Rockman Perfect Memories

Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Zero => Topic started by: Hiroki on April 23, 2009, 04:14:41 AM

Title: A Zero remake..
Post by: Hiroki on April 23, 2009, 04:14:41 AM
.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Ace DeSpade on April 23, 2009, 04:18:03 AM
I would totally like this. Zero greatly lacked VA and propper cutscenes, which would add to the plot quite nicely. Plus, some stages and fights would work great in 3D. So, yeah, if such a thing ever existed, I would KILL to play it.  owo
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Rad Lionheart on April 23, 2009, 04:20:42 AM
Sounds awesome to me.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Night on April 23, 2009, 04:20:48 AM
I'll kill you if you don't
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Night on April 23, 2009, 04:29:15 AM
Are you kidding? I've been "dreaming" of something like this for YEARS!

Heck, something along the lines of maverick hunter X style would would be nice!
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Sub Tank on April 23, 2009, 04:29:34 AM
I can't wait for all the old Megaman games to be remade when virtual reality comes out.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 23, 2009, 04:35:29 AM
i am against such idea cause i'm getting really tired of remakes.

there's nothing wrong with cartoony. that's half the reason some of us even play Mega Man in the first place.

and i don't think Legends type gameplay really suits Zero. sword slashing in that engine would be clunky. Devil May Cry, on the other hand, would be a nice fit.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Fxeni on April 23, 2009, 04:39:46 AM
I dunno... I think 2D sidescrolling fits the Zero series better. That's me though.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Night on April 23, 2009, 04:44:41 AM
megaman is a game intended for kids...
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 23, 2009, 04:45:42 AM
just because a series is darker and more serious, doesn't mean it can't be made for all audiences. making something more "mature" would not help matters. if anything, it would signify Jumping the Shark.

for additional reading, see Shadow the Hedgehog.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Tickle Buffalo on April 23, 2009, 04:49:14 AM
Making things 3D just because is silly.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Blackhook on April 23, 2009, 03:27:30 PM
I wouldn´t mind a HD remix with better sprites which show emotionts and mouth flapping :P...Why was the blood censored in the US version?
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Acid on April 23, 2009, 03:33:14 PM
It's too early for a remake. FAR too early. But if anything, a HD remake would be sufficient.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Sniper X on April 23, 2009, 03:54:21 PM
I had a dream to do this idea. If only I know how to make a game and learn to make 3D. This is a very awesome idea.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on April 23, 2009, 06:49:02 PM
I dont think a fully 3D Zero game would work that well all I can see it making better, is making the fights against giant armor Omega more worthwhile, as hed be able to move around more like they intended. otherwise, no. HD remix is fine, though I agree its a bit too early for that.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 23, 2009, 07:49:06 PM
Why was the blood censored in the US version?

why do you think?

come to think of it, robots bleeding doesn't make much sense.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Jericho on April 23, 2009, 07:56:03 PM
why do you think?

come to think of it, robots bleeding doesn't make much sense.

I could make an argument for the Mutos & humanoid reploids, but agreed here when considering the smaller bots. Seriously some of the blood spills for them were just over the top. XD
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Protoman Blues on April 23, 2009, 07:59:15 PM
why do you think?

come to think of it, robots bleeding doesn't make much sense.

Samurai Jack pulled it off very nicely
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: RMX on April 23, 2009, 07:59:26 PM
Remember the frustration of not getting any more of these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkKmHWVH30k)?
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on April 23, 2009, 08:03:38 PM
why do you think?

X4 didnt sem to have a problem with blood. hell, you'd think robots were filled with tomato sauce, with how much blood they let out. granted, that was only 2 scenes, but it still counts.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Jericho on April 23, 2009, 08:07:28 PM
Remember the frustration of not getting any more of these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkKmHWVH30k)?

Hell yes. I am still pissed off that EXE/Starforce got full length animations but the Zero series couldn't based on just the commercials alone. XD

Also:

1. Leave Zero series alone.
2. Wait one or two gens
3. Get a HD remix or Devil May Zero on Nintendo DS3/PSPSP
4. ...
5. Profit!
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Ace DeSpade on April 23, 2009, 08:11:52 PM
megaman is a game intended for kids...

Actually, Capcom stated that while Classic was aimed towards kids, the X series were aimed towards a more mature audience. And Rockman Zero had tons of blood in it, not to mention X4's cutscenes.

Plus, MEGA Man may be for kids, but ROCKman is totally not aimed for them. Remember Legends had extreme censorship of some things (I.E: Ero book, Paprika kicking). Zero had quite an amount of blood coming out of the Resistance Soldiers in the intro, too, though the amount of blood was reduced in MMZ. X, as I said, had also quite an amount of blood in the X4 flashback. The X and Zero series had quite a dark storyline, CLEARLY not for kids (Inb4 Elf Wars killing most of humanity).
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Acid on April 23, 2009, 08:14:43 PM
I found X and Zero series to be darkER, but not dark. The presentation seriously lacked to make these two 'mature'.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on April 23, 2009, 08:18:02 PM
the only one that seemed dark was X4, and even then it was only because of the crazy Zero dreams and Double dismembering replodis.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Blackhook on April 23, 2009, 08:18:22 PM
Noone was talking about making it a Shadow the Hedgehog...But I´d like to see a remake for one thing: Why the Heck is OMEGA using a GUN instead of a BUSTER ?!
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Jericho on April 23, 2009, 08:21:00 PM
Noone was talking about making it a Shadow the Hedgehog...But I´d like to see a remake for one thing: Why the Heck is OMEGA using a GUN instead of a BUSTER ?!

Because it's a buster. Artistic differences remember?

Also, I must be the only person in the world getting tired of the "dark" angle. Funfact: mature doesn't always mean darker. Besides, at the end of the day, I just wanna chop [parasitic bomb] in two, story be damned, although I do respect the Zero series for it's stronger focus on story.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Acid on April 23, 2009, 08:21:08 PM
Why the Heck is OMEGA using a GUN instead of a BUSTER ?!
Because Zero does too.

Zero and X don't look different because technology advanced, they look different because Inti decided to give the series a new artstyle. And a Buster is X' trademark weapon. Not Zero's.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Blackhook on April 23, 2009, 08:28:13 PM
But Omega is using Zero´s original body...And MMZ Zero is using Milan´s gun..oh wait, does Zero still have the buster in X7 and so on?
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Acid on April 23, 2009, 08:31:30 PM
It doesn't matter. Zero got a makeover.

From MMZ on, thinking back, Zero always looked the way he did in the MMZ series.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Align on April 23, 2009, 08:34:39 PM
There was one point in MMZ that still had blood in the sprite animations, I don't remember which exactly, but that looked acceptable.
The shower of blood from cutting a metal box was over the top, so I can see why that was removed.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Night on April 23, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
But that's what made the zero-series so unique!

A game where everything you slash at bleeds?! That's just hard-core!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Demonlord/presents/boxblood.png)
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Jericho on April 23, 2009, 09:35:01 PM
There was one point in MMZ that still had blood in the sprite animations, I don't remember which exactly, but that looked acceptable.
The shower of blood from cutting a metal box was over the top, so I can see why that was removed.

The first scene with the golems mowing down the Resistance reploids. But that's in the "censored" American version.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Align on April 23, 2009, 09:49:46 PM
Yeah, that was a good amount while still making the soldiers seem human. I would have paused to think if the Pantheons had bled similarly.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gotham Ranger on April 23, 2009, 11:31:40 PM
The only thing I could think through this entire topic was how terrible of an idea this is.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on April 24, 2009, 03:31:08 PM
Quote
It doesn't matter. Zero got a makeover.

It matters. From X to ZERO designs, arm mounted busters remain arm mounted busters. Zero's bustergun on the other hand is Milan's. Milan's bustergun is an older model than what the rest of the Resistance carries, said older model is designed to link with a Rock Buster mk17 enhanced beamsaber. Omega uses said older model bustergun and also uses a beamsaber enhanced with X-buster technology.

It should also be noted that Zero himself wielded a bustergun during Elf Wars too. Firstly because of his body has apparent memory of using one in the first game. Secondly because, even though he trashed his X2 buster in X5 and his X3 buster hasn't been seen since X6, he succeeded in doing final strike against Omega. With the way the final strike was presented, a beamsaber was not used and his attack was simultaneous with X's.

Quote
The first scene with the golems mowing down the Resistance reploids. But that's in the "censored" American version.

It's the same in the Japanese game. The resistance soldiers there have additional blood as part of their sprite. The bigger blood spatter which you see all across the game was censored out, but the blood in the soldier's sprites was not. So, even though they still bled in the English game, they still bled a lot less.

I think the only time they took some extra effort to censor the sprites was during Hanumachine's infiltration/Resistance base massacre.

http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/Zero/Zero1/Resistance/mmzmiscsoldiersheet.gif
The girl at the bottom is different between Japanese (left) and English (right) versions. Honestly I think the censored one is freakier, what with the weird transparent eye pixels....


Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Blackhook on April 24, 2009, 04:18:14 PM
I wish they would remake MMZ4 and ged rid or fix the chip system....seriously, I never cared about those things
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Fxeni on April 25, 2009, 05:14:39 AM
I actually preferred the chip system to the elf system, considering I like getting S ranks.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on April 27, 2009, 12:06:50 AM
Z4 felt lacking really. Im not sure of what even. maybe its just because it doesnt have as much drawn cutscenes as the others. that and the fact there are almost no supporting characters besides the caravan. (I mean characters like the big 4.)
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Align on April 27, 2009, 12:23:19 AM
I thought the quality and polish went up smoothly as the series progressed, but Z4 wasn't as... fun.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on April 27, 2009, 12:30:44 AM
it really wasnt. I didnt really care for the Z knuckle either. or the fact they just threw away the Sheild boomerang.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gotham Ranger on April 27, 2009, 02:16:00 AM
Z4 left all sorts of crap out, in my opinion. Though, I'm sure someone will pop in and go "NO LOOK SOURCEBOOK" or "NO LOOK JAPANESE BLAH BLAH", I shouldn't need to look at either of those to know just what the hell happened to Harpuia, Leviathan, and Fefnir. Seriously, I played the game twice and I can't recall one mention of why those three just up and disappeared in-game.

From what I understand, Z3 was supposed to be the last game or some crap, which is completely terrible because yeah, sure, big battle, Zero killed Omega in his old body woohoo.. Oh wait, what about Weil? Yeah, completely leave him unchecked. Sorry, just doesn't do it for me.

Then there's the whole Kraft/Neige thing. I despised that bit of the story from the beginning because of how hastily done it was. It didn't fit in just one game. It felt like "Oh, we don't have anything else going on, here lets throw this in".

But hey, thats just me. Still don't wanna see a remake, especially because I'm a firm believer of getting it right the first time.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Sakura Leic on April 27, 2009, 02:28:18 AM
But that's what made the zero-series so unique!

A game where everything you slash at bleeds?! That's just hard-core!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Demonlord/presents/boxblood.png)
This reminds me of this.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2372863/4/Everyday_stories_of_casual_randomness
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on April 27, 2009, 02:54:17 AM
I seriously feel like the only person who believed the big 4 died in Z3 upon noticing their absence in 4.
also, funfact, Z4 is the only Z game I bought new. Z1 and 3 are used.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on April 27, 2009, 05:28:59 PM
You people are seriously crazy for thinking ZERO4 wasn't great, epic and fun. It just stands in the shadow of its predecessor and had to seriously try to be different.

Quote
I shouldn't need to look at either of those to know just what the hell happened to Harpuia, Leviathan, and Fefnir. Seriously, I played the game twice and I can't recall one mention of why those three just up and disappeared in-game.

They vanished after the blinding flash of light that knocked Zero out cold. What did you think happened?

Man, even the most random of n00bs concluded from the games alone that they died in ZERO3. It's only additional sources that confuse the matter, not the game.

Quote
From what I understand, Z3 was supposed to be the last game or some crap, which is completely terrible because yeah, sure, big battle, Zero killed Omega in his old body woohoo.. Oh wait, what about Weil? Yeah, completely leave him unchecked. Sorry, just doesn't do it for me.

Weren't you complaining about ZERO4? This is exactly why 4 was made.

But no, ZERO3 was not the intended last game, it was the intended climax. It's just that they wanted to make Zero1.5 before ZERO4, but decided otherwise by fan demand to see Vile taken care of.

Quote
Then there's the whole Kraft/Neige thing. I despised that bit of the story from the beginning because of how hastily done it was. It didn't fit in just one game. It felt like "Oh, we don't have anything else going on, here lets throw this in".

If you ever read Vile's Incident, you'd know how well the setting of ZERO4 was thought out instead of thrown in just like that.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on April 27, 2009, 05:53:55 PM
Z4 left all sorts of crap out, in my opinion. Though, I'm sure someone will pop in and go "NO LOOK SOURCEBOOK" or "NO LOOK JAPANESE BLAH BLAH", I shouldn't need to look at either of those to know just what the hell happened to Harpuia, Leviathan, and Fefnir. Seriously, I played the game twice and I can't recall one mention of why those three just up and disappeared in-game.
Yeah, I feel the same way on his.  At the least it could have been handled better.  Zero was at the epicenter of the explosion and he only got knocked out.  Harpy and friends were further away and they were all killed.  Maybe the implication is that X saved him?  Or brought him back?  It'd have been nice if they could have shown that ... what with games being a visual medium and all.  There's an entire scene with X saying goodbye; it could fit right in there.

It seems like they wanted to leave it up in the air and see how they felt about it at a later time.  But it makes things ambiguous unless you look it up in a wiki.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 27, 2009, 06:27:09 PM
It's just that they wanted to make Zero1.5 before ZERO4, but decided otherwise by fan demand to see Vile taken care of.

i've always thought Zero4's story would've been better if it was an interquel.

also, i do agree that the Big 3's deaths at the end of Zero 3 was bullshit.

Man, even the most random of n00bs concluded from the games alone that they died in ZERO3.

like this is bullshit. *CLUSH Bombed* you give noobs way too much credit.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on April 27, 2009, 06:38:54 PM
Quote
Maybe the implication is that X saved him?  Or brought him back?  It'd have been nice if they could have shown that ... what with games being a visual medium and all.

The final implication is that the fan-favorite X-bioroids shielded him from the blast.

Quote
It seems like they wanted to leave it up in the air and see how they felt about it at a later time.

Well, the did want to leave it up in the air. Resulting in them being hinted as dying in TELOS, guessed to be protecting humans elsewhere during ZERO4, watching Ragnarok's decline in Vile's Incident and ultimately being dead as of RZOCW.

Quote
But it makes things ambiguous unless you look it up in a wiki.

It makes it ambiguous until you buy MMZOCW. Cause you know about wiki and reliability.

Quote
like this is bullshit. *CLUSH Bombed* you give noobs way too much credit.

No, I'm serious, random n00bs did proclaim they died in ZERO3 by Omega's explosion, which we all shot down using our interview and sourcebook info.

Quote
i've always thought Zero4's story would've been better if it was an interquel.

How does that even work when all of ZERO4 is based on it being the end?

Vile is in charge of Neo Arcadia. Pantheons got replaced. Humans are fleeing from Neo Arcadia. The Big4 and are nowhere to be seen. Neo Arcadia is destroyed, Weil and Zero are killed. The war is over. Humans and Repliroids start to coexist again.

If you mean better as in 'completely different' I'm inclined to disagree even more.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on April 27, 2009, 06:50:16 PM
Quote
The final implication is that the fan-favorite X-bioroids shielded him from the blast.
Then .... shouldn't Zero be behind them? 

Quote
It makes it ambiguous until you buy MMZOCW. Cause you know about wiki and reliability.
::)

This is exactly why people don't play MM for it's story.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Align on April 27, 2009, 07:32:44 PM
I guess logically it makes sense that the Guardians died in the explosion, as it was apparently large enough to warrant Zero being warped out of there by Mother Elf, but you know... Megaman. Don't believe someone is dead until you see their corpse. And even then, they might get better.
No, I'm serious, random n00bs did proclaim they died in ZERO3 by Omega's explosion, which we all shot down using our interview and sourcebook info.
You know Zan it would really help if you told us when you're being sarcastic or cynical, as you use such clean language I can't tell :|
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on April 27, 2009, 08:19:29 PM
Quote
Then .... shouldn't Zero be behind them?

Shielding requires them to actively move, their location is irrelevant. You just shouldn't have blinked during the white out!

Yes, I'm well aware they don't actually do anything.


Quote
Roll Eyes

This is exactly why people don't play MM for it's story.

Well, they didn't intend for you to have you buy MMZOCW in order to know that. That just kinda happened as a result of the series' conclusion writing them into a corner.

For your own amusement, here's the quote from MMZOCW:

Why were the Four Guardians excluded from Zero 4?

AIZU: A lot of people ask that question, but the reason is simply because they all died at the end of Zero 3, shielding Zero from the big explosion.
HONDA: But for some reason they still show up in the booklet for the soundtrack.
AIZU: That was just Nakayama being generous with his drawings. (laughs) In the booklet of the fourth Zero soundtrack, there is an illustration of X standing on a tower with beams coming from the Four Guardians... I didn't ask Nakayama to draw it, though. He kind of already had it drawn. (laughs) Tell us, Nakayama! What point in the timeline is that image from?
NAKAYAMA: I'm not sure... when could it be?
AIZU: The timeframe and events of the illustration were a little fuzzy, so we just kind of threw it in there. (laughs)
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 27, 2009, 10:13:04 PM
How does that even work when all of ZERO4 is based on it being the end?

Vile is in charge of Neo Arcadia. Pantheons got replaced. Humans are fleeing from Neo Arcadia. The Big4 and are nowhere to be seen. Neo Arcadia is destroyed, Weil and Zero are killed. The war is over. Humans and Repliroids start to coexist again.

If you mean better as in 'completely different' I'm inclined to disagree even more.

like you said before, Zero 4 was going to be Zero 1.5. Vile was added in later. if there was a one time enemy in place of Vile, and obviously Zero doesn't die in the end, it would've been fine.

speaking of which, Zero's death in Z4 is even more of a copout than the Guardians' deaths in Z3. Zero 4 is proof that closure sucks. it's a frickin lame way to end the story.

for the record, i hate Zero 4's story, but the gameplay is top notch.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on April 27, 2009, 10:42:18 PM
Quote
like you said before, Zero 4 was going to be Zero 1.5. Vile was added in later. if there was a one time enemy in place of Vile, and obviously Zero doesn't die in the end, it would've been fine.

Not quite, the only thing from Zero1.5 that is part of ZERO4 is the Z-knuckle. Anything else was specifically thought up for ZERO4 in order to lead toward the next series which sets the stage for DASH. The entire plotline is about human and repliroids being brought to the same level and united as well as the recovery of nature. And on Vile's side, the total destruction of nature, a hopeless world, a war without winners or losers, just a bleak land of death. The Neige - Kraft relationship and Operation Ragnarok are all tied around this, climaxing in the destruction of Neo Arcadia, Zero's true motivation and his final glorious moment of heroism.

Quote
speaking of which, Zero's death in Z4 is even more of a copout than the Guardians' deaths in Z3. Zero 4 is proof that closure sucks. it's a frickin lame way to end the story.

Copout? ZERO4 had literally the most epic way to take out a main character ever. After his two revivals, this was entirely necessary to be believable. Despite that imminent death, ZERO shined like a true hero. In contrast to the X-bioroids, he got that final moment, and it was his finest moment.

"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero... I have always only fought for the people I believe in. I won't hesitate... If an enemy appears in front of me, I will destroy it!"

Full circle right there, just perfect.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 27, 2009, 10:51:18 PM
doesn't do a damn thing for me. the buildup was lame. the final boss fight was pretty underwhelming. and the ending is just baw. it shows more of the aftermath of the death than it needs to, and not enough of the death itself. it's a cheap and lazy way to kill off a character. Ciel crying her eyes out alone does not do the job. at least show a picture of Ragnarok crashing with a big explosion. then it might mean something.

at least they acknowledged Zero's death here, unlike Zero 3...
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Align on April 28, 2009, 12:21:50 AM
If you call blowing up with a giant space station a cheap copout, nothing will make you happy.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Rock Bomb on April 28, 2009, 12:44:26 AM
This is relevant
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Demonlord/Rockman%20ZX/MakeitHappen.gif)

Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 28, 2009, 01:44:59 AM
correct me if i'm wrong, but don't you only see a still image of Ragnarok reentering Earth's atmosphere? based off that, how can you be so sure he died from that? he could've survived that somehow. like jumping off the damn thing before hand. and he did survive the same explosion that killed Harpy, Levi, and Fafapalooza.

then again, he was supposed to have died in a boss explosion all the way back in X5.

it's just a lazy way to kill the guy off. it feels like it was a last minute decision for Zero 4 to be The End. the execution is just off.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Night on April 28, 2009, 01:56:23 AM
Which asks the question: What would best tell what is currently happening in the storyline by using a low graphic quality cutscene that is hindered by limited data storage space on the gameboy advance?

A. unidentifiable pieces of a possible orbital space cannon falling to earth?

-or-

B. A Giant Orbital Space Cannon Falling To Earth!
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 28, 2009, 01:58:20 AM
option B because each word is capitalized.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Rodrigo Shin on April 28, 2009, 02:00:58 AM
Kids, remember the saying: there is nothing wrong with Mega Man - just you thinking there is something wrong with Mega Man.

Actually I just came up with it but [tornado fang] that.

Either way I felt Z4 was the most fun of the entire Zero series to me, gameplay-wise. The reason I see people putting Z3 in an altar most of the time, the Omega debacle, is way overrated in my opinion and I liked it better when it was part of Saber Marionette and not Mega Man. In Z4 I got to blow up a lot of freaky looking giant bots who didn't NEED to have oooooh, stoooooooory reeeelevannnnce (yawn) - and well, [tornado fang] me, hold tight:
Quote
This is exactly why people don't play MM for it's story.

I also liked the Z-Knuckle a good lot and I felt the soundtrack was really the best of all the four games.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 28, 2009, 02:03:44 AM
never have i seen so much truth in one post. Omega is REALLY overrated.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zx on April 28, 2009, 02:07:10 AM
They should put the 4 games into one for a remake.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Jericho on April 28, 2009, 02:23:15 AM
never have i seen so much truth in one post. Omega is REALLY overrated.

Agreed, but my reason for putting Z3 over 4 is purely for gameplay reasons. More missions, ultimate foot chip, & Copy X MK II > Z4 for me. XD
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Hypershell on April 28, 2009, 02:35:00 AM
If you call blowing up with a giant space station a cheap copout, nothing will make you happy.
Damn straight.

Z4's death was EASILY the best.  If you want a cop-out, take a look at X5, where Zero dies in a BOSS EXPLOSION with no regard as to proximity.  Even the Guardian deaths in Z3 weren't that bad, despite not even being intended when the game was released, at least then you could say there was a wild card in X and the Mother Elf.  And X1 is only passable due to the lack of attention given to presentation for the era (and the fact that Zero's character as we know him today was not yet established).  Not only does Vile have no business topping him in battle, but by no means should it ever be necessary to self-destruct when you've got a clear shot at the back of someone's head.

In Z4 Zero got a proper heroic sendoff.  A little over-the-top, yes, but kinda necessary to do the best job of convincing the player that it was for real (which is kinda an exercise in futility after the X-series).  That was the only time I ever felt satisfied seeing Zero go.

Either way I felt Z4 was the most fun of the entire Zero series to me, gameplay-wise. The reason I see people putting Z3 in an altar most of the time, the Omega debacle, is way overrated in my opinion and I liked it better when it was part of Saber Marionette and not Mega Man. In Z4 I got to blow up a lot of freaky looking giant bots who didn't NEED to have oooooh, stoooooooory reeeelevannnnce (yawn) - and well, [tornado fang] me, hold tight:
To hell with Omega, I put Z3 on an altar because of FRIKKIN THROW BLADE!!!

Quote
and I felt the soundtrack was really the best of all the four games.
Then again, when you're right, you're right.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Galappan on April 28, 2009, 02:42:33 AM
I don't like 3D games in general so let the Z Series the way it is. Looking at the game & artworks it was truly well planned & made IMO. The least I would want is an Elf War OVA.

I actually played Z4 the most. There's lot of gameplay variety that I can exploit. And after reading every single character dialogue made me realize how good the story of Z4 is.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Rodrigo Shin on April 28, 2009, 03:15:39 AM
To hell with Omega, I put Z3 on an altar because of FRIKKIN THROW BLADE!!!
Before someone gets me wrong, let me just put my quote in perspective:
The reason I see people putting Z3 in an altar most of the time

And that's what I saw from way back when, when Z3 filled the nonexistant plot-hole of X6's copy body (yeah, because X6 made it utterly obvious it was a "copy" body. Whatever), Mother Elf, Guardians, Elf Waaaaaarrghs, what's the matter, too DEEP for you?, etc.

I don't have a problem with people liking it the best of the Zero series (what, am I going to dictate what people think about the games now), but for the reasons above, sorry, that just doesn't cut it for me.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on April 28, 2009, 05:32:10 AM
I try to just forget that X6 has a tie in to the Zero series.  It never worked.  In Z1 Zero wasn't in a capsule at all and didn't look like his X series self.  Moreover, Omega didn't look like X-series Zero either.  It's one of those on-paper things which sounds really good, but just ends up being confusing.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on April 28, 2009, 05:40:56 AM
artistic freedom. plus, X6's sealing is not the one Ciel finds him in. the X6 sealing is the first seal, and the one "shown" in Z1 was the Telos interpreted second seal. remember, in the original seal he was to be asleep for 102 years, to "remove a component". the second seal was supposed to be permanent. as also shown in RTRZ, where Zero's disembodied voice tells Ciel outside of the room to "leave him alone", and questions why she wishes to awaken him Telos itself asserted that he was basically taking himself out of the way.

also, its not jst omega that makes 3 so great, its the story, gameplay, weapons, abilities, and the much cleaner artwork the cut scenes and mugshots are made from, in comparison to 1 & 2. the recoil rod was brilliant, and its ex skills were real good. the story was finally at a climax, and just so potent. explaining almost everything that was needed to know. and the characters were really well played out this time around.
this time around, Harpuia really made me think of the mental aspect of X he is based from. (X's sharpness and wisdom)

and the music was incredible, reflecting the moods really well. Omea is the LASt factor in it all. just a byproduct of the story.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on April 28, 2009, 05:43:42 AM
artistic freedom. plus, X6's sealing is not the one Ciel finds him in. the X6 sealing is the first seal, and the one "shown" in Z1 was the Telos interpreted second seal. remember, in the original seal he was to be asleep for 102 years, to "remove a component". the second seal was supposed to be permanent. as also shown in RTRZ, where Zero's disembodied voice tells Ciel outside of the room to "leave him alone", and questions why she wishes to awaken him Telos itself asserted that he was basically taking himself out of the way.

Quote
It's one of those on-paper things which sounds really good, but just ends up being confusing.

-u-' That's not less confusing.  You don't need to explain it; I always knew what ws up.  But, still ... I call it like I see it.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Align on April 28, 2009, 02:06:21 PM
correct me if i'm wrong, but don't you only see a still image of Ragnarok reentering Earth's atmosphere? based off that, how can you be so sure he died from that? he could've survived that somehow. like jumping off the damn thing before hand.
And surviving atmospheric reentry? Unlikely.
(but not impossible; if they had decided to go that way, at least)
Quote
and he did survive the same explosion that killed Harpy, Levi, and Fafapalooza.
Well, the Mother Elf warped him out. But dying in a boss explosion IS a pretty lame way to go.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on April 28, 2009, 05:43:03 PM
Quote
In Z1 Zero wasn't in a capsule at all and didn't look like his X series self.

Just wondering, X5 works better?

Quote
explaining almost everything that was needed to know.

Except the part where Omega is the sealed Zero and the copy sealed himself again?

Quote
Well, the Mother Elf warped him out. But dying in a boss explosion IS a pretty lame way to go.

It wouldn't be lame if they did it X1 Zero or ZERO1 Phantom style
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on April 28, 2009, 06:26:45 PM
Quote
Just wonder, X5 works better?

Absolutely.  I mean, forget about the fix they made to fit X6's ending in there for a minute and just focus on X5 and Z1.  X5 shows Zero mysteriously disappearing and Z1 shows Zero in a mysterious room in a new body.  Zero only has to mysteriously disappear once in this version ... and who knows what happened to him then?  X5 showed him totally destroyed too, so it makes sense that he might look different after his mysterious repairs.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 28, 2009, 06:54:37 PM
as shitty as X5's ending is, i agree that it does handle Zero's death better than Z4.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on April 28, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
as shitty as X5's ending is, i agree that it does handle Zero's death better than Z4.

Who other than yourself are you agreeing with?
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Fxeni on April 28, 2009, 09:33:51 PM
I guess I'm one of the few that actually liked Z4 a bit more than the others, for whatever reason. I guess I liked the flow of some of the levels a bit more. Also, the music was awesome.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Acid on April 28, 2009, 10:10:45 PM
You and me, FX. You and me.

Kraft/Craft was cool too.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: VixyNyan on April 28, 2009, 10:13:16 PM
Make it the 3 of us. Z4 is what made RPM so popular. ^^
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Acid on April 28, 2009, 10:14:35 PM
I think it was MegaMan that made RPM popular.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: VixyNyan on April 28, 2009, 10:16:56 PM
Especially this trailer (http://video.rockmanpm.com/zero/Rockman%20Zero%204%20(J)%20Promo%20Video.avi), and these (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=zero/rockmanzero4/zknuckle) 2 sections. (http://www.rockmanpm.com/?p=zero/rockmanzero4/secrets)
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Rock Bomb on April 28, 2009, 10:24:57 PM
Arguing over video game plot in this thread
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Satoryu on April 28, 2009, 11:24:55 PM
Who other than yourself are you agreeing with?

Gauntlet. sort of.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Night on April 29, 2009, 01:30:26 AM
I liked zero 4 too. For all reasons...

that's about all I have to say though...
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gauntlet101010 on April 29, 2009, 01:31:32 AM
Gauntlet. sort of.
Well ... not really.  I think X5 handled the Z transition better than X6 and that it all works better if we ignore X6's ending completely.  I like Z4 fine.  It has some problems, but overall it works.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Hypershell on May 11, 2009, 12:08:52 AM
X5 is among the worst ways to kill ANY character, much less Zero.  One who has reached playable status should not die a pointless death.   BOSS EXPLOSIONS DO NOT KILL.  In Z4 Zero was sacrificing himself for the planet, and as cheesy as it sounds, it worked damn well.

Well, now to back-track over the old responses while I was away:

And that's what I saw from way back when, when Z3 filled the nonexistant plot-hole of X6's copy body (yeah, because X6 made it utterly obvious it was a "copy" body. Whatever)
Get equipped with MMZOCW, and update your Fanon definitions.

There is, nor was there ever, any copy body in X6.  The copy body originated in Elf Wars, the interim between Zero's two slumbers.  The fact that he konked out twice was written by Inticreates for the full and sole reason of accommodating the Dark Elf.  Despite ever so fun brainstorms about the contrary, nothing in Z3 is relevant to X-series continuity.

I try to just forget that X6 has a tie in to the Zero series.  It never worked.  In Z1 Zero wasn't in a capsule at all and didn't look like his X series self.  Moreover, Omega didn't look like X-series Zero either.  It's one of those on-paper things which sounds really good, but just ends up being confusing.
Once again, get equipped with MMZOCW.

Inticreates deliberately designed "their" Zero trying to be as different from the X-series as they could get away with, simply for the sake of being able to distinguish their series at a glance.

And as for continuity, Zero actually IS hooked up to some manner of obviously broken down equipment.  Which fits with X6 a hell of a lot better than it does X5 leaving him in a forgotten junk heap.  Moot point since Z3 pulled a switcheroo, though.

Absolutely.  I mean, forget about the fix they made to fit X6's ending in there for a minute and just focus on X5 and Z1.  X5 shows Zero mysteriously disappearing and Z1 shows Zero in a mysterious room in a new body.  Zero only has to mysteriously disappear once in this version ... and who knows what happened to him then?  X5 showed him totally destroyed too, so it makes sense that he might look different after his mysterious repairs.
Except that a blown up pile of crap that used to be a Maverick Hunter shouldn't be salvageable after lying in a hole somewhere for a century.  Some manner of maintenance that fell into disrepair is far more plausible.  Furthermore, the art style is not part of continuity.  Never was.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on May 11, 2009, 12:16:52 AM
Quote
BOSS EXPLOSIONS DO NOT KILL.

Z4 technically was a boss explosion still... technically. >.>

Quote
Get equipped with MMZOCW, and update your Fanon definitions.

There is, nor was there ever, any copy body in X6.  The copy body originated in Elf Wars, the interim between Zero's two slumbers.  The fact that he konked out twice was written by Inticreates for the full and sole reason of accommodating the Dark Elf.  Despite ever so fun brainstorms about the contrary, nothing in Z3 is relevant to X-series continuity.

Rod knows, he's just talking about the theories from before RZOCW. I'm sure you recall a certain person's claims about X6 Zero being in a copy body made by Light.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on May 11, 2009, 12:26:40 AM
BOSS EXPLOSIONS DO NOT KILL. 
tell that to omega. and technically Phantom.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Align on May 11, 2009, 12:27:32 AM
They kill the boss itself, obviously... although that still leaves the Guardians. And that WAS a shitty way to kill them off.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Hypershell on May 11, 2009, 01:39:59 AM
Rod knows, he's just talking about the theories from before RZOCW. I'm sure you recall a certain person's claims about X6 Zero being in a copy body made by Light.
I recall.  But Rod does fall behind on the community events now and then, so I wasn't sure.

tell that to omega. and technically Phantom.
Omega was a retcon during the interim between Z4 and ZX when Inticreates realized, oh snap, they left the players hanging with what the heck happened to the remaining Guardians.  Phantom is a last-ditch attack, the explosion itself does no damage.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Rodrigo Shin on May 11, 2009, 07:57:39 AM
I recall.  But Rod does fall behind on the community events now and then, so I wasn't sure.
'sides what Zan's already said, I was mocking that notion in my post, not advocating it, man. :P From way back when, I always said "please, solid concrete undeniable proof of a copy body in X6" and what I got was "IT'S OBVIOUS!!!!".

Either good job addressing the whole transition deal. Lord knows I've done this more times I can count and it's lost its luster for years now.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gotham Ranger on May 12, 2009, 11:10:10 PM
After replaying all stories in X5 recently, I gotta say X5 was the end all be all to the X Series and the perfect setup. It had throwbacks out the ass, Zero gets completely nerfed, Sigma infects the ENTIRE [tornado fang]ing PLANET. Sure, the game was subpar but hey, it fits alot better than X6's ass ending.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on May 12, 2009, 11:30:16 PM
X6 never was intended as an ending of the series. In that regard, you can't compare it to X5. X6 was a sneakpeak of the future, a sneakpeak of the ending that has yet to be written. Only when it is written can you compare it to X5.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gotham Ranger on May 12, 2009, 11:45:48 PM
Okay, pedantism aside, I still don't like the direction it took after what should've been the end of the series
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on May 13, 2009, 12:15:04 AM
What direction? X6 or X7+? X6 really shouldn't be grouped with a story that wasn't even conceived at the time. X7's sudden shift in direction is almost universally disliked. X6 on the other hand ties in very nicely with X5 and introduced to us two of the most awesome characters of the series.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gotham Ranger on May 13, 2009, 12:16:42 AM
How about either or?
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on May 13, 2009, 05:29:57 AM
What direction? X6 or X7+? X6 really shouldn't be grouped with a story that wasn't even conceived at the time. X7's sudden shift in direction is almost universally disliked. X6 on the other hand ties in very nicely with X5 and introduced to us two of the most awesome characters of the series.
Isoc and Gate I presume? Gate... it really was a pity he never got "repaired" or mentioned again. he was such an awesome character to just keep dead.

Posted on: May 13, 2009, 05:20:54
How about either or?
X6 never took any different "direction" its a direct follow up to X5. the intro stage is Eurasia's ruins themselves. there isnt any "direction" it changed. aside from the half baked Nightmare system, and the introduction of the only character (Besides Wily's various personifications) who was actually able to crack the code on the un-analyzable hunter. Zero. and from it, create a new Virus, a  battle body for himself, a reploid, and even a clone of the original himself.

now X7+ did take a different direction, which I didnt quite like much, but was "meh" X7 completely disregards the previous events of the Earth crisis, with the only mention being that civilization has gotten back on its feet and moved on. gameplay aside, X7 was rather dull. Introducing a new character just for the sake of story and to sell a new "fresh" gimmick, was the smallest problem. the whole fiasco was basically just another X4, except that Axl doesn't die. the comes (storywise) X8, and was perfect in almost every way, however, was WAAAY too different from the previous entries aesthetically, and the story, while attempting to link to X7 with Axl, felt rather mediocre. the redesigns didnt help either.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Zan on May 13, 2009, 01:55:07 PM
Quote
X7 completely disregards the previous events of the Earth crisis, with the only mention being that civilization has gotten back on its feet and moved on.

They arrived at point RD13-29…a special re-development area. A big colony fell long time ago….then everything was destroyed….but the area had since then recovered from the damage. Red and Axl stood on the hill where they could see the developing area…waiting for the right time to strike. Axl was completely enthralled. The moment right before all the action was always so strangely fulfilling. His excitement and tension actually made him very comfortable. Perhaps that was the reason for his existence? To hunt? Perhaps Axl admired the blue repliroid because he could see his own real personality coming out when in pursuit of an Irregular.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Fxeni on May 13, 2009, 05:27:10 PM
Neo Arcadia's existence made more sense before X7 and X8 came out, I find. What with civilization recovering, it kinda defeats the purpose of Neo Arcadia. Yeah yeah, then they came up with the Elf Wars to destroy everything again, but still.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gotham Ranger on May 14, 2009, 01:13:50 AM
Isoc and Gate I presume? Gate... it really was a pity he never got "repaired" or mentioned again. he was such an awesome character to just keep dead.

Posted on: May 13, 2009, 05:20:54
X6 never took any different "direction" its a direct follow up to X5. the intro stage is Eurasia's ruins themselves. there isnt any "direction" it changed. aside from the half baked Nightmare system, and the introduction of the only character (Besides Wily's various personifications) who was actually able to crack the code on the un-analyzable hunter. Zero. and from it, create a new Virus, a  battle body for himself, a reploid, and even a clone of the original himself.
Well, aside from the terrible nightmare bs that I've never thought was good, after replaying X4/5, my problems with X6 are nearly all gameplay issues. The levels are just really really frustrating and meh. So thats the direction I dislike, there. Again, aside from the Nightmare stuff, I really liked that it followed straight up from X5 instead of ignoring it, even though X5 should've ended it.

Quote
now X7+ did take a different direction, which I didnt quite like much, but was "meh" X7 completely disregards the previous events of the Earth crisis, with the only mention being that civilization has gotten back on its feet and moved on. gameplay aside, X7 was rather dull. Introducing a new character just for the sake of story and to sell a new "fresh" gimmick, was the smallest problem. the whole fiasco was basically just another X4, except that Axl doesn't die. the comes (storywise) X8, and was perfect in almost every way, however, was WAAAY too different from the previous entries aesthetically, and the story, while attempting to link to X7 with Axl, felt rather mediocre. the redesigns didnt help either.
While I disagree on X8 being almost perfect, we can all agree on X7 :P

Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on May 14, 2009, 02:20:55 AM
Well, the nightmare system is not what it was intended to be. X6 for all intents and purposes should be considered an unfinished product. Its not like it took any "new direction" either. it was just a game gimmick to be used in that one game.
also, X5 is a TERRIBLE end for the series. it explains how X got the saber in Z1, but thats JUUUSt about it.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gotham Ranger on May 14, 2009, 02:26:53 AM
We'll just agree to disagree. We don't need another 5 page debate over it again :P
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on May 14, 2009, 07:28:52 AM
We'll just agree to disagree. We don't need another 5 page debate over it again :P
BWAHAHAHAH!!!
The irony kills me...
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Gotham Ranger on May 15, 2009, 01:28:21 AM
Good god, that was quite wonderfully placed
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Hypershell on May 20, 2009, 03:28:47 AM
I gotta agree with Flame that X5 blew as a possible series ender.  Such an obvious cop-out as a boss explosion death after the baddie is already beaten leaves a lousy taste in one's mouth.  About the only thing X5 did right, story-wise, was referencing Iris and giving us a glimpse at the kickass viral-infected Zero in the alternate storyline.

And do not get me started on the gameplay flaws.  The title was a lot of experimentation and very little polish.  Ironic that X6, rushed as it was, corrected most of it.

Well, aside from the terrible nightmare bs that I've never thought was good, after replaying X4/5, my problems with X6 are nearly all gameplay issues. The levels are just really really frustrating and meh. So thats the direction I dislike, there. Again, aside from the Nightmare stuff, I really liked that it followed straight up from X5 instead of ignoring it, even though X5 should've ended it.
However X6 remains the only game in which you can (without password-hacking, anyway) obtain everything without beating anyone.  It's a lot of fun and it makes replays a blast, not to mention you can stall Nightmare Zero forever with the ol' Shadow Armor/Ultimate Buster combo.  One of the few things X7 did right was introduce New Game Plus, so the mechanic could be preserved without the ingeniously challenging level design (I mean the CORE level design, not the nightmare crap).

Quote
While I disagree on X8 being almost perfect, we can all agree on X7 :P
Even X7 got a few things right.  Not many, but a few.  For one thing it's the only game that made decent use of a Jedi-esque reflect saber.  Z4 tried, but the fact that they virtually eliminated standard projectiles made it worthless.
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flame on May 21, 2009, 02:58:36 PM
gameplay elemnts aside, X5 was a bad ending. It makes almost no sense in relation to Z1's intro. what they did right was give Zero a nice Death scene. (with his remembering [parasitic bomb])
Title: Re: A Zero remake..
Post by: Flok on May 23, 2009, 02:03:47 AM
How the topic has changed.  >w<

A Zero remake feels just way too early in present time. Capcom could instead focus on Powered Up 2 and/or Maverick Hunter X2. I bet that most people would agree with me on this one.

I cannot even remember X5's ending that well as X5 happens to be my least favorite X gameplay wise. But Z4 really did a great job with like, ending a serie for once. Felt like one giant breath of fresh air to me. Ironic how X5 was intended to do the same at one point in life.

And plot related platform games can give better appeal to them in my opinion.