3 are easily ob par with Z for me.
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Eh, I like the game, it's no X1-X3 nor Z1-4, but I still enjoyed it and wouldn't mind replaying it here and then~
and I like Burn Rooster~
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Both of them were 2004 games. ^^ </psp>
I lol'd. XD
I humbly disagree. Might be nostalgia talking, but X-1-3 are easily ob par with Z for me.
No doubts here, actually I'd extend it to X1 - X4 personally. Something about the Zero series however came close to trumping the X series when we compare them as wholes.
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Z series was a tidbit faster and less forgiving I think. Gives you a more rewarding feeling when you beat it.
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One of these days I should get around to playing the Zero series!
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One of these days I should get around to playing the Zero series!
... You mean you haven't already? D:
Now I know what Hypershell feels like when he champions Xtreme 2 to you. XD
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Someone said Zero series and now I have to play this card. The Zero series as a whole borderline beats out the X series overall.
Even if the best MMZ game (MMZ3) were to somehow cancel the sheer awesome of MMX1, X2-5 beat the snot out of MMZ1, 2, and 4, so, no. And remember, I got into MMX and MM in general in '98.
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and I like Burn Rooster~
Oh, Flaming Cock?
I could ask you the same regarding X8's models.
Command Mission had disproportionate eggheaded bigfoot robots.
the legs mostly seemed too long and overly skinny in the models when compared to the art itself, and their poses didnt help the matter. Axl was the only one I thought looked pretty good with the models. and his pose.
also, like the rest of the X series doesnt have bigfooted robots. >__> and only X had the egghead.
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Oh, Flaming Cock?
awesomely screaming flaming la cock indeed
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X8's actually one of my favorite X games. bullet points following.
- the changes made to the X formula didn't bother me at all. i liked the Devil May Cry powerup system, for one.
- Axl is actually useful and fun to play as. and the Copy Shot didn't suck.
- though the Neutral Armor looked iffy, you could mix and match the parts from all the armors, which was a sweet idea.
- i thought the majority of the music in X8 was kickass.
- the stage gimmick argument is stupid, as almost every stage in X games has some sort of gimmick going on. you don't ever have to use the Ride Armor. and stealth has been done before; see Magna Centipede.
- i don't find either Ride Chaser stage annoying at all. though Man-O-War's stage is really quick.
- the game probably has the most extras of an X game. all three characters have ultimate forms. Zero has a slew of weapons to use, and many of them changed his special moves. and you can unlock the Navigators and Intermissions.
- though the game has a ranking system, it's not dependent on anything you need to unlock. (looking at you, Zero and ZX) it's only for bragging rights.
- though everyone has Clamp Syndrome in this game, i much prefer that to how bulky everyone was in Command Mission.
but most importantly, the game just flowed very well. that's something i value highly in a game, along with its "pick it up and beat it when you're bored" nature. i love a game that i could never get tired of beating, and X8 is no exception.
is it a perfect game? no. X and Axl's arsenals were a little lacking, as were some of the boss designs. and the 2D bike segments are inheretly better than 3D ones. but on the whole i think it's a very solid game that can hold its own against the other great X games.
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X8 was meh. I'll explain more indepth when I'm not doing a podcast
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X8 is undoubtably my favorite X series game after MHX because, sadly, I have never played X1-6. The first X game i played was technically MM Xtreme for the gameboy, then i got ahold of X7 and thought it was good.
I mean sure, some of the stages made me want to beat Capcom's face in with a sledgeahmmer(*cough*Primrose*cough*), but i still had fun getting through the game. I didn't like how Zero, THE MELEE GUY, was rediculously slow, however. It kinda defeats the purpose of his awsomeness if it takes him 2 minutes to get up to the enemies to cleave them in half. Or at least he seemed slow to me compaired to X or Axl. The Character designs never bugged me, though i always did wonder if X8 came before Command Mission or after it(storyline-wise). It seems kinda weird for Axl to be looking into his origin if he already knows he's a Prototype, but the lack of mention of Force Metals in X8 also seems confusing. X's CM design seems like a reasonable mid-point between his X7 and X8 forms, but other then that i'm not sure where X8 and CM fall in the timeline fo the X series.
All-in-all, a damn good game that X9 is really going to have to try and surpass by a LOT. But that's just my oppinion.
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The real problem with X8 is that the level design mostly sucks. Most of the other problems can be ignored pretty easily, but when half the levels just aren't fun to play, there's not really much of a reason to play the game.
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Eh, X1-X3 are my favourites of the X series, X3 being slightly behind the other two. The level design was more coherent back then (with a few mishaps here and there of course), considering nothing got close to the annoyingness of ride chaser levels. Man I hate those levels so so much... and X8 had 2 of the blasted things.
As for comparing the X series as a whole to the Zero series... well, the Zero series sure as hell is more polished, I can tell you that. X5-X7 showcase the laziness that seeped through in the X series, especially when it comes to level design. The Zero series did have some laziness in there as well (the weapons and EX skills come to mind) but at least they were consistently fun to play.
Concerning X8 itself... well, the fact that Axl actually had a point was a plus. He wasn't the nerfed X clone that he was in X7.
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though i always did wonder if X8 came before Command Mission or after it(storyline-wise). It seems kinda weird for Axl to be looking into his origin if he already knows he's a Prototype, but the lack of mention of Force Metals in X8 also seems confusing. X's CM design seems like a reasonable mid-point between his X7 and X8 forms, but other then that i'm not sure where X8 and CM fall in the timeline fo the X series.
X8 = 21XX
XCM = 22XX
X8->XCM
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X8 is a great game with lots of crap to deal with, mainly level design. You have many awesome toys to play around with but not many opportunities to use them.
I like it a lot, but it's one of those games I completely understand if someone hates.
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Didnt hate it... Just felt that there were many things that could have been done much better.
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X7 was superior.
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I liked X7. It was an interesting direction for the X series, that in fact, would work very well if they refined it. Especially the broken physics engine.
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Dang, looks like I missed a fun discussion here. Guess I'll just recap my thoughts on the mentioned titles:
X8 - Hated the art design, was a shame about armor laziness (I blame unwillingness to draw extra mugshots, which you can see carry over into MHX), Zero's dash stinks, and I wish the boss music didn't change mid-battle (the earlier version is so much better). But gameplay-wise it's pretty cool, makes excellent use of New Game Plus (buy all shop crap and leave the capsules; makes Replays a lot more fun), and I love that they gave the Ride Armor its own badass theme song and FRIKKIN INFINITE GROUND DASH!!! I've been waiting for that feature ever since watching Zero dash across the screen in X1.
X7 - Would have worked if Capcom had committed to either 2D or 3D. Their inability to do a proper merger shot the game in the foot (and IMHO they were closer to getting it right in 3D; the game's 2D level design is absolutely horrible, Stonekong excepted). X needs to stop whining, of course.
Z series - Great, although I find Xtreme2 superior. Gameplay-wise, it strikes me as X with better physics but watered-down features. No air-dash, no Earth Gaizer or Double Charge Wave IN ZERO'S OWN FREAKING SERIES, took them until Z3 to do the Double Jump and it barely gets any height, the weakness system is just recoloring your charge attack, the ranking system is senseless, and the art style blows harder than X8's. But the story, though jumbled at times, is awesome, as is character depiction overall. Zero has great dialogue moments in all four games. And even though EX Skills weren't always the greatest, I have to give props where they're due to Z3's V-Shot and Throw Blade, those attacks rocked all socks. Most importantly, the music in the series is in-freaking-credible. Straight Ahead remains my favorite stage theme of all time, and others such as Departure, Trail On Powdery Snow, and so entirely too many others to mention were instant classics. And, last but not least, Inti did in one attempt what Capcom failed to do twice: They actually did a good job of killing Zero.
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And, last but not least, Inti did in one attempt what Capcom failed to do twice: They actually did a good job of killing Zero.
Not nearly good enough if you ask me, considering people still think to this day that he survived.
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Not nearly good enough if you ask me, considering people still think to this day that he survived.
Please don't remind me it's almost as bad as the Cataclysm to me.
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and the art style blows harder than X8's.
Opinions and all but:
(http://i27.tinypic.com/95wsxk.gif)
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Not nearly good enough if you ask me, considering people still think to this day that he survived.
They need to get equipped with ZX.
Honestly, though, such people wouldn't be convinced that Zero was dead if his head was served to them on a platter. He's come back from death and near-death scenarios often enough that many fans are hardened to the point of being oblivious. But the presentation in Z4 left no room for doubt. You spent the entire credits watching Ciel cry over him, after all. Such an over-the-top presentation was pretty much necessary in light of the many situations Zero has pulled through in the past.
But I was referring not to the fact that Zero stayed dead (although I do appreciate that since at Z4 the series started to stagnate), but rather the lead-up and reasonings behind his death. In X1, Zero self-destructed to take out a ride armor whose arm he'd previously blown off. Yeah, that was necessary. In X5, Zero dies in a boss explosion, completely disregarding the fact that he's survived two dozen of them without a scratch, and also completely disregarding how his proximity to the explosion compares to X's, who gets out of it with a sore arm (then seemingly explodes after Sigma shoots him through the chest, if you look closely in the scenes where Light approaches him).
So, yeah, Z4 was the first time when Zero dying actually made sense. He had to do what he did to save the planet, and there's no doubt that being on board a space station as it explodes doesn't leave much room for escape beyond a deus ex machina.
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Escape pod! 8D
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*gives BoMF ZEE UPPERCUT!!*
When you have to stab the core yourself, there's no time for that.
......unless you're Zechs
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Do keep in mind that Zero survived being at the top of an orbital elevator as it exploded in Z1, as ridiculous as that was. That kinda makes his survival more likely in the minds of anyone who was keeping up with the series, and those that really wanted him to survive have ammunition to work with. Having a blurry shadow in the background probably wasn't a good idea either if they really wanted to be clear about it. Showing the helmet only was also a strike against Inti, since if the Helmet survived, so could the rest of him (in the minds of those that wanted him to remain alive, do keep in mind).
The only way it would have been perfectly clear, really, was if they showed him dying. That, however, was probably not an option in this case, so they just tried to beat it into the player's head through other means... means that could easily be discounted if a person tried hard enough, mind you.
I'm not saying that Zero should have lived, I'm just saying it wasn't all that good of a job of making his death crystal clear to everyone.
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Showing the helmet only was also a strike against Inti, since if the Helmet survived, so could the rest of him (in the minds of those that wanted him to remain alive, do keep in mind).
At the end of Mega Man 2, Mega Man stood on a hill, looked at the sun, and melted from its heat, and only his heat-proof helmet survived. There are no Mega Man games after Mega Man 2.
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Not nearly good enough if you ask me, considering people still think to this day that he survived.
Depending on how someone BS's it, there CAN be convincing arguments that he IS alive thanks to ZX. Honestly, I think him gettin' blown up in Z4 was one helluva way to kill off the one that can't be killed.
I thought X5 was pretty damn good and the best of them. X7 wasn't BAD, but compared to the rest of the series, it doesn't hold a candle. X8 was a bit better at that, and the whole recolor argument is true, but probably done so, so that they didn't have to make several different designs that could be 'swapped out' with one another since you could equip different parts rather than the whole suit, and using all of the parts of the same 'set' unlocked a new set of abilities. They could have done better, especially with the Ultimate Armor (was CM released before or after X8?), but for the most part, it was an interesting idea that I didn't mind too much. It seems as if in general the power up system used in the entire series of games just sort of fails. Without ranting, it seems as if there's no real point in using the weapons you get from boss'. They're supposed to be power-ups, not downgrades for your regular weapons. X8 did wonders to Axel though since he somehow ACTUALLY differed from X :O Different set of weapons, changed his gun for each one that (for the most part) shot a different 'bullet' making things a bit more interesting, and the copy ability thing was done better.
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*gives BoMF ZEE UPPERCUT!!*
When you have to stab the core yourself, there's no time for that.
......unless you're Zechs
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/HitomiNeko/gauron.jpg)
....
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That guy took so many episodes to die.
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i say he's still alive.
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Do keep in mind that Zero survived being at the top of an orbital elevator as it exploded in Z1, as ridiculous as that was.
He had X's help.
Showing the helmet only was also a strike against Inti, since if the Helmet survived, so could the rest of him (in the minds of those that wanted him to remain alive, do keep in mind).
The helmet was split in half. One generally doesn't live after their head was split in half.
...unless they're a demon who relocated their heart elsewhe- Screw it, the Japanese have a way to survive everything.
I'm not saying that Zero should have lived, I'm just saying it wasn't all that good of a job of making his death crystal clear to everyone.
I don't see how you get any clearer than having to watch Ciel cry through the whole damn credits.
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I don't see how you get any clearer than having to watch Ciel cry through the whole damn credits.
I thought it was pretty damn clear too, but it obviously somehow managed to not be clear enough >_>'
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X8. I didnt like it all that much.
*post*
I've been saying that ever since '05, but hey, I was just cranky.
But yeah. X8 didn't do any wonders to me, and at least used to be IMO one of the most hyped games of the entire series. If it's worn out I don't know nor do I care, but even when it was supposed to be pure gold (like every last released Mega Man game and [parasitic bomb]), I wasn't in love with it.
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It was an okay game. It doesn't have the charm of any of the games since X4. Actually, I've noticed alot of the megaman games seem to lack the replayability charm. I can replay Megaman 1-8 (haven't played 9) in one go. Just sit there and love it. With everything after its just.. Ugh. X, Zero, whatever. It just doesn't have it anymore.
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i'm almost the opposite. i never get tired of playing most X games, but i usually don't go back and replay Classics.
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For me, it's usually NES & SNES Classic/X games that I'll play more than any other.
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For me, it's usually NES & SNES Classic/X games that I'll play more than any other.
This and Zero series games sums me up. If I had a more convenient way of playing the Legends games, I'd probably have those up here as well.
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I shift around. For the Classic series I go for 1-3, 8, 9, and Power Fighters. X, Zero, ZX, and Legends, I pretty much enjoy replaying anything (besides Xtreme1).
It was an okay game. It doesn't have the charm of any of the games since X4. Actually, I've noticed alot of the megaman games seem to lack the replayability charm. I can replay Megaman 1-8 (haven't played 9) in one go. Just sit there and love it. With everything after its just.. Ugh. X, Zero, whatever. It just doesn't have it anymore.
I've noticed with recent titles that games featuring New Game Plus tend to be easier to replay than those that don't, which is one thing that works in X8's favor. Recent MegaMan games are bogged down with too many sidequests to be starting from scratch every time. In X8, for example, there's no excusing the fact that all those Crystal Wall-required Rare Metals are overkill. That's why I keep a Clear file with no armor parts, so I can replay the game without having to worry about the shop crap.
In a way, MM9 suffers this too. The game is built to depend on the shop as very very few pick-up items exist, but the shop items are too expensive unless you've been Jewel Satellite camping. And in that case the game becomes dirt-simple.
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Let's petition for no more shop systems
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No, lets petition for a BETTER shop system that isnt as broken. MM8 for example, you cant buy everything. you have to choose what you will buy.
maybe make the really good items harder to get.
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They kinda did that in Mega Man 7 with Auto's special bolt, right?
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Auto's Bolt just made items cost less, if I recall correctly.
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If you haven't been able to find the Energy Balancer, Rocket Punch, Rush Search and Rush Jet (and I do mean "if"), you will be able to buy them from him when you give him the Hyper Bolt. You can also buy S cans when you give it to him. ^^
But it's better to just dig everything up, and in one session too, without revisiting levels. :3
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If you haven't been able to find the Energy Balancer, Rocket Punch, Rush Search and Rush Jet (and I do mean "if"), you will be able to buy them from him when you give him the Hyper Bolt. You can also buy S cans when you give it to him. ^^
Actually, you can buy the Energy Balancer, Rush Search, Rush Jet, and S cans before you give him the bolt. It just costs twice as much as it would after you give him the bolt. The Rocket Punch would cost somewhere in the 2000's, which is impossible to hold due to the game's digit count ending at 3 (000). So thats why it becomes available after you get his Bolt for 999 Bolts.
No, lets petition for a BETTER shop system that isnt as broken. MM8 for example, you cant buy everything. you have to choose what you will buy.
maybe make the really good items harder to get.
I agree, MM8 had the system (Mostly) correct. Even if you cheated to get infinite bolts you still wouldn't be able to buy everything thanks to the Game limiting your space for Items bought in the Menu.
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Did you read the same magazine that said that? '>.>
It doesn't matter if you use password to get the items or find them the normal way.
If you don't give him the Hyper Bolt, those items won't show up in his workshop.
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Ok... looking at it again, you're correct. Odd, I thought it was that way when I played it a while ago... my memory must be fuzzy... :\
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i think MMX8's shop system was great. it worked in DMC and VJ, and it works here.
and i think MM8's shop sucks because you can't buy everything. given, a few of the powerups are pretty useless, but i still prefer to have a fully powered character.
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lol completionists.
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that kind of attitude is why we can't have nice things like Hyper Sonic anymore.
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X8's shop is okay, I just wish things weren't so expensive. It takes like 4 runs to 100% all characters without the glitch.
I also wish we didn't have to buy the Rare Metals. We just found the treasure, now we have to pay taxes to enjoy them? I already do that in real life... :\
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i do miss being able to use Sub Tanks and the like immediately when you collect them. that's something i'd like to see X9 do.
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I did have a chance to play my friend's X8 Pc version & I didn't bother to finish or to play it again because:
- I didn't like the rockish music. I kinda felt like they where TRYING TOO HARD to showcase it. Well I'm not a fan of rockish music but I do like those that are truly good. Falcom Jdk Band's Rock music will always be superior.
- Gigabolt Man-o-War stage. *Note: I haven't played X7 & I have no plans to do so*The most stupid & worse stage that I've ever encounter. I mean just to show "ZOMG COOL 3D!!!"? >.> I always thought every time I encounter 3D games that "I wish there's should atleast a bird's eye view setting or a camera view/angle setting". Hmmm
Though I really like B fan. ^^
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I liked Gigabolts stage... Looping 3 times then inexplicably dying was lazy, but the idea of flying after him in a Ride Chaser (or is it Sky Chaser now that they can fly?), dodging obstacles and shooting him down was cool.
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i think it's more like 2.75 loops. the place blows up before you enter the tunnel the third time.
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Too damn slow (both you and YOUR SHOTS), and the music was moronic. If I want to chase a boss on a Ride Chaser, I'll chase Jet Stingray.
No, lets petition for a BETTER shop system that isnt as broken. MM8 for example, you cant buy everything. you have to choose what you will buy.
(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/objection.gif)
You SHOULD be able to buy everything at some point (although it may require New Game Plus, ala Chips in X7), that's not the problem. The problem is when you start buying consumable crap, that should be reserved for stage pick-ups. MM8 had you buy permanent upgrades. Not E-Tanks and Spike Guards. That's what made it better.
I'll also take this opportunity to note that buying/finding everything is not the same thing as equipping everything. See X6 and Xtreme2.
that kind of attitude is why we can't have nice things like Hyper Sonic anymore.
Damn straight.
:cookie:
I also wish we didn't have to buy the Rare Metals. We just found the treasure, now we have to pay taxes to enjoy them? I already do that in real life... :\
Agreed. Rare Metals might have worked if they had been implemented better. At the very possibly least, they shouldn't be buried in the damn ground.
Expense is kind of an issue too. Another thing MM8 did right, your currency wasn't a random drop. They were collectibles in set locations.
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I didn't need any of the buyable items in Rockman 8. I only picked up the 40 screws and then beat the game.
I might have tested them in the past just to see how they work, but I never had any use for them in Wily's Castle. ^^
I always keep the 40 screws on my memory card, so that every time I load the game, I can pick whatever I want~
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Who said anything about needing them? I just can't help but love the Arrow Shot.
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the slide's too slow in MM8. i need the upgraded slide. and yes, Arrow Shot is all kinds of awesome.
Too damn slow (both you and YOUR SHOTS), and the music was moronic.
disagreed with all of the above.
you're supposed to dash so that you are directly behind Man-O-War at all times. NEVER try to snipe him out, cause he will get out of the way, and there is that 3 bullets on screen cap. which if you're directly behind him, doesn't make a difference because you'd be pummeling those blasts into him with no delay.
and i feel the song is very underappreciated. maybe because you can barely hear it in game over Man-O-War's babble and engine roars. it's sorta different from the other tracks in the game in that guitar isn't the focus. it fits the stage very well; it gives the mood of a futuristic city with bright lights all over the place.
however, i do agree that Stingray had the better chase stage.
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With that slooooooooow charge speed in MM8, getting Hyper Charge is actually my favorite moment in the game...
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X8 wasn't too bad, IMO. One key thing that bothered me was the stage design. 2 auto-scrolling and 2 ride chaser stages is pretty much overkill in that department. Also, I don't mind the switching mechanic, but I like having the L2 Button free for dashing, which messes that up for me. Seeing as all of the buttons are actually used in this game, reconfiguring the controls to my liking is a bit more of a hassle than I would like it to be.
I didn't find the music to be bad, but I think they focused a little too much on the rock aspect. Primrose and Dynasty were the only songs that felt different than the others, and you can barely hear the former with all the sound effects blasting from the game. I actually don't mind the fact that the boss music changes, at least not on Normal mode, anyway. On Hard mode, having to listen to that repetitive beat with 50 more health to go is pretty annoying.
The arsenal of a MMX game is often a deciding factor for the games enjoyment IMO, and X8's is pretty decent. There are some fun ones (D. Diamond, Ice Gatling, Thunder Dancer), and some stupid ones (Shadow Runner is a bit weird at times), but they tend to get the job done. This is also the first X game (possibly barring X6) that actually gives you a benefit for not having a special weapon equipped; the ability to charge and shoot at the same time turns X into a very broken character. The use of different weapons for Zero made the game more challenging (less is you used Sigma Blade); try knocking out all 8 bosses w/only the K. Knuckle, it's not exactly a cakewalk.
The armors weren't bad; the mix and match gimmick worked out rather nicely, although I prefer my armor whole. The designs wasn't too great, and making the Ultimate Armor another recolor was a letdown. I feel that the Hermes Armor and X-Drive are severely underrated. X-Drive is invincible on activation, allows X to take 75% of boss attacks w/o being hurt, and ups your speed. Forget the fact that his buster does weak damage on bosses, just rapid-fire them! The game as a whole was decent, but there was some room for improvement.
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Volt Kraken had the best Ride Chaser stage, IMO. Of course, I could just be saying that due to my love of the music for that stage.
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Ride Chaser stages always have awesome music. Man-O-War and Yeti are no exceptions.
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Except Volt Kraken's stage isn't all that Ride Chasery and it is bit of [parasitic bomb] to get through.
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it has a Ride Chaser in it. therefore, it is a Ride Chaser stage.
and it was really annoying at first. i used to never be able to do it on the first try. now after playing it so much, it ain't too bad. i sometimes still trip up, though.
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Volt Kraken had the best Ride Chaser stage, IMO. Of course, I could just be saying that due to my love of the music for that stage.
I love his music. its awesome. then again, X5 had an all around awesome soundtrack.
also, as much as his Ride chaser segment was cool, (I love how the thing rams into the wall at the end and blows the floor up.) it wasnt too long...
I always thought it was bull that the ground "was so damaged only a ride chaser could go through" I mean, what the hell is Gaia Armor for then? XD Plus X and Zero have gone through worse. its just a small electrical hazard is all...
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and it was really annoying at first. i used to never be able to do it on the first try. now after playing it so much, it ain't too bad. i sometimes still trip up, though.
Heh, I never really had a problem with it, myself. I was just inspired by the awesome [tornado fang]ing music!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ03jCAt_ZE[/youtube]
8D
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<3 the Guns N' Roses names
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you're supposed to dash so that you are directly behind Man-O-War at all times.
Thank you, Captain Obvious. I've AAA-ranked and No Damage Cleared every stage (even Yeti's......after many months...... *shudder*), I know how to beat it. I'm just saying I think it's a moronic way to play, that the only valid form of attack is point-blank. Why even bother with a projectile if that's the case? I'd have rather had a good old-fashioned dash-blade.
The fact that dash reserves are dependent on your Special Weapon upgrades may not have been the wisest choice, either.
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<3 the Guns N' Roses names
I seriously cannot see why people hate them so much. I thought they were pretty awesome names. I mean, its a break from the monotone of usual names.
Dark Dizzy sounds MUCH better than Dark Necrobat. And Duf McWhalen? I thik thats a pretty fun name for him. they were good names. they worked out IMO.
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the names suck, but that is why they are awesome. they're Power Glove bad.
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnSQItdHIfM[/youtube]
You know, this might be one of the best MMX tracks ever.
the names suck, but that is why they are awesome. they're Power Glove bad.
Exactly! XD
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I seriously cannot see why people hate them so much. I thought they were pretty awesome names. I mean, its a break from the monotone of usual names.
Because they want serious names instead of joke ones? Like you couldn't work that out on your own. :/
ps megaman games = SERIOUS BUSINESS
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Coming from the game that names its main characters after Music. And then theres X and ZERO, and SIGMA representin' math.
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnSQItdHIfM[/youtube]
You know, this might be one of the best MMX tracks ever.
I loved it the first five times, now i just dont have the energy to listen to it all the way through
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Heh, I don't think I've ever had that problem with music! XD
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What is worst with those horrible MMX5 names is that they already have badass Maverick names already although I like Mattrex, Burn Dinorex sounds a lot more sense and it is more appropiate.
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Heh, I don't think I've ever had that problem with music! XD
You don't get tired of music? Individual tracks, anyway
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i know i can never get tired of some songs. i can only assume PB feels the same. hell, he probably has more tolerance for that than i do.
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnSQItdHIfM[/youtube]
You know, this might be one of the best MMX tracks ever.
[tornado fang]. Yes.
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Jakob, Vile Battle, Sigma Battle, and Lumine 2 Battle were all awesome.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqL27l6OKqw&fmt=18[/youtube]
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Aye, that one rocked all socks.
Of course, with the possible exception of Xtreme1 (suffers MM2GB syndrome), what X-series game DOESN'T have badass music?
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what I liked most about Jakob at first actually, Is that at the beggining it sounds like elevator music.
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You don't get tired of music? Individual tracks, anyway
Honestly, not really. Well, I guess the only time that really happened was with the first Linkin Park album. I heard it once, and thought it wasn't that bad, then I heard it a second time and hated it. I think that's the only case of that every happening with me. It could also be that I have no shame either. I mean, I still listen to everything I use to listen to as a child.
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Jakob, Vile Battle, Sigma Battle, and Lumine 2 Battle were all awesome.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqL27l6OKqw&fmt=18[/youtube]
The GATEWAY Escape music was also great, and I include Central White into all this.
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Strange. Whenever I find a song I like, I must take care not to listen to it too much or it just wears out and becomes yet another song. Usually taking a week to do so.
The really awesome/epic/etc ones may give me goosebumps the first ten times, but after that...
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Honestly, not really. Well, I guess the only time that really happened was with the first Linkin Park album. I heard it once, and thought it wasn't that bad, then I heard it a second time and hated it. I think that's the only case of that every happening with me. It could also be that I have no shame either. I mean, I still listen to everything I use to listen to as a child.
Besides the Linkin Park stuff, you took the words out of my mouth. You're not alone, man.
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Strange. Whenever I find a song I like, I must take care not to listen to it too much or it just wears out and becomes yet another song. Usually taking a week to do so.
The really awesome/epic/etc ones may give me goosebumps the first ten times, but after that...
That's very true.
It keeps being awesome, but loses that flare it used to have. doesnt give goosebumps anymore.
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What is worst with those horrible MMX5 names is that they already have badass Maverick names already although I like Mattrex, Burn Dinorex sounds a lot more sense and it is more appropiate.
I think the guys doing the translation for it were really INTO Guns 'n Roses at the time. I can't remember the reason why exactly, but I thought that was an interesting bit of info.
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Capcom in general has a hardon for GnR.
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Whoa, whoa whoa, whoa, whoa. People don't like the Guns N Roses names in X5?
Oh, & @ the topic itself: X7 had the potential to be a better game than X8 ever could have been. Capcom needs to grow some balls & stop giving up on things so quickly. X7's gameplay just needs a little buffering & it'll be gold. God forbid they try something new.
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Oh, & @ the topic itself: X7 had the potential to be a better game than X8 ever could have been. Capcom needs to grow some balls & stop giving up on things so quickly. X7's gameplay just needs a little buffering & it'll be gold. God forbid they try something new.
X7 did have a lot of potential. Good premise. Terrible execution. I agree, Capcom should be bit more daring with the Mega Man franchise (which is what I liked about ZXA and MM9).
I personally find X8 to be overrated, which is probably a result from the quality drought that is X6 and X7. Although it has some good points, it just isn't anywhere close to being on par with the first 5 games. Not only that, but the game comes off as overly cheesy (especially the awkward Stage intros).
And with X being my favorite character, I was often frustrated by his useless special weapons. Many times, they didn't even work (especially in the air). And the only useful one was probably Drift Diamond and maybe Shadow Runner.
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I'd say that X8 was well beyond X5, X3, and Xtreme1 in the quality department, all of which predate the games you mentioned.
X5 was no quality title, either. It was, like X7, great ideas with bad execution. Not *AS* bad execution, but still. The power-ups were tied together in senseless ways, the ties between power-ups, ranking, and boss level shouldn't have even existed, the game was made considerably more linear with an obvious "intended" order of Grizzly to Red, the Gaia Armor is impossible to obtain reasonably early (you must visit every stage and you must have actually cleared Grizzly Slash, Duff McWhalen, and Izzy Glow), and several tanks are impossible or near-impossible to reach as Zero. It also has quite possibly the single worst boss AI I have ever seen in the versus-Zero battle. And whoever came up with the idea of Zero dying in a boss explosion, which is in of itself wrong enough, but also without regard to how close he actually is to said explosion, needs to be shot.
X6, despite rushed development, fixed quite a few of those flaws. The power-up system was opened up, allowing all hell to break loose on your end, and Nightmare Zero provided a PROPER PS1-era Zero battle (without adding a single sprite, I might add).
X8 simply suffers some presentation issues due to crapass art style and generally lazy visuals inferior to Command Mission. And even if most of X's special weapons were pointless, it did give us some cool stuff. The armor mix-and-match (even if presented lazily) is long-overdue, in and of itself adding a lot of value to the game. We got a lot of stuff back that X7 forgot (multiple armors, secret forms, and such). We got the first-ever secret characters (even if clones, it's still cool). We got the best-ever Ride Armor (INFINITE GROUND DASH AT LAST!!!) and the first-ever Ride Armor theme music, which kicked ass.
quality drought that is X6
*gives Soultrigger ZEE UPPERCUT!!*
Barring Sentsuizan and the annoying Nightmare effects, X6 does not lack quality. It's just challenging in a manner that is untraditional for the franchise. Excellent service to people who know the formula like the back of their hand, I say. The game allowed far more freedom, customization, and power-up potential than any other in the series (up to 16 Life Ups, 8 Energy Ups, and 5 Power-Up Parts all stackable on either character and any armor), and unlike the Zero series, it gives you insane enough enemy mobs to provide an engaging experience even after you've massed all that power (which incidentally you can obtain without the use of a single special weapon; therefore allowing you to earn for yourself the equivalent of the hacked passwords of the SNES days). No other MegaMan title gives you the sense of a large-scale battle that X6 does.
I've often said, X6 is to MegaMan what Lost Levels is to Mario. It's not high production value and it's not newbie-friendly. But it throws the kitchen sink at you and makes a great challenge for people who know the series inside-out.
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X5 was no quality title, either. It was, like X7, great ideas with bad execution. Not *AS* bad execution, but still. The power-ups were tied together in senseless ways, the ties between power-ups, ranking, and boss level shouldn't have even existed, the game was made considerably more linear with an obvious "intended" order of Grizzly to Red, the Gaia Armor is impossible to obtain reasonably early (you must visit every stage and you must have actually cleared Grizzly Slash, Duff McWhalen, and Izzy Glow), and several tanks are impossible or near-impossible to reach as Zero. It also has quite possibly the single worst boss AI I have ever seen in the versus-Zero battle. And whoever came up with the idea of Zero dying in a boss explosion, which is in of itself wrong enough, but also without regard to how close he actually is to said explosion, needs to be shot.
I agree with you that X5 was poorly laid out and had some questionable plot elements (such as the climactic battle between X and Zero being caused simply by mistrust?). Whether or not it's better than X8 is up to whoever, but I prefer 2D over 3D, so I'm probably bias either way.
X8 simply suffers some presentation issues due to crapass art style and generally lazy visuals inferior to Command Mission. And even if most of X's special weapons were pointless, it did give us some cool stuff. The armor mix-and-match (even if presented lazily) is long-overdue, in and of itself adding a lot of value to the game. We got a lot of stuff back that X7 forgot (multiple armors, secret forms, and such). We got the first-ever secret characters (even if clones, it's still cool). We got the best-ever Ride Armor (INFINITE GROUND DASH AT LAST!!!) and the first-ever Ride Armor theme music, which kicked ass.
Despite all the pros you listed, I found the core gameplay to be lacking (stage layouts, enemies, etc.). X8 certainly had interesting gimmicks, but they were a bit overdone in my opinion.
I also really hate what they did with a lot of the bosses. Really? Flaming Cock? Sunflower? Vile standing on the Ride Armor???
I've often said, X6 is to MegaMan what Lost Levels is to Mario. It's not high production value and it's not newbie-friendly. But it throws the kitchen sink at you and makes a great challenge for people who know the series inside-out.
Great challenge doesn't excuse poor designs. If you can't beat every stage with unarmored X, then why bother making unarmored X an option? Going out of tradition and deceiving the player by making them think they can play any stage with X is wrong. Also, many of X's weapons downright sucked, with only Yammark Option and Magma Blade as somewhat useful. And I don't think I need to discuss Zero's revival, Isoc adding useless plot holes, and Sigma being totally brain dead when he's a virus.
I did, however, liked what they did with Zero's gameplay to a certain degree. The different air slashes were a nice touch, and the "stiff" saber gave a fresh, new look.
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Flaming Cock?
You'll probably be surprised to find out there's no boss by that name.
Vile standing on the Ride Armor???
One of his best moments.
deceiving the player by making them think they can play any stage with X is wrong.
You can play any stage as unarmored X.
In b4 legends2 overkill weapon.
I need to discuss Zero's revival, Isoc adding useless plot holes,
Zero's revival is completely warranted and Isoc solves more plotholes than any other character in the entire series.
That is, if you paid attentionTM.
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Hmm. How does Vile control his ride armor if hes standing on it exactly?
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Remotely. Or through thought. Or preprogrammed AI.
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If you can't beat every stage with unarmored X, then why bother making unarmored X an option?
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd272/Solblade44/You%20Fail/fail-i-told-you.jpg)
First of all, yes you can.
Second, Unarmored is not the game's default form, Falcon is. Unarmored exists for the sheer challenge of it. One which by your own admission you can't handle.
This is what I mean when I say that X6 makes you use your head. I cannot turn around without running into somebody who thinks such-and-such a stage unarmored is impossible. IT ISN'T. No level whatsoever is. The core level design of X6 (disregarding the Nightmare effects) is rather ingenious, and humbles many a so-called fan. They [sonic slicer] and moan about how broken it allegedly is because they can't deal with the fact that they're not up to the task. Try harder, and stop sucking.
And I don't think I need to discuss Zero's revival
His revival is no worse than X's. Both were left for dead, both were repaired by their makers. The only difference is that X's revival was shown on-screen in the same game he was killed, and Zero's wasn't.Isoc adding useless plot holes
Which are?and Sigma being totally brain dead when he's a virus.
Sigma was killed 3 weeks ago and has not had time to properly recover. What about that is difficult to understand?
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or like, with his one foot...his one foot is in the control area right? XD
Seriously tho, there were other RideArmors in X8 that functioned on their own so...
At the music of X8...Why doesn't anybody mention Lumine's 1st battle or the music played in the cutscenes (betrayal and oncoming generation) those are the real jewels in X8's OST, VS.Lumine 1 makes GodAlbert's battle theme a pathetic joke.
But it throws the kitchen sink at you
They [sonic slicer] and moan about how broken it allegedly is because they can't deal with the fact that they're not up to the task
awesome XD
also, that there be the damn truth, I was once someone that called X6 broken (and not the good kind of broken like OIS), until I stopped sucking and started appreciating...it's also the ONLY MM game that makes for a challenge on Normal mode.
-Elpis
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How did Isoc add useless plotholes? He was pretty plainly Wily, & it was nice to see Wily get in on a game before he disappeared from Capcom's memory entirely.
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And with X being my favorite character, I was often frustrated by his useless special weapons. Many times, they didn't even work (especially in the air). And the only useful one was probably Drift Diamond and maybe Shadow Runner.
Shadow Runner was horrible, as half the time the thing simply orbits around X. Thunder Dancer is pretty nice, though, particularly in places with multiple enemies. Squeeze Bomb actually has some nice properties as well, mainly the fact that it absorbs enemy fire. Try it on Copy Sigma, it makes your life that much easier.
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Sigma was killed 3 weeks ago and has not had time to properly recover. What about that is difficult to understand?
Plus the fact that his body was not finished, largely, and his mind was fragmented at best, as Hypershell said, from not having a proper recovery, and being pulled out of pure ultimate death. In an incomplete body. And was hastily awakened by Gate upon his defeat.
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Yet he somehow manages to still have an extra gigantic scary body. Seriously, Terminator Sigma was the most terrifying Sigma yet. It blew multiple solid colored heads Sigma out of the water.
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Plus the fact that his body was not finished, largely, and his mind was fragmented at best, as Hypershell said, from not having a proper recovery, and being pulled out of pure ultimate death. In an incomplete body. And was hastily awakened by Gate upon his defeat.
Makes me wonder if X9 (If it ever comes to fruition) will use some sort of asspulling to bring Sigma back again.
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How about Sigma's bones are scattered all over the world for some reason, so you have to collect all the bones, so you can resurrect Sigma, so you can kill him again. Does that sound like a good game story plan?
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What bones?
Also, lol ripping off other games.
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Maybe he made a backup of his mind.
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How about Sigma's bones are scattered all over the world for some reason, so you have to collect all the bones, so you can resurrect Sigma, so you can kill him again. Does that sound like a good game story plan?
Weapon orbs a la Mega Man 1 have returned, and you have to throw a knife at the robot masters' them, but the game tells you this nowhere.
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Atleast you don´t have to kneel down in front of a waterfall....
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I still think requiring parts for unarmoured X runs in X6 is stupid. Not undoable, or difficult to figure out, but just flat out annoying that you can't finish everywhere in the game vanilla. They could have easily done it in one way or the other so that you could get by vanilla (ie. no parts equipped) if you thought it out hard enough, but that isn't the case. That's my only gripe with X6, really. In 100% runs it really is enjoyable. Certainly more so than X5 in it's entirety, at any rate.
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My main gripe with X6 so far is Metal Shark Player's stage. Damn ceiling.
Also, what plot holes did Issoc introduce? Did his very existence invalidate something? Because I never saw any.
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After you've played it enough, Player's stage isn't hard at all.
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I still think requiring parts for unarmoured X runs in X6 is stupid. Not undoable, or difficult to figure out, but just flat out annoying that you can't finish everywhere in the game vanilla.
Then X1 is annoying too, because you're forced to pick up those boot attachments before you're done!
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And a Buster upgrade.
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Oh gee whiz. Why didn't they let you hop over all that?
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Yeah, you're forced to take the upgrades... but you're never forced to use them. In X6, you're not forced to take them, but you sure as hell need them in certain spots.
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Atleast you don´t have to kneel down in front of a waterfall....
Oh you do. X remembered his knees again.
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In X6, you're not forced to take them, but you sure as hell need them in certain spots.
Like the Magnet Beam.
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Haha, nice mate there.
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Indeed.
To add to that, in any other MegaMan game there's the advantage of no fewer than 8 upgrades being unavoidable; try beating MM1 without Super Arm. Or 8 without Thunder Claw. Or MM&B without Ice Wall. In X6, NOTHING is absolutely required. There are always multiple solutions and never is one single item necessary, but absolutely nothing in the game short of Falcon Armor is unavoidable either. You know what we call that? Open. Some people just can't handle it.
but you're never forced to use them.
When were we given the option to cap our charge level? 'cuz I missed that part.
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Indeed.
To add to that, in any other MegaMan game there's the advantage of no fewer than 8 upgrades being unavoidable; try beating MM1 without Super Arm. Or 8 without Thunder Claw. Or MM&B without Ice Wall. In X6, NOTHING is required. Literally. There are always multiple solutions and never is one single item necessary, but absolutely nothing in the game short of Falcon Armor is unavoidable either. You know what we call that? Open. Some people just can't handle it.
When were we given the option to cap our charge level? 'cuz I missed that.
I was talking about the X series exclusively, where one doesn't really need the use of any upgrade to advance normally, except for X6. While it's true that you don't need the use of any one single item exclusively, the fact is that you still need one. Or two, in some cases. I have no issue with the open gameplay... but it isn't perfect. I still think you shouldn't have the need of any part whatsoever. If it were as open as you say, then there would be the option of no upgrades whatsoever.
As for the charging in X1, it's called shooting before it hits the last charge point, which isn't too difficult. Leads to some less than intuitive moments at times (I tend to like having my charge ready at all times), but it is doable.
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try beating MM1 without Super Arm.
Visit Elec Man's stage again, use Thunder Beam on the blocks to the Magnet Beam. Use buster on CWU-01P. ^^
What you mean is, without visiting a stage two times. You should be more specific next time. >v<
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BURN!!!
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MM&B without Ice Wall.
have you even play R&F?
you can get through every section that would need ice wall with forte >.>
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Honestly, who plays with Megaman in that game unless they want to get 100% on the disks?
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I do. His regain health while standing still ability makes him good for folding GBAs on the go. Or one can play the game in not retarded easy mode with Bass. Love him though I do, he's a bit overpowered. Fun, but not for as long as Mega Man, at least, until you can be as proficient with both. My days of not raping the bullshit out of MM&B are long since past.
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Visit Elec Man's stage again, use Thunder Beam on the blocks to the Magnet Beam. Use buster on CWU-01P. ^^
What you mean is, without visiting a stage two times. You should be more specific next time. >v<
Haha, I discussed this on Confuse Reviews (http://www.confusereviews.com/?p=5270) just last night too.
Then again, you could also get the Magnet Beam without using any weapons if you can do the Up+Down trick to zip into the wall!
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I do. His regain health while standing still ability makes him good for folding GBAs on the go. Or one can play the game in not retarded easy mode with Bass. Love him though I do, he's a bit overpowered. Fun, but not for as long as Mega Man, at least, until you can be as proficient with both. My days of not raping the bullshit out of MM&B are long since past.
Actually its more like they specifically made the game for bass, then remembered it was a classic Megaman game, and threw Megaman in, giving him just enough obtainable items that he can complete the game, but not really caring that its so [tornado fang]ing annoying.
Bass is good for stages, But Megaman is better with the bosses because he can fire charged shots.
Go figure.
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Plus Meggy can collect all the CDs on his own (http://tasvideos.org/1036M.html)!
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Bass is good for stages, But Megaman is better with the bosses because he can fire charged shots.
Go figure.
Bass can be fun to play in stages, but bosses are pretty much a nightmare until you get that power-up part. Megaman's more fun to play overall, especially considering the fact that he gets a few bonuses Bass doesn't, like Eddie and Beat support. Auto-Recover is pretty much win, and he also has that danger item that makes him stronger when his health is low IIRC.
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I'm pretty sure auto-recover and danger stuff is available to both characters.
Besides MegaMan having more support and charged shots, he also has an easier time against King's tank. Bass totally pjwnz the first Wily Machine with Treble Boost, though.
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I'm pretty sure auto-recover and danger stuff is available to both characters.
Besides MegaMan having more support and charged shots, he also has an easier time against King's tank. Bass totally pjwnz the first Wily Machine with Treble Boost, though.
I just checked, and the danger item is available to both characters. Auto-heal is MM exclusive, though.
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Besides MegaMan having more support and charged shots, he also has an easier time against King's tank.
Uh, Bass is quite fine & easy.
Bass totally pjwnz the first Wily Machine with Treble Boost, though.
Or by himself.
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But why take away Bass's charge shots at all? It would have been awesome if he had at least have the attacks from Mega Man 8 or Mega Man 7.
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Why is his body bigger than in 8 but his wings in hyper form are smaller?
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But why take away Bass's charge shots at all? It would have been awesome if he had at least have the attacks from Mega Man 8 or Mega Man 7.
Same reason everybody gets changed. Diversity. Or do you think Zero should always have had his buster?
Why is his body bigger than in 8 but his wings in hyper form are smaller?
Style. I love the Bass sprites in MM&B. I love how his feet flop especially.
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Uh, Bass is quite fine & easy.
I never said otherwise. But people keep saying that Bass has it easy and Rock has jack, and that's not true, thus my post.
Same reason everybody gets changed. Diversity. Or do you think Zero should always have had his buster?
After X6, hell yes I do.
Having something doesn't necessarily mean focusing on it, nor does it mean you can't spin it a different way. Bass's attacks are still buster attacks, after all, doesn't make him the same as Rock.
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I apologized for diverting away from the R&F discussion, but anyways...
You'll probably be surprised to find out there's no boss by that name.
You know who I mean. >_> My point is is that there are better options out there than a rooster. This is all opinionated of course, so I don't need to hear any defense.
Zero's revival is completely warranted and Isoc solves more plotholes than any other character in the entire series.
I'm sure if X6 was initially intended, they wouldn't have killed Zero a second time only to revive him in the next installment. I'm well aware of the fact the Zero series fixed this.
Everyone assumes a connection between Wily and Isoc (and I admit, I do too). But they never explicitly explained his background in the game, which only causes confusion. Unless you can direct me to some official source clearly explaining Isoc, everything is still murky for me.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd272/Solblade44/You%20Fail/fail-i-told-you.jpg)
First of all, yes you can.
Second, Unarmored is not the game's default form, Falcon is. Unarmored exists for the sheer challenge of it. One which by your own admission you can't handle.
This is what I mean when I say that X6 makes you use your head. I cannot turn around without running into somebody who thinks such-and-such a stage unarmored is impossible. IT ISN'T. No level whatsoever is. The core level design of X6 (disregarding the Nightmare effects) is rather ingenious, and humbles many a so-called fan. They [sonic slicer] and moan about how broken it allegedly is because they can't deal with the fact that they're not up to the task. Try harder, and stop sucking.
His revival is no worse than X's. Both were left for dead, both were repaired by their makers. The only difference is that X's revival was shown on-screen in the same game he was killed, and Zero's wasn't.Which are?Sigma was killed 3 weeks ago and has not had time to properly recover. What about that is difficult to understand?
Wow, your defense of X6 seems blinded by your bias. And stop trying to sound like an elitist, assuming everyone who's attempted X6 pussied out on it. I'm no speed-runner, and I certainly don't care for no-damage runs (sans Zero series), but that doesn't mean I suck at the game or don't know what I'm hell I'm talking about.
Yes, you can clear any X6 stage with unarmored X. <b>With parts</b>. Are you so bent on nitpicking my arguments that you're not realizing my point? Sorry I'm unclear, but my point is that X6 is lacking the polish most of the other games have in which you're not <b>required</b> to use missable/skippable items.
Does this make X6 a bad game? Fine, it makes X6 different from the rest. Sure, you need some creativity to clear the game. But is this exactly fair for players and fans who come into the game expecting it to be like the first 5 only to find they can't beat the second/third Gate stage as X without some form of air dash or "mobility" part? I know I was frustrated, going into the stage as <i>Shadow X</i> without the proper parts. At least in the first Gate stage, they were nice enough to put the threshold at the beginning of the stage. The truth is that, as X, you'll always need SOME form of upgrade to beat the Gate stages.
Bear in mind that X6 is one of the first games in the series that lets you skip a significant portion of the game. In X5, AFAIK you weren't required to have any upgrade to complete the game. Start the game as Zero? Skipped to the failed laser and shuttle cutscenes? You can still go through the Sigma Stages with X. Is it absurdly hard? Yes. But is it possible? Yes. No stage is impossible because you didn't have something beforehand.
As a rebuttal, you could say that developers SHOULD be allowed to require power ups (such as the first Gate stage). But can you really defend developers wasting the players time without any form of warning beforehand?
Indeed, Falcon Armor is considered the default in X6. But that still didn't change the fact that I was forced to game over myself and restart the stage completely. It's like in MM3 where you could get stuck in the Doc Robot stages if you were stupid enough to run out of Rush weapon energy [not including the P2 glitch]. Highly unlikely, but the fact that you CAN get stuck shows that the game was unrefined to some degree.
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I'm sure if X6 was initially intended, they wouldn't have killed Zero a second time only to revive him in the next installment. I'm well aware of the fact the Zero series fixed this.
Everyone assumes a connection between Wily and Isoc (and I admit, I do too). But they never explicitly explained his background in the game, which only causes confusion. Unless you can direct me to some official source clearly explaining Isoc, everything is still murky for me.
Zero was always intended to be revived again, even if it was in the ZERO series instead of the X-series. Zero died in the very place Wily himself was omnipresent, the same place where Dr. Right took material form and saved X from a similar fate, the same place where Zero's body mysteriously vanished to leave nothing but the Z-saber behind.
Zero: In the short time I’ve been away, people think so much less of me they associate me with a toy like this…
X: …Zero? Zero, you’re alive?
Zero: [sighs] So are you, X, aren’t you?
To begin with, we’re not going to let the likes of Sigma do us in… am I right?
X: I searched… but I couldn’t find anything… no data response… no parts… so…
Zero: Sorry to cause you worry. I lay low until I was fully recovered from the damage.
Zero later revealed to Right, he asked who saved him and admitted that when he woke up he could. Zero's benefactor is a mystery to him.
Then Isoc goes about exclaiming he's "seen" Zero, and that Zero did not die from such a "trivial battle." Obsessed about Zero, he laughs to see him succeed where X failed, he goes into fits of rage to see X succeed at the same thing. That very Isoc raised his hand at Zero and told him that when it comes to him, he more than anyone... And with that, Zero is trapped within a force field that even protects him from external damage so that nobody could take advantage of Zero in this state. Isoc told him he can capture the likes of him at anytime.
How can Isoc, see him alive? How can Isoc stop him in his tracks? The only explanation is that Isoc himself had a hand in his revival. Likewise, we've already established from X5 that Wily is likely to take action against Zero's death.
Then we have the bloody sourcebooks listing Isoc as "a mystery". Perhaps likening to Wily (as with Sagesse.) Not to mention this guy having the exact same voice actor and mannerism of Wily from the exact same series. Even if you don't factually accept Isoc as Wily, it's clear that the two are related in the manner of Zero's revival.
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I like when Isoc says he knows Zero inside and out.
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Zero was always intended to be revived again, even if it was in the ZERO series instead of the X-series. Zero died in the very place Wily himself was omnipresent, the same place where Dr. Right took material form and saved X from a similar fate, the same place where Zero's body mysteriously vanished to leave nothing but the Z-saber behind.
This could've gone any number of ways other than what X6 established though..
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Granted, some of the level design in X8 was a bit odd. Just being experimental, largely. Not all of those experiments produced good results, but none of those stages are really "annoying" in the way some stages from previous games were.
Indeed, some of the items are way too expensive. But then there's that glitch, so no problem.
Although flying Zero is a much more fun glitch to abuse. :D
You also get awesome music and voice acting that doesn't suck (for the most part, anyway)!
Though, the one thing that's unique to X8 that I really liked and doesn't get enough appreciation is the way the tag team system works. Characters can recover some damage when not in use. If your character dies, the other one comes in to take their place and, and the dead character can recover. And then there's the double attack.
Point being, the whole is very much greater than the sum of its parts. You know, as a team should be. That was hands down the game's best innovation.
X7... yeah, it had potential, but it was poorly implemented. They only give you the ability to move the camera in full 3D areas and an awful lot of the camera angles they give you in the semi-3D sections really don't work very well. Prime example: the second part of the Palace Road stage would be a hell of a lot easier if you could see where the [tornado fang] you're going. But instead, you're running towards the screen. -AC (as an aside, why isn't there a checkpoint before the boss fight in that stage?)
The other major annoyance was those attacks which knock you down. Recoil from strong attacks is one thing, that's to be expected. Being made to fall on your ass and lose total control of the character for several seconds so you have no chance to take advantage of your temporary invulnerability is another entirely. Especially when you consider how often that excessive recoil knocks you onto spikes and into pits.
The rescuable reploids feature had the same problem it did in X6 where if you let one die, they're gone, although in one way it's worse and in another it's better. It's worse in the sense that they die a hell of a lot more easily. It's better in the sense that even once they're dead, they're not completely gone forever because they'll be back in New Game+.
And on that note, that's another thing I really don't like: not being able to fully power everyone up in a single playthrough.
Still, that's an improvement over X5, X6, and Soul Eraser where fully powering up both characters on a single file is impossible no matter what. Which, besides being irksome (yeah, I'm a completionist, so sue me), breeds a tendency to just use one character, give them everything, and kick the other to the curb. I'd probably use Zero a lot more in X5 and X6 if giving him powerups didn't mean not giving them to X.
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I'm sure if X6 was initially intended, they wouldn't have killed Zero a second time only to revive him in the next installment. I'm well aware of the fact the Zero series fixed this.
I'll again reiterate that X is as dead as Zero in X5. I'm not sure by what logic it is assumed that only X's creator would take measures to ensure his survival when we know as stated fact that Zero's creator was already involved in the virus-colony plot.
Wow, your defense of X6 seems blinded by your bias.
A bias towards what? What bias of mine does X6 serve?
Or are you simply saying that I'm defending X6 because I'm biased towards X6 itself? Because besides being ignorant of my own concessions as to the game's flaws (Sentsuizan, Nightmare System, and my personal annoyance with garbage compressors), that's really just an argumentative way of saying that I have a personal opinion.
I'm no speed-runner, and I certainly don't care for no-damage runs
You're preaching to the choir. Who's making assumptions about who now? Outside of Metroid games the only time I've ever come close to speed-running is MM9. And if you think I give a damn about no-damage runs (outside of X8, for that nifty note in the Records screen), you know nothing about my play style.
or don't know what I'm hell I'm talking about.
You don't if you claim that X6 is unclearable as unarmored X. That is not an elitist attitude, it is fact.
If you're going to attach minimalist run strings to that statement, you need to say so. And that's an argument I've already been over. Long story short: Part of a minimalist run is determining what the minimum requirements actually are. If you can't do that then you have no business attempting it. The same as no reasonably intelligent individual should be conceding their default equipment in any game without first thinking about the consequences. You speak as if the casual player will be attempting the game unarmored and there is really no reason they should be doing so.
Sorry I'm unclear, but my point is that X6 is lacking the polish most of the other games have in which you're not <b>required</b> to use missable/skippable items.
I realize that full well. Let me be equally clear. No other game, sans X5, makes every item in the game skippable. There are bound to be concessions, which even as you yourself stated encourage creativity. Thus by your own admission we are talking about a differing style, which is not a flaw. Neither is less valid than the other.
But is this exactly fair for players and fans who come into the game expecting it to be like the first 5
5 was nothing like the first 4. Not to mention I fail to see how unexpected cross-game differences are unfair. Every title is to be judged on its own merits; MegaMan games are actually unusual in how similar they are. That still doesn't mean that knowledge of previous titles is a free pass to future titles.
I was forced to game over myself
...because your Select button was dead?
Highly unlikely, but the fact that you CAN get stuck shows that the game was unrefined to some degree.
I believe we already tackled this with MM1 and MM8. MM3's incidents are insignificant by comparison as they involve draining multiple weapon bars (you have to be out of both Jet and Coil to get stuck in Doc Robot's Gemini Man) for no particular reason, as they have nowhere near enough realistic use outside of those obstacles to expect such.
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And 4 and 5 were nothing like each other or X6.
1-3 are comparable to each other, though, and far superior.
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I think 4 is even comparable to 1-3, barring the inclusion of a close-range character. Up until that point it was still 8 weapons, 8 Life Ups, 4 Tanks, and a single armor, the end. At X5 they started some major (poorly executed) expansions to the formula in regards to what kind of arsenal you're gathering. Every game since has had its own take on those expansions. But outside of different visuals and physics, the general build of X4 is very much in line with the SNES titles. Arguably you could even consider it a more conservative title than X3 in terms of how close it stays to the core series formula.
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X4 was made in the same style, so to speak, as X1-3. it was the same style. X5 then expanded the universe.
though to correct you, the main difference was that there were only 2 sub tanks, to make room for the third one, which was the newly introduced Weapon subtank.
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I said 4 tanks, didn't specify what type.
And X4 actually does have 4. 2 Energy, 1 Weapon, 1 EX (the doohicky that lets you start with 4 lives instead of 2).
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I think 4 is even comparable to 1-3, barring the inclusion of a close-range character. Up until that point it was still 8 weapons, 8 Life Ups, 4 Tanks, and a single armor, the end. At X5 they started some major (poorly executed) expansions to the formula in regards to what kind of arsenal you're gathering. Every game since has had its own take on those expansions. But outside of different visuals and physics, the general build of X4 is very much in line with the SNES titles. Arguably you could even consider it a more conservative title than X3 in terms of how close it stays to the core series formula.
I'll take X5's arsenal over X2's, anyday.
And, like MM7, X4 messed with X's size-to-stage and enemy attack size, not to mention being more open-bottom and 'winding' (see: Frost Walrus' stage).
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Frost Walrus' stage was great.
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X4 was made in the same style, so to speak, as X1-3. it was the same style. X5 then expanded the universe.
Is "expanded the universe" the new term for "jumped the shark"?
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It's a neutral term, Bag, could be good or bad. Most associate a bad expansion with jumping the shark, yeah.
X5 wasn't wrong to expand the formula, but it implemented those expansions horribly. X6, Xtreme2, and X8 did an undeniably better job. I'd dare say that even X7 did, it just failed in the physics and level design departments.
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Frost Walrus' stage was great.
That top part at the beginning is Chill Penguin-fun.
That part after the EX Tank is annoyingly twisty-turvy.
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The only thing about X4 that I didn't care for was the soundtrack. I honestly think it's one of the weakest in the X series.
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The only thing about X4 that I didn't care for was the soundtrack. I honestly think it's one of the weakest in the X series.
The only good things about X6:
Blaze Heatnix's BGM and Final Sigma theme.
X4's soundtrack ventured into techno and ambient waaaay too much. Some generic orchestra, but that's it.
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The only thing about X4 that I didn't care for was the soundtrack. I honestly think it's one of the weakest in the X series.
wuuuuut I thought it was one of the best. X Zero Double and Sigma had the best themes ever. and the music matched the stage. Slash beats music really felt like train music. and Iris theme was sad. I didnt care much for the Colonel/General theme, but It grew on me.
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X4's soundtrack was just way too high pitched for my own tastes, especially compared to the SNES soundtracks. Both X & Zero's opening themes are not even close to being as awesome as their opening themes from the SNES X games.
Don't get me wrong. I do like the X4 soundtrack. But compared to the other X series games, I think it's one of the weakest.
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Well thats what Opinions are, lol. each to their own. personally there has never been a Megaman/Megaman X soundtrack I didnt like. just like Sega, not matter the game, they always make awesome soundtracks. except X8. I didnt like it too much. it had a few good ones, but nothing memorable. it overemphasized the electric guitar too.
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Zero's X4 theme would have been the best if it were tweaked to be a little deeper, sound more like a boss theme.
Y'know, Wily-created and all.
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Agreed, to each his own. X8 had a few flaws to it's stage songs, but overall I thought it was a fantastic soundtrack. Hell, I think Jacob is one of Capcom's crowning achievements in terms of stage music.
See, there's another problem I had with X4's music too; the Final Stages. They. Are. So. Bland.
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And to make things worse, X5's catchiest tune was DISCO DANCE SIGMA STAGE.
D. I. S. C. O.
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Oh, I love X5's soundtrack. Especially RAVE Zero Stage 2.
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I don't think that, barring Xtreme1, there is such a thing as an X-series game with a bad soundtrack. However, much as I liked X8's I do have to admit that variety was not its strong point. Almost the entire game outside of Lumine uses the same style and instruments.
That said, loved the Boss, Ride Armor, Intermission, and many others.
The only good things about X6:
Blaze Heatnix's BGM and Final Sigma theme.
*ZEE UPPERCUT!!*
You forgot Gate's Lab.
X4's soundtrack was just way too high pitched for my own tastes, especially compared to the SNES soundtracks. Both X & Zero's opening themes are not even close to being as awesome as their opening themes from the SNES X games.
I resent that. X's X4 theme is among the best, with only Command Mission and X2 being in the same league. Zero's is pretty solid as well. Beats the hell out of X3's. >U<
See, there's another problem I had with X4's music too; the Final Stages. They. Are. So. Bland.
Not as bad as Zero Virus stages.
Between that, X, and positively horrendous standard boss theme, it's very tempting for me to dismiss X5 as the worst main-series soundtrack. But it has a lot of redeeming points. Awesome Sigma, Zero, and special boss themes, and two SNES remixes. "First half" of the stage themes (though I detest the fact that I can describe X5's stages that way) is all-around good, too.
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Gate's Stages...can't remember...
(X2 themes)
OH. Well, yeah. Of course they're going to rock when they've got SNES composition.
[spoiler]Gravity Beetle: Now playing in a head near you![/spoiler]
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I resent that. X's X4 theme is among the best, with only Command Mission and X2 being in the same league. Zero's is pretty solid as well. Beats the hell out of X3's. >U<
X4's X theme isn't terrible. I'm not saying it is. However, it takes a whole 29 seconds for it to get to the good part of the song. The beginning 30 seconds sounds like a high pitched kid whining. After that, it's pretty good. But the SNES series tracks start off [tornado fang]ing awesome, and continue that way.
And I like X4 Zero's theme, but I agree with what Aido said earlier above about if it were deeper, it would've been better. LoL, and it doesn't even come close to being better than X3's, the best Zero theme there is.
Not as bad as Zero Virus stages.
Between that, X, and positively horrendous standard boss theme, it's very tempting for me to dismiss X5 as the worst main-series soundtrack. But it has a lot of redeeming points. Awesome Sigma, Zero, and special boss themes, and two SNES remixes. "First half" of the stage themes (though I detest the fact that I can describe X5's stages that way) is all-around good, too.
A lot worse than Zero Virus stages. Even though Zero Stage 1 is pretty bland in itself, it still sets the mood a lot better than the X4 Final Stages. LoL, and there is NOTHING bland about RAVE ZERO STAGE 2 music.
Regarding X5's Boss Theme, that I can totally understand people not liking, even though it's one of my personal all time favorites, due to the bizarre nature to it. However, X4 had one of the worst boss themes in the X series, IMO.
And again, I'm not saying I don't like X4's Soundtrack. I like a lot of the stage music. IMO, it's one of my least favorite.
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Even though Zero Stage 1 is pretty bland in itself, it still sets the mood a lot better than the X4 Final Stages.
The problem is that ship already sailed because they re-used it as the second Stage Select theme, and for the Zero Virus reveal cutscene. The tune is repetitive enough in itself, so I really feel that was uncalled for. Nor do I feel the extra bit for stage BGM contributed any to the atmosphere.
LoL, and there is NOTHING bland about RAVE ZERO STAGE 2 music.
Call me nitpicky, but I don't consider that Zero Virus music. I consider that Sigma music. 8D
However, X4 had one of the worst boss themes in the X series, IMO.
My personal opinion, so far as generic boss themes go:
X8 (first part)>X1>X7>X6>X4>X3>X2>X8 (second part)>X5
X5's is just entirely too screechy, not to mention slow, for me to consider it good fight music. If it was the villain making a speech, maybe... But it just doesn't get me in the mood to blow anything up, other than my speakers if the fight lasts too long (which unfortunately happens easily in X5 on Xtreme mode).
As for Zero, the "needs to be deeper" shpiel is what I think of X3's. Pretty much every other Zero theme we've ever heard IS deeper, so X3's comes off as unfitting to me. Heroic, sure, but it just sounds like it should belong to a different character. Darkesword's Beamsaber Beat helped me warm up to it a little better, but I still think that most any other Zero theme is superior (granted I also don't think that's saying a lot as pretty much every Zero theme kicks ass).
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I'll do it.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP1TkBr5OSY&fmt=18[/youtube]
Somebody had to do it.
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And to make things worse, X5's catchiest tune was DISCO DANCE SIGMA STAGE.
D. I. S. C. O.
what's wrong with disco?
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what's wrong with disco?
The idea that it would beat any form of RAWK!
I happily admit defeat this time, though.
Besides, RAWK is still in that song, just kinda kickin' it backline.
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The problem is that ship already sailed because they re-used it as the second Stage Select theme, and for the Zero Virus reveal cutscene. The tune is repetitive enough in itself, so I really feel that was uncalled for. Nor do I feel the extra bit for stage BGM contributed any to the atmosphere.
Oh, I'm not fully defending the Zero Stage 1 song. I agree with you on that part. Even so, the Final Stage music for X4 does absolutely nothing for me. Especially if you compare it to the SNES tracks, Gate's Theme, Jacob, RAVE ZERO STAGE 2, and so on!
Call me nitpicky, but I don't consider that Zero Virus music. I consider that Sigma music. 8D
Hey, it says ZERO STAGE 2 on my X1-X6 Collection Soundtrack, so that's what I call it! 8D
My personal opinion, so far as generic boss themes go:
X8 (first part)>X1>X7>X6>X4>X3>X2>X8 (second part)>X5
X5's is just entirely too screechy for me to consider it good fight music. If it was the villain making a speech, maybe...
Wow. You rate X3's boss theme a LOT higher than I do, as I think it's the worst...in possibly all of MM. It goes absolutely nowhere. And as I said, I can fully understand why people don't like X5's boss theme. I just love the technological bizarre-ness of it.
As for Zero, the "needs to be deeper" shpiel is what I think of X3's. Pretty much every other Zero theme we've ever heard IS deeper, so X3's comes off as unfitting to me. Heroic, sure, but it just sounds like it should belong to a different character. Darkesword's Beamsaber Beat helped me warm up to it a little better, but I still think that most any other Zero theme is superior (granted I also don't think that's saying a lot as pretty much every Zero theme kicks ass).
I think X3's is the best because of the heroism behind it, plus it's fantastic intro and great drum & guitar work throughout it. It the same reason I like X1's a lot (both the Heroic intro & the soft "One day you'll be as powerful as me" arrogant theme), along with X4's. X5's Opening Zero theme sounds like they were going for a whole "mysterious" type vibe to it, which works for the game, but overall not one of my favorites. And again, X2's is fantastic, but it just sounds way too boss battle-ish, and it doesn't even last that long. It's done in 15 seconds before the loop starts up again. LoL, but you and I have been over this in many a topic, and it's clear we're getting nowhere! XD
I'll do it.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP1TkBr5OSY&fmt=18[/youtube]
Somebody had to do it.
I'm thinking of making a video of me dancing to this! XD
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I'm just shakin' it; workin' on dishes.
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[tornado fang] yeah Disco Sigma. Actually, He looks like some kind of Disco reject in X5. with that all white outfit of his and his cape of flashy purpleness.
also, X4 final music was really something for sure. FEAR TEH ORGANY MUSIC AND GRIM REAPER SIGMA!
Posted on: September 26, 2009, 01:10:57 AM
You cannot deny the epicness of Jet Stingray's stage.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCic3Or2gQs[/youtube]
Also, X4 did have one thing for it, and its this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGZht8LDzJM
The only intro boss in the X series along with the X7 scorpion, that has his own music.
al the others either use fortress boss music, or boss music.
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I don't think that, barring Xtreme1, there is such a thing as an X-series game with a bad soundtrack.
And Xtreme's soundtrack is okay as long as you aren't actually playing and thus not ruining the music with interruptions from sound effects!
You rate X3's boss theme a LOT higher than I do, as I think it's the worst...in possibly all of MM. It goes absolutely nowhere.
It doesn't have to, it's a boss theme! It should be the same rockin' poundin' melody over and over, to match you getting pounded by the boss over and over.
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It doesn't have to, it's a boss theme! It should be the same rockin' poundin' melody over and over, to match you getting pounded by the boss over and over.
Except for the fact that X3's bosses are the stupidest of the bunch >_>'
X1 has my favourite soundtrack of the series, closely followed by X2's (Counter Hunter Stage 1 greatly attributes to this). X3... I like the two Intro Stage themes (I guess you could consider them X and Zero's themes), but the same can't be said for the rest of the game. Well, aside from Gravity Beetle's stage.
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But X3 was overall the most metal, right?
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The only good things about X6:
Blaze Heatnix's BGM and Final Sigma theme.
Opening stage (overseas version), Yammark stage, Shieldner Sheldon stage, INFINITY MIJINION stage, every single boss theme.
The terribleness of Ground Scaravich almost makes up for all that though.
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I'll again reiterate that X is as dead as Zero in X5. I'm not sure by what logic it is assumed that only X's creator would take measures to ensure his survival when we know as stated fact that Zero's creator was already involved in the virus-colony plot.
I don't get it either, but it's the same logic that without raising questions can make a body completely vanish despite the weapon on its back still being completely intact and left behind in the place of the incident.
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Well, in-game characters are often morons for reasons of plot development.
LoL, but you and I have been over this in many a topic, and it's clear we're getting nowhere! XD
Hey, we're reminding ourselves of kickass music, that's ALWAYS getting somewhere. 8)
Hey, it says ZERO STAGE 2 on my X1-X6 Collection Soundtrack, so that's what I call it! 8D
Yeah, and Brawl refers to Crystal Flash as Power Suit Samus. >U<
Although in all fairness I didn't take that close a look at the X1-6 track list (I do have it lying around somewhere), so that was a good point.
You rate X3's boss theme a LOT higher than I do, as I think it's the worst...in possibly all of MM.
Well, that's what I think of X5's.
But, as said by others, I don't think a boss theme necessarily needs to go anywhere. X3's is repetitive, and that's why I kicked it down lower (I hate X8's second part, too, so X2 is the only "dignified" theme that X3's outclasses in my book), but it is hard-rocking enough that it gets the blood pumping. That, to me, is critical for a good fight theme (why do you think I'm so obsessed with Live And Learn in Smash?).
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Well, in-game characters are often morons for reasons of plot development.
It's not the characters really, just the fans. In the plot Zero has clearly been labeled "missing in action". X himself desperately searched for his parts, but only gave up because Zero had vanished. Throughout X6 they still believe Zero might be alive.
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True, the opening cutscene states "barely escaped with their lives", but I'm not sure how many game characters besides Isoc consider it likely that Zero survived. X is eternally hopeful, I'm sure, but his reaction at seeing Zero seems to indicate that the worst had at least occurred to him.
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Do you know what sort of sucked about X8? Every level was a gimmick. There weren't any normal levels with enemies. The closest to those are Pandemonium & Antonion, but they have ride armor through the whole level & buttons to make them abnormal. I like a few gimmick stages, like McWhalen & Dizzy from X5, but not all of the Mavericks'.
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Holy [parasitic bomb]. Excuse wall of text. Or scroll. :|
I'll again reiterate that X is as dead as Zero in X5. I'm not sure by what logic it is assumed that only X's creator would take measures to ensure his survival when we know as stated fact that Zero's creator was already involved in the virus-colony plot.
The difference is that X was revived at the end of X5, Inafune thought X5 was going to be the last one, and had to change Z1 to realign with X6.
You don't if you claim that X6 is unclearable as unarmored X. That is not an elitist attitude, it is fact.
If you're going to attach minimalist run strings to that statement, you need to say so. And that's an argument I've already been over. Long story short: Part of a minimalist run is determining what the minimum requirements actually are. If you can't do that then you have no business attempting it. The same as no reasonably intelligent individual should be conceding their default equipment in any game without first thinking about the consequences. You speak as if the casual player will be attempting the game unarmored and there is really no reason they should be doing so.
The reason I brought up <i>partless</i> unarmored X is to show that you can't always substitute skill to clear a stage. This isn't like a turn-based RPG where it's generally dependent on your preexisting conditions. It's a platformer where power ups usually only help you to apply less skill. I'm stereotyping the game, yes, but that's the point. Is it <i>my</i> fault as the gamer if the developers don't warn me beforehand? And I'm not even talking about doing a handicapped run here, but rather a legitimate scenario.
I realize that full well. Let me be equally clear. No other game, sans X5, makes every item in the game skippable. There are bound to be concessions, which even as you yourself stated encourage creativity. Thus by your own admission we are talking about a differing style, which is not a flaw. Neither is less valid than the other.
No, it <b>is</b> a flaw. I'm playing the game normally, not handicapped, and yet I lose because the game's layout was poorly planned.
If I should expect things like this to happen, then it wouldn't be.
5 was nothing like the first 4. Not to mention I fail to see how unexpected cross-game differences are unfair. Every title is to be judged on its own merits; MegaMan games are actually unusual in how similar they are. That still doesn't mean that knowledge of previous titles is a free pass to future titles.
Mega Man games (at least Classic and X) were generally very similar from one title to the next. This isn't, say, Final Fantasy, where the next game is usually made fresh. This is Mega Man, where games are built on a preexisting formula. People who buy the game expect it to be similar to the previous title.
Doesn't <i>have</i> to be similar. But in the scenario in which we speak, it should be because there's really no good reason why it shouldn't be.
...because your Select button was dead?
Or I wanted to go back to the stage select? If I'm correct, pressing select brings you back to the title screen. Unless you mean talking to that useless navigator who can't talk to you during the Gate Stages anyways (thank god that's no longer mandatory).
Loading your file may be faster than through a game over. But then you bring up the issues of lives. IIRC there IS no point of lives in X6. >_>
I believe we already tackled this with MM1 and MM8. MM3's incidents are insignificant by comparison as they involve draining multiple weapon bars (you have to be out of both Jet and Coil to get stuck in Doc Robot's Gemini Man) for no particular reason, as they have nowhere near enough realistic use outside of those obstacles to expect such.
In MM8, you <b>have</b> to get said abilities. When you can skip them, like MM1, that should be a flaw. It's a bit more understandable in MM1's case though, seeing how you can't skip the screen WITH Magnet Beam. In X6's case, on the other hand, it's more of "oh, too bad, you're just unlucky."
The only thing about X4 that I didn't care for was the soundtrack. I honestly think it's one of the weakest in the X series.
;^;
See, there's another problem I had with X4's music too; the Final Stages. They. Are. So. Bland.
Okay, I'll give you that. Spaceport was somewhat okay, though (imo).
Opening stage (overseas version), Yammark stage, Shieldner Sheldon stage, INFINITY MIJINION stage, every single boss theme.
The terribleness of Ground Scaravich almost makes up for all that though.
There's an oversea version? Wait, mine is the oversea version.
...
There's an original version? :|
I don't get it either, but it's the same logic that without raising questions can make a body completely vanish despite the weapon on its back still being completely intact and left behind in the place of the incident.
:\
Maybe that's why he went missing and undercover? Lance Bean did a better job.
Yeah, and Brawl refers to Crystal Flash as Power Suit Samus. >U<
Or how Zero Laser could've easily been Omega Cannon/Hyper Beam/Phazon Beam? Or how Pokemon Trainer's name should be Red (although his name is chosen, the same could be said about Link)? Or how they forgot to translate Black Knight's sword in his trophy description?
I dislike Brawl. B(
Although in all fairness I didn't take that close a look at the X1-6 track list (I do have it lying around somewhere), so that was a good point.
Excusable though, since the final stage shows Sigma's mugshot instead of Zero's helmet.
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Do you know what sort of sucked about X8? Every level was a gimmick. There weren't any normal levels with enemies. The closest to those are Pandemonium & Antonion, but they have ride armor through the whole level & buttons to make them abnormal. I like a few gimmick stages, like McWhalen & Dizzy from X5, but not all of the Mavericks'.
Most every stage in every game has some sort of gimmick. And although Pandemonium is a Ride Armor stage, you're not forced to use it.
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The gimmicks in the earlier games aren't nearly as bad as in X8 though. If you take away the gimmicks in X8 you don't have any level left.
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That's mostly true.
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Yeah, and Brawl refers to Crystal Flash as Power Suit Samus. >U<
Although in all fairness I didn't take that close a look at the X1-6 track list (I do have it lying around somewhere), so that was a good point.
Haha, move names & soundtrack listing are two completely different things. XD
Well, that's what I think of X5's.
But, as said by others, I don't think a boss theme necessarily needs to go anywhere. X3's is repetitive, and that's why I kicked it down lower (I hate X8's second part, too, so X2 is the only "dignified" theme that X3's outclasses in my book), but it is hard-rocking enough that it gets the blood pumping. That, to me, is critical for a good fight theme (why do you think I'm so obsessed with Live And Learn in Smash?).
LoL, as I said, I can understand the dislike for X5's Theme.
X3's boss music was just terrible, especially when you compare it to...hell, just the SNES ones. It doesn't even have any kind of good opening, it comes in at a pathetically 10 seconds of shortitude before looping, and is clearly a rush job when you compare it to the other SNES X games, both of which are double the size of the track. Hell, to even bring up Live & Learn while trying to talk about X3's Boss Theme is mind blowing. If you just take the opening 10 seconds of Live & Learn and loop it, it's still a better boss theme than X3's. X3's Boss Theme has little to no drum work at all, and the BOSS 1 theme has better guitar work. To me, there is absolutely nothing "hard-rocking" about the theme at all.
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Even the arranged version for the disc-based ports?
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Even the arranged version for the disc-based ports?
If you mean the Saturn version, I will say that the Saturn X3 Boss Theme is indeed better than the SNES version Boss Theme. So is the Boss 1/Boss Intro theme as well.....although it's actually longer than the actual boss theme....
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I had not considered differing versions of the same music track when I made my list. Otherwise we're missing the disc-based X3, both Xtremes, and MHX. Should have probably snuck Command Mission in there somewhere too.
I have to admit I did kinda like the disc-based X3 boss intro, though. There was something strangely hypnotic about it.
If you just take the opening 10 seconds of Live & Learn and loop it, it's still a better boss theme than X3's.
No argument here.
I think you're severely over-estimating my opinion of the X3 boss tune. I ranked it 6th out of 9. And numbers 8 and 9 on that list I considered garbage. As I said earlier, X2 is the only "dignified" boss tune that I consider arguable as compared to X3. And even in that instance there is no doubt in my mind that X2 is better composed than X3's trained monkey jingle, it's just a matter of how they fit as a boss BGM.
The difference is that X was revived at the end of X5, Inafune thought X5 was going to be the last one, and had to change Z1 to realign with X6.
Which was done prior to release. And it is rather naive to assume that it is not normal for games to see storyline changes over the course of their development. Hell, Copy X didn't even exist until the last month of development (estimated by Aizu, producer of the Zero series and president of IntiCreates).
Inafune didn't produce X5, either, so failure of its sequel to conform to Inafune's presuppositions isn't much of an argument.
It's a platformer where power ups usually only help you to apply less skill. I'm stereotyping the game, yes, but that's the point. Is it <i>my</i> fault as the gamer if the developers don't warn me beforehand?
Failure to conform to your own stereotype IS your fault and noone else's. Your attitude towards power-ups is not only elitist but downright false. We've already covered numerous other required instances of them in the franchise. Not to mention we are talking about a franchise which debuted with an easily missed yet absolutely required power-up (which is, again, not the case in X6 as there is never one single power-up that is required, only one from a pool of other options). I'm sorry but your argument couldn't be more weak. EVERYTHING is possibly missed, and NOTHING is absolutely required. You merely need one out of over half a dozen options. That is more than adequate.
I'm playing the game normally, not handicapped, and yet I lose because the game's layout was poorly planned.
(http://home.comcast.net/~Anguirus/objection.gif)
This argument is not applicable to Gate's Lab 2. Disabling your default abilities is by definition handicapped. Your default abilities in X6 are those of the Falcon Armor. If you are playing Unarmored, you are playing handicapped. Never from the first second of gameplay, under any circumstances whatsoever, is it ever necessary or advantageous to do so. Even in X5 Unarmored X had benefits. It has none in X6. If you are playing unarmored and do not realize that you handicapped yourself, you are not paying attention.
But in the scenario in which we speak, it should be because there's really no good reason why it shouldn't be.
You realize that by such logic the very 2D nature of X8 is a game flaw? Then there's the lack of charging and sliding in MM9. Or the 1st-person angle in Metroid Prime.
If you are not a game developer then your opinion on how similar a sequel should be means nothing. No amount of precedent invalidates the option of a new direction, ever. Assuming otherwise only sets yourself up for failure.
Or I wanted to go back to the stage select? If I'm correct, pressing select brings you back to the title screen.
It's called, "Use Previous Data". Jeez, man, you're criticizing over unexpected obstacles when you don't even know your way around the Load Game menu screen?
In X6's case, on the other hand, it's more of "oh, too bad, you're just unlucky."
Let's go over the checklist for this scenario:
-Did not complete Shadow Armor
-Did not complete Blade Armor
-Did not defeat Nightmare Zero
-Did not defeat Blizzard Wolfang
-Did not find Jumper
-Despite sucking this badly did not consider the Ultimate Armor code
You are permitted to remove one, and only one, of the latter 3. Anything else invalidates the scenario.
That's pretty damn unlucky.
Again, I'm referring to Gate's Lab 1. Your argument is invalid in Gate's Lab 2 as your default abilities get you through that. Only through forsaking them do you get stuck.
I dislike Brawl. B(
You are dead to me (barring the unlikely event that it's because of Mewtwo's absence).
Excusable though, since the final stage shows Sigma's mugshot instead of Zero's helmet.
That was my logic, yeah.
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There's an oversea version? Wait, mine is the oversea version.
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There's an original version? :|
The American version got a couple of guitar riffs, nothing really special.
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It's called Zero Stage 2 because the final areas take place in Zero Space. The tracks probably should be called Zero Space Stage 1 & 2 in that case. But I do consider that stage a Sigma stage more than a Zero stage. And the RAVE is quite awesome.
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I had not considered differing versions of the same music track when I made my list. Otherwise we're missing the disc-based X3, both Xtremes, and MHX. Should have probably snuck Command Mission in there somewhere too.
I have to admit I did kinda like the disc-based X3 boss intro, though. There was something strangely hypnotic about it.
I wasn't considering them either. I was mainly just answering his question. And I have no problem with the BOSS 1/Boss Intro theme from X3 in either the SNES or Saturn version. I like it a hell of a lot more than I like the X3 boss theme.
No argument here.
I think you're severely over-estimating my opinion of the X3 boss tune. I ranked it 6th out of 9. And numbers 8 and 9 on that list I considered garbage. As I said earlier, X2 is the only "dignified" boss tune that I consider arguable as compared to X3. And even in that instance there is no doubt in my mind that X2 is better composed than X3's trained monkey jingle, it's just a matter of how they fit as a boss BGM.
You know, we probably should make a separate topic to compare MM Soundtracks.
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Opening stage (overseas version), Yammark stage, Shieldner Sheldon stage, INFINITY MIJINION stage, every single boss theme.
The terribleness of Ground Scaravich almost makes up for all that though.
What is this specifying overseas version? Are there multiple versions of the opening stage of X6?
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there's little noticeable difference.
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What is this specifying overseas version? Are there multiple versions of the opening stage of X6?
As they said above, the US release just has a few guitar riffs on it. I concur it's not anything to write home about. Just a little extra touch.
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Hell, Copy X didn't even exist until the last month of development (estimated by Aizu, producer of the Zero series and president of IntiCreates).
Inafune didn't produce X5, either, so failure of its sequel to conform to Inafune's presuppositions isn't much of an argument.
Hmm, wasn't aware of the latter (I do know for a fact that the team was different, but not much else other than that). I'll give this one to you.
Failure to conform to your own stereotype IS your fault and noone else's. Your attitude towards power-ups is not only elitist but downright false. We've already covered numerous other required instances of them in the franchise. Not to mention we are talking about a franchise which debuted with an easily missed yet absolutely required power-up (which is, again, not the case in X6 as there is never one single power-up that is required, only one from a pool of other options). I'm sorry but your argument couldn't be more weak. EVERYTHING is possibly missed, and NOTHING is absolutely required. You merely need one out of over half a dozen options. That is more than adequate.
So are you implying that we should excuse poor design because it's "different"?
Are we even on the right track? I'm not even talking about partless, unarmored X anymore. I've moved on to partless, Shadow X:
But is this exactly fair for players and fans who come into the game expecting it to be like the first 5 only to find they can't beat the second/third Gate stage as X without some form of air dash or "mobility" part? I know I was frustrated, going into the stage as <i>Shadow X</i> without the proper parts.
And I'm not even talking about doing a <b>handicapped run</b> here, but rather <b>a legitimate scenario.</b>
I'm playing the game <b>normally, not handicapped</b>
This argument is not applicable to Gate's Lab 2. Disabling your default abilities is by definition handicapped. Your default abilities in X6 are those of the Falcon Armor. If you are playing Unarmored, you are playing handicapped. Never from the first second of gameplay, under any circumstances whatsoever, is it ever necessary or advantageous to do so. Even in X5 Unarmored X had benefits. It has none in X6. If you are playing unarmored and do not realize that you handicapped yourself, you are not paying attention.
Whoa, misunderstanding.
Same as above, I was talking about going through Gate's Lab 2 with Shadow Armor and without a Hyper Dash/etc. part.
If you are not a game developer then your opinion on how similar a sequel should be means nothing. No amount of precedent invalidates the option of a new direction, ever. Assuming otherwise only sets yourself up for failure.
I don't need to be a game designer to know that there's no point in including unnecessary flaws in my game intentionally.
It's called, "Use Previous Data". Jeez, man, you're criticizing over unexpected obstacles when you don't even know your way around the Load Game menu screen?
Loading your file may be faster than through a game over.
I already admitted it was faster. I could care less. Would've saved me 2 minutes at most. The point is that I had to restart, whether I wanted to or not.
That's pretty damn unlucky.
Not really. Shadow Armor without a necessary part? Is that so hard to imagine?
Again, I'm referring to Gate's Lab 1. Your argument is invalid in Gate's Lab 2 as your default abilities get you through that. Only through forsaking them do you get stuck.
Why do you need to bring up Gate's Lab 1? I wasn't even complaining about Gate's Lab 1.
At least in the first Gate stage, they were nice enough to put the threshold at the beginning of the stage.
Gate Lab 1 is more reasonable in that you need the requirements to pass at the beginning. Versus, in Gate's Lab 2 (X), "if you don't have said requirements, you can't past part 2, forcing you to replay part 1 AND High Max."
Unless you're telling me it's possible to beat Gate's Lab 2 with Shadow X and no parts.
You are dead to me (barring the unlikely event that it's because of Mewtwo's absence).
I'm part of the "Melee>Brawl" people. Brawl is too much of a campfest. You can't even combo. :\
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Say, don't you need a part to get by that section with the Falcon armour as well? I'd check myself, but I lent the game to someone for a bit. Because if it did, it would pretty much invalidate one of Shelly's arguments, considering you can't even get by that segment with the so-called default for X without a part.
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I was gonna ask if it was totally okay to come in here and just quote Flame Hyenard.
Then I remembered this was an X8 topic.
Can I quote Burn Cock instead?
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KAW!
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ITT Soultrigger complains about X6 being too hard
I mean really, Hyper Dash is easily equivalent to the Magnet Beam. If you don't like it, maybe you just don't Mega Man fully, & that offends me.
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Say, don't you need a part to get by that section with the Falcon armour as well? I'd check myself, but I lent the game to someone for a bit. Because if it did, it would pretty much invalidate one of Shelly's arguments, considering you can't even get by that segment with the so-called default for X without a part.
Interesting. I would try it out, but believe it or not, I'm not allowed to play during the weekdays and I'm very busy with school. -_-
Maybe I'll record it on a weekend, if I remember/care enough.
ITT Soultrigger complains about X6 being too hard
I mean really, Hyper Dash is easily equivalent to the Magnet Beam. If you don't like it, maybe you just don't Mega Man fully, & that offends me.
Way to misinterpret me. I'm not complaining about the difficulty, but rather the polish of the game itself. To me, X6 is a cakewalk. >_> (after much memorization, of course).
Also, I've already stated that, although you can skip Magnet Beam "accidentally," you cannot skip the screen with it, meaning you, <b>at the very least</b>, have been shown the item.
IMHO, Mega Man can't be compared to X6 very well. X6 is significantly more open-ended than Mega Man, so things in X6 may or may not be optional, forcing the player to find out what they need.
I'm sorry for being totally off-topic from X8. But if someone tries to argue against me, I can't simply say "okay, you're right" when I don't even agree. I'd like to cut the argument short, but I'm pretty firm with my position.
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Just to clear up confusion:
From what I see, Hypershell is arguing that in order to attempt a minimalistic run, the player needs to be aware of the limits and rules of such a run. Otherwise, it's the player's fault for being insufficiently prepared during any part of the run. He also argues that any sequel never has to rely on any precedents made from previous installments.
To be perfectly clear, I <b>agree</b> with these statements.
What I'm arguing (which seems to be constantly misunderstood) is that X6 is flawed because, in a specific and inconvenient spot in the game, the player may forcibly lose due to a fault from the developers. This instance occurs:
-During Gate's Lab 2, part 2 as X
-When X is either Unarmored, Shadow, or possibly Falcon
-When X is not equipped with a part that enhances his mobility (e.g. Hyper Dash)
-You don't use exploits like aerial Magma Blade to increase distance
Unlike Gate's Lab 1, this occurs in the middle of part 2 and, IIRC, restarting the stage forces you to replay part 1 <b>and</b> High Max.
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So are you implying that we should excuse poor design because it's "different"?
"Poor" is a term that relates to one's expectations, especially in your case if what I've read is any indication. There is no standardized scale in entertainment. Whether or not warnings prior to hazards are merited, and to what degree, is up to personal preference.
I've moved on to partless, Shadow X
Shadow X again forsakes default abilities, that being the air-dash. It's not something to give up so recklessly.
You were a stickler about expecting X5-to-X6 similarities, so I'll give you one: Shadow is X6's equivalent to Gaia Armor. Gaia Armor hampered your default abilities by slowing your dash speed, which made Zero Virus Stage 1 very nearly impossible, and far more tedious than I care to repeat despite my love of Gaia. Shadow, likewise, does the same in its lacking an air-dash, a feature which X6 utilizes far more than X5 did. It's the tradeoff for your spike immunity and insane power (Gaia's buster raped bosses, if you recall). However, unlike Gaia, Shadow doesn't cancel Power-Up Parts, so you can compensate. An option which X5 did not provide.
Shadow is a trade-off in lacking abilities you started the game with. Such should not be taken recklessly.
Why do you need to bring up Gate's Lab 1?
As far as I am concerned Shadow Armor is understood as partially handicapped for reasons I described above, therefore I did not consider Gate's Lab 2 relevant to discussions of a run which you specifically described as not handicapped. Your last post wasn't very specific in which part of the game you were complaining about. You "moved past" unarmored X complaints but the specific point at which you did so was not clear to me.
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There is no standardized scale in entertainment.
Because if they were, we wouldn't have such awful movies like Catwoman.
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Well, that and we couldn't discuss our tastes in kickass music like we do.
Half-empty or half-full? >U<
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3/4 Full for me! Till I drink all my delicious Mango Lemonade. But then I just get more!
Wait....what are we talking about again?
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Kickass music? 8D
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Indeed. You know what, I think I'm going to make that topic.
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"Poor" is a term that relates to one's expectations, especially in your case if what I've read is any indication. There is no standardized scale in entertainment. Whether or not warnings prior to hazards are merited, and to what degree, is up to personal preference.
Of course life is subjective and people are entitled to their opinions. The only absolute things in life are probably the facts.
Let's bring up the forced gameover situation yet again. I can say it's cheap and unfair. On the other hand, I could say it adds "replay value." Obviously, I believe the former and, from past experiences (i.e. X~X5), think it should have been excluded from the game. Don't agree with me and think my thought process is flawed? Fine, but we'll end it with that.
Shadow X again forsakes default abilities, that being the air-dash. It's not something to give up so recklessly.
You were a stickler about expecting X5-to-X6 similarities, so I'll give you one: Shadow is X6's equivalent to Gaia Armor. Gaia Armor hampered your default abilities by slowing your dash speed, which made Zero Virus Stage 1 very nearly impossible, and far more tedious than I care to repeat despite my love of Gaia. Shadow, likewise, does the same in its lacking an air-dash, a feature which X6 utilizes far more than X5 did. It's the tradeoff for your spike immunity and insane power (Gaia's buster raped bosses, if you recall). However, unlike Gaia, Shadow doesn't cancel Power-Up Parts, so you can compensate. An option which X5 did not provide.
Shadow is a trade-off in lacking abilities you started the game with. Such should not be taken recklessly.
Not exactly. Shadow is partially handicapped, yes, but it's different from Unarmored X in that it has benefits. Unlike Unarmored X, which is solely for challenge, Shadow is offered as a differing play style.
As far as I am concerned Shadow Armor is understood as partially handicapped for reasons I described above, therefore I did not consider Gate's Lab 2 relevant to discussions of a run which you specifically described as not handicapped. Your last post wasn't very specific in which part of the game you were complaining about. You "moved past" unarmored X complaints but the specific point at which you did so was not clear to me.
Sorry for being unclear then.
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Shadow X
It's been ages since I played X6 and I'm trying to remember the lay out of that area in question. I wonder... is it not perhaps possible to cross that gap by making creative use of Shadow's ceiling cling capabilities?
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If you mean Gate's lab first stage then yes, that's how I did the first time around. For some reason I thought I required Shadow X to do it XD
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It's been ages since I played X6 and I'm trying to remember the lay out of that area in question. I wonder... is it not perhaps possible to cross that gap by making creative use of Shadow's ceiling cling capabilities?
I think you need to be on a floor to use High Jump/Ceiling Cling.
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Unlike Gate's Lab 1, this occurs in the middle of part 2 and, IIRC, restarting the stage forces you to replay part 1 <b>and</b> High Max.
It'd be so much better if you had to start at the first Gate stage.
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You lie.
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It's been ages since I played X6 and I'm trying to remember the lay out of that area in question. I wonder... is it not perhaps possible to cross that gap by making creative use of Shadow's ceiling cling capabilities?
this might help.
http://www.bghq.com/bgs.php?system=psx
however, it seems to lack X's after Highmax area... Or at leats the part I THINK is in question. (having to cross that gap while in the acid rain, right?)
also, Shadow armor's Ceiling cling works exactly the same as Zero's. up and jump, and you do a high jump. if you hit a ceiling you'll grab onto it. you can then shoot down a rain of shuriken shots, unless you have ultimate buster. you can also dash across the ceiling instead of staying shooting down.
but you have to start on the ground to do all that.
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Is it the part after :50 here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAL4FeW0OqA
Unless I'm confusing it with a similar part in Gate's first level, I think I did get past that with the Shadow Armor (it was quite long ago so I'm not sure).
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but you have to start on the ground to do all that.
Yeah, that's the part I completely forgot about.... So scratch that suggestion.
You know, looking at the pit in question, it -looks- easily doable with default wall kicks, but somehow isn't. I doubt you'd actually notice you're stuck outside of failing all the time. It just looks too doable for one not to try again and again.
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Is it the part after :50 here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAL4FeW0OqA
Unless I'm confusing it with a similar part in Gate's first level, I think I did get past that with the Shadow Armor (it was quite long ago so I'm not sure).
1:03 specifically
You know, looking at the pit in question, it -looks- easily doable with default wall kicks, but somehow isn't. I doubt you'd actually notice you're stuck outside of failing all the time. It just looks too doable for one not to try again and again.
You realize it's impossible when you hit the opposite wall for the 50th time.
Still, this is what makes games good & hard. Anyone that hates that jump is a big pussy.
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You know, looking at the pit in question, it -looks- easily doable with default wall kicks, but somehow isn't. I doubt you'd actually notice you're stuck outside of failing all the time. It just looks too doable for one not to try again and again.
It's because the pillar hanging down in the middle of it caps the height of your jump, hence the necessity for distance without height. Despite this Jumper still seems to increase your air time to make things easier, but it's Hyper Dash that is really necessary for unarmored/Shadow. You can clear it without Jumper, though, it just takes precise timing.
Not exactly. Shadow is partially handicapped, yes, but it's different from Unarmored X in that it has benefits. Unlike Unarmored X, which is solely for challenge, Shadow is offered as a differing play style.
That much is true. But anybody who paid attention while exploring X6's expanded areas probably noticed how difficult it is to get around without an air-dash (Amazon Area in particular). Hyper Dash is the compensator for that. Shadow's firepower is a valuable asset, but forking over your default abilities really isn't something you should be doing in unfamiliar territory unless you're willing to face the risks.
You're only slightly more screwed in that situation than you are with Gaia Armor in Zero Virus 1. In X6 the work-around is a part. In X5 it's repeated deaths for the sake of memorization. I don't know about you but I prefer the earlier. It makes replays a lot more pleasant.
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Why would Gaia make Zero Virus 1 hard? It can still dash jump fine, right?
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Why would Gaia make Zero Virus 1 hard? It can still dash jump fine, right?
The slow speed makes the lasers that much more of a pain to avoid. The fact that you stick to walls also hurts more than helps when you're trying to avoid those things. Access to Dark Hold never hurts, either.
Also, I made a hilarious discovery about the game just now. Using the T-Breaker, you can actually kill Vile while he's on his Ride Armor. It's funny because the finishing blow launches Vile off of the armor, which is very amusing to watch.
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Also, I made a hilarious discovery about the game just now. Using the T-Breaker, you can actually kill Vile while he's on his Ride Armor. It's funny because the finishing blow launches Vile off of the armor, which is very amusing to watch.
Care to elaborate? This could help if I ever speedrun X8 again.
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Use the T hammer
get Vile down to near death,
hit him.
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Care to elaborate? This could help if I ever speedrun X8 again.
The T-Breaker's gimmick is that it ignores guards; it doesn't break them, it just acts like they aren't there. For example, you can kill Trilobite without ever needing to remove his armor. In the same respect for Vile, you can kill him without having to force him out of the armor, provided you actually aim for Vile's body and not the armor itself. I will note that you cannot use it on Lumine's Paradise Lost technique IIRC.
A couple more random tidbits:
- X's Crystal Wall 'absorbs' electricity; it even goes so far as to absorb all of the electricity shot out of Man-o-War's desperation attack.
- When Antonion chucks his boulder at you, you can use Zero's 3rd slash to knock it back to him. After this Antonion will catch it and proceed to throw it again. Do this 3 times and he will drop it on himself, doing quite a large chunk of damage.
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How fast can this be done to Vile? Faster than in this video? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95T91QIHPqQ&feature=channel_page)
The Antonion thing also has me curious.
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How fast can this be done to Vile? Faster than in this video? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95T91QIHPqQ&feature=channel_page)
The Antonion thing also has me curious.
That honestly depends. I will note that there is no damage barrier in effect when using the Breaker on Vile IIRC, which means that you could probably dust him with Black Zero. Normally, you have to wait for invincibility times to wear off, especially when he gets back into the armor. If you're speedrunning it then you won't care about getting hit, so in that regard it may in fact be a faster alternative. Then again, I'm no speedrunner myself. :\
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That much is true. But anybody who paid attention while exploring X6's expanded areas probably noticed how difficult it is to get around without an air-dash (Amazon Area in particular). Hyper Dash is the compensator for that. Shadow's firepower is a valuable asset, but forking over your default abilities really isn't something you should be doing in unfamiliar territory unless you're willing to face the risks.
You're only slightly more screwed in that situation than you are with Gaia Armor in Zero Virus 1. In X6 the work-around is a part. In X5 it's repeated deaths for the sake of memorization. I don't know about you but I prefer the earlier. It makes replays a lot more pleasant.
I get what you mean, but after Gate's Lab 1, it's not too far-fetched to go into Lab 2 with Shadow (especially since Lab 2 also has plenty of spikes). Going in without Hyper Dash is just bad luck. :\
Anyways, I finished recording what I promised. Now I just need to make the vid/upload.
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Ive done Gate 2 with Blade armor and Ultimate armor... no Hyper dash speedster or jumper. God... all those spikes and moving platforms...
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Gate's Lab 1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzRr7UNzO7g[/youtube]
Gate's Lab 2 (X)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvNv2E9k6Ic[/youtube]
Read the youtube vid. description for more info. and feel free to comment. :)
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The slow speed makes the lasers that much more of a pain to avoid. The fact that you stick to walls also hurts more than helps when you're trying to avoid those things. Access to Dark Hold never hurts, either.
Sliding on the walls in any other armor usually results in death, anyway, & I was so done using Dark Hold like 8 years ago.
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Even if you're in the habit of not using Dark Hold, the slowed dash speed (which applies to dash-jumps as much as it does ground dashing) hurts. A lot. You need split-second timing and a good knowledge of where the traps are or you absolutely will not make it. And this is coming from somebody who does Quick Man's stage without Time Stopper every time. Zero Virus 1 with Gaia is hell. Worth it for taking down Shadow Devil with that awesome insta-charge buster, but still hell.
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which applies to dash-jumps as much as it does ground dashing
Not really. Gaia's dash jumping is faster than dashing for some reason. It's still slower than default, though.
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I thought dash-jump for everything was faster than ground dashing? That's the only way you get into Metal Shark Player's alternate area partless (not that you'd want to without Ultimate).
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Well, there's a brief startup time for when you dash from a standing position, as well as when the dash ends if you don't jump during the dash. So technically, in X4-6 engine, dash jumping is faster than dashing.
But X6 has a unique property in that dashing from a crouch has much less startup. I don't know if that could help in making it across. But yeah, why bother when you have Nova Strike or Hyper Dash?
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I thought dash-jump for everything was faster than ground dashing? That's the only way you get into Metal Shark Player's alternate area partless (not that you'd want to without Ultimate).
What are all the different ways to cross that? Zero can do it with his High Max killing weapon, I know that, but what of other armors?
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I thought dash-jump for everything was faster than ground dashing? That's the only way you get into Metal Shark Player's alternate area partless (not that you'd want to without Ultimate).
Why would you want Ultimate? I had no issues with partless and armorless X. The only requirement is being equipped with Wolfang's weapon. Sure, the jump is tricky, but X6 gives you infinite retries.
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Good point. I'm just used to Hyper Dashing everywhere, and I foolishly did not write down my "impossible jump requirements" the last time I elaborated on that level.
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To be fair, Quickman's stage is easier than Zero Virus 1 overall, if only due to the fact that the controls are more sluggish in X4-6.
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Good point. I'm just used to Hyper Dashing everywhere, and I foolishly did not write down my "impossible jump requirements" the last time I elaborated on that level.
Well, the whole ice burst + pixel perfect precision dash jump + respawning Nightmares combination certainly makes for quite a hellish near impossible jump. Really, I pity the person that manages to get in there without any of the requirement and lots and lots of lives. Though if you succeed in getting there with so many extra lives, you probably know X6 well enough not to make such a foolish mistake...
You know, I wonder why X5 and X6 even has something as arbitrary as extra lives... continues place you at the exact same place... They might as well have given you an escape function that can be used at any given time...
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Well, the whole ice burst + pixel perfect precision dash jump + respawning Nightmares combination certainly makes for quite a hellish near impossible jump. Really, I pity the person that manages to get in there without any of the requirement and lots and lots of lives. Though if you succeed in getting there with so many extra lives, you probably know X6 well enough not to make such a foolish mistake...
I got in there on my first run through the game ever, thinking it was the way I had to go. It's definitely not as hard to get in there as some of you seem to think >_>'
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I was putting emphasis on the amount of lives you have. By that point the garbage compressor must have killed you plenty for an easy game over if you're really stuck.
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as if lives mean anything in X5/6
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Extra lives in X5/6 stand for the passage of time till one could potentially reach the stage select again.
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Extra lives in X5/6 stand for the passage of time till one could potentially reach the stage select again.
"Use previous data" is your best friend in X6. Saves plenty of time.
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"Use previous data" is your best friend in X6. Saves plenty of time.
There's no guarantee someone saves every single time they return to the stage select.
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Use previous data isn't a save thing Zan. it sends you back to Stage select with your most recent playing data.
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Flame stole my line. You can always return to the Stage Select in X6. You just have to pass through the Title Screen, and lose whatever you collected in the stage you're on, but you can do it.
I got in there on my first run through the game ever, thinking it was the way I had to go. It's definitely not as hard to get in there as some of you seem to think >_>'
It was a while before I noticed that you can get in there unconditionally *IF* you know how to work your dash-jumps. I guess some players do that out of habit.
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It was a while before I noticed that you can get in there unconditionally *IF* you know how to work your dash-jumps. I guess some players do that out of habit.
Yeah, I started doing it in X4 since I hated the way the dash ended, and it kind of carried on after that.
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See, I'm the opposite. I think the slide-to-a-stop frames look cool. But you skip them anyway if you hold forward, which I do, so it winds up not making any difference on that end. Jumping at the end of the dash just lets you keep the dash speed longer without breaking. I guess I just don't like to take to the air needlessly (with the following exceptions: Model HX, Xtreme2, and boss doors).
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To be fair, Quickman's stage is easier than Zero Virus 1 overall, if only due to the fact that the controls are more sluggish in X4-6.
Ridiculous. They're both pretty just a matter of knowing where to go. In fact, Quick Man's stage's lasers require more precision than Zero Virus 1's, which give you a bit more breathing room.
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Ridiculous. They're both pretty just a matter of knowing where to go. In fact, Quick Man's stage's lasers require more precision than Zero Virus 1's, which give you a bit more breathing room.
I personally find X5 to be harder. In MM2, the only thing you need to be concerned with is walking in the right direction. In X5, you have the issues of dashing, accidentally clinging to walls, etc.
For a better example, look at Mega Man [Game Gear] by U.S. Gold. In the "Quick Man" stage, you have to worry about sliding as well.
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In the X series, I can dash. sliding doesnt help much IMO. plus, I can dash jump. and, I can refil my Dark Hold with an W-subtank.
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What the lasers of Turbo Man's in MM7? There were a beast for me to get through.
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I personally find X5 to be harder. In MM2, the only thing you need to be concerned with is walking in the right direction. In X5, you have the issues of dashing, accidentally clinging to walls, etc.
For a better example, look at Mega Man [Game Gear] by U.S. Gold. In the "Quick Man" stage, you have to worry about sliding as well.
Or just look at Rockman Exile or something.
In the X series, I can dash. sliding doesnt help much IMO. plus, I can dash jump. and, I can refil my Dark Hold with an W-subtank.
I just beat it without that crap anyway, but sometimes with it, depending on what sort of run I'm doing at the time.
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What the lasers of Turbo Man's in MM7? There were a beast for me to get through.
Srsly? I thought those were pathetically easy IMO; I can clear those without the slightest worry. You should try the ones in Quickman's stage on Network Transmission, those things are pure evil.
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I totally forgot about MM7 and Network Transmission. What an obscure example. 8D
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Wait what? Network Transmission was so.. easy >0<
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Wait what? Network Transmission was so.. easy >0<
It was? Maybe after upgrading yourself a bit it became less strenuous, but by no means was it an all-around easy game. Especially with Protoman and his cheating self.