RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Topic started by: Machina on February 25, 2009, 04:28:59 AM
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Internal consistency, truly thou art worthy of being called "Savior"
To look upon the Rockman series with the eye of a hard science fiction writer should be to sacrifice one's own sanity, but while the writing suffers in spots, internal consistency confers upon the series the ability to be analyzed, to be studied and dissected until even what was unintended comes to light. There is no element in the main sequence of series that the technological basis of an element, save those in the earliest of classic series games, that cannot be traced to an earlier technology or could not reasonably be created with that technological base. (The EXE/Star Force spinoff tends to be a little more shaky at times.)
As with any analysis of fiction, catgirls will die, wild conjectures will be made, and someone will probably analyze things way too deeply and come to the conclusion that Doctor Cain had a sex change mid way through X4 and put his mind in a Reploid body to become Layer.
And to start things off, I'd like to state the conjecture that Doctor Wily's alien hologram in MM2 and Gemini Man are the reason the various viruses in the X era and the cyber elves can behave like they do.
Looking at both the alien hologram and Gemini Man's copy, we can see that both employ some kind of hard light structure, likely employing force fields of some kind. We can determine this easily by running into either at full force and monitoring how much damage is received. Any amount of damage sustained higher than "none" would support this belief. This is important in that both the alien hologram and Gemini Man's double employ a projected energy weapon of some kind. While it is conceivable that the projected weapons fire somehow originates from the source of the hologram, observation would suggest that doing so would be visible to the player in the same way that the projected energy attack itself is, since that's the kind of thing Capcom is quite good with in those days.
Assuming that the projected energy weapon is a compressed plasma weapon similar to Rock's primary weapon, the use of it by the hologram would suggest sophisticated workings all emulated using force fields. The hologram would have to, using a set of actions that are pure speculation, draw in air, compress down the gasses, possibly filtering out that which it doesn't need, charge it, and keep it contained likely using a short lived mobile force field to keep the plasma from diffusing upon firing. (A technique Rock, X, and all buster users also likely use.) For such actions to be emulated using hard light holograms, it is not that far of a leap to a hologram that emulates a small fusion reactor to supply its own power, a purely light-based computer to provide it with independent thought, and even its own force field and holographic emitters to maintain its own structure.
Of course, it's all the ramblings of one fan. ^_^
Thus, I open these doors to the scientifically minded. Any other thoughts on Rockman technology and science?
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How do you make a force field, anyway?
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Maybe the alien hologram and Gemini Man's clone are product of mindwaves coming from Wily's computer and Gemini Man itself messing with Rock's robotical brain. As soon as he overcomes the delusion by killing both, the device stops functioning and/or explodes, killing the Robot Master.
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(The EXE/Star Force spinoff tends to be a little more shaky at times.)
I'm of the opinion that both alternate universes operate on the same physics, at least, highly similar ones. A lot of stuff from EXE/SSR actually explain X-series weirdness like the Virus and 0-Space.
Gemini Man's copy, we can see that both employ some kind of hard light structure, likely employing force fields of some kind.
Yeah, GeminiMan's copies are factually solid, profiles even mention it. I guess it might relate in some fashion to the gemini laser, but I'm not sure. We know he has holographic equipment installed. Also, GeminMan likes mirrors and shiny items (why he dislikes snakes, I dunno.), which says a lot about him; holograms, light, lasers, mirrors. There's an elaborate relation, especially since his entire body looks like a big mirror. If the light used for the holograms is the same as the Gemini laser (Which bounces off solid materials), it would explain why it's a solid figure. (Gemini Laser developed by Dr. Light when he happened upon a special substance that would give a "reaction element" further acceleration. Whatever that means. I would reckon it means the light is just so photon concentrated it becomes solid. Or something.)
alien hologram
The hologram isn't just the alien. The entire room is holographic. The alien simply masks a key component.
Also, if the Gemini's solid nature relates to the Gemini Laser... there'd be no way the alien could employ it; Gemini Laser wasn't invented yet.
Either way, this talk of holograms relates a LOT to teleporation, matter waves, wave lifeforms, cyber lifeforms, and cyberspace/substance world crossovers like the 0 space, more than you'd think.
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(why he dislikes snakes, I dunno.)
Well, they do kill him pretty well. But does he dislike them because they kill him well, or do they kill him pretty well because he dislikes them?
Mystery leads to mystery.
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Yeah, GeminiMan's copies are factually solid, profiles even mention it.
Hey, isn't funny how the first GeminiMan you destroy always conveniently turns out to be the fake one, leaving the real one to keep fighting? Or could the fake one keep going on his own somehow even if you destroyed the real GeminiMan first?
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- Gemini Man likes penguins.
- Penguins lay eggs
- Snakes eat eggs
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- Gemini Man likes penguins.
- Penguins lay eggs
- Snakes eat eggs
A shining example of modern, scientific thought.
Hey, isn't funny how the first GeminiMan you destroy always conveniently turns out to be the fake one, leaving the real one to keep fighting? Or could the fake one keep going on his own somehow even if you destroyed the real GeminiMan first?
Maybe they're both real! ???
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- Gemini Man likes penguins.
- Penguins lay eggs
- Snakes eat eggs
That explain why Geminiman hate snakeman
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Hey, isn't funny how the first GeminiMan you destroy always conveniently turns out to be the fake one, leaving the real one to keep fighting? Or could the fake one keep going on his own somehow even if you destroyed the real GeminiMan first?
You're only hitting the real one. It's not that it reveals itself as fake, rather, the real one getting damaged too much causes the fake to disappear.
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yea that's right ^^ (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockman3vc.html)
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You're only hitting the real one. It's not that it reveals itself as fake, rather, the real one getting damaged too much causes the fake to disappear.
But it doesn't matter which one you hit. It's always the one who takes the 14th hit that disappears. But I guess your explanation works if you don't cheat and use savestates to try hitting the other one as the 14th instead.
yea that's right ^^ (http://www.rockmanpm.com/i/flv/rockman3vc.html)
Those lyrics are okay, but this one is my favorite: http://reggielutionmegamannintendo.ytmnd.com/
And what's up with the colors? Rockman looks like he's using the Hard Knuckle already.
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And what's up with the colors? Rockman looks like he's using the Hard Knuckle already.
Welcome to the "wonderful" palette coloring world of Virtual Console emulation. Dark colors are dark. >U<
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But it doesn't matter which one you hit. It's always the one who takes the 14th hit that disappears. But I guess your explanation works if you don't cheat and use savestates to try hitting the other one as the 14th instead.
Meh, game mechanics >.>
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and someone will probably analyze things way too deeply and come to the conclusion that Doctor Cain had a sex change mid way through X4 and put his mind in a Reploid body to become Layer.
...Oh god this is too much. XD
And to start things off, I'd like to state the conjecture that Doctor Wily's alien hologram in MM2 and Gemini Man are the reason the various viruses in the X era and the cyber elves can behave like they do.
Looking at both the alien hologram and Gemini Man's copy, we can see that both employ some kind of hard light structure, likely employing force fields of some kind. We can determine this easily by running into either at full force and monitoring how much damage is received. Any amount of damage sustained higher than "none" would support this belief. This is important in that both the alien hologram and Gemini Man's double employ a projected energy weapon of some kind. While it is conceivable that the projected weapons fire somehow originates from the source of the hologram, observation would suggest that doing so would be visible to the player in the same way that the projected energy attack itself is, since that's the kind of thing Capcom is quite good with in those days.
Assuming that the projected energy weapon is a compressed plasma weapon similar to Rock's primary weapon, the use of it by the hologram would suggest sophisticated workings all emulated using force fields. The hologram would have to, using a set of actions that are pure speculation, draw in air, compress down the gasses, possibly filtering out that which it doesn't need, charge it, and keep it contained likely using a short lived mobile force field to keep the plasma from diffusing upon firing. (A technique Rock, X, and all buster users also likely use.) For such actions to be emulated using hard light holograms, it is not that far of a leap to a hologram that emulates a small fusion reactor to supply its own power, a purely light-based computer to provide it with independent thought, and even its own force field and holographic emitters to maintain its own structure.
This is pretty intresting but I don't have anything to contribute to this theory.
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Hmm, hard light... any relation to the beamsabers?
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Delayed response powers, go! (Blasted writing stuff. Had to distract me from tech discussions.)
I'm of the opinion that both alternate universes operate on the same physics, at least, highly similar ones. A lot of stuff from EXE/SSR actually explain X-series weirdness like the Virus and 0-Space.
Aye, but things like the Kotobuki disaster in EXE2 creates some iffiness. (Regardless of how awesome it was.)
Yeah, GeminiMan's copies are factually solid, profiles even mention it. I guess it might relate in some fashion to the gemini laser, but I'm not sure.
The Gemini Laser's properties seem to suggest it's simply a directed energy weapon that uses some, for lack of a better way of putting it, funky containment effects to give it its bouncing property. I say funky containment effects because the way the weapon behaves doesn't suggest being an actual light-based weapon, namely its speed and how it reflects off of objects that should absorb it. (I know, I know, game mechanics.) I've always held the conjecture that the reason the Gemini Laser and the clone have never been used at the same time was either due to power requirements, or because the use of the Gemini Laser required mobile force field emitters (as in, emitters to create a moving force field, damn ambiguous English language) that would be in use by the clone.
(Gemini Laser developed by Dr. Light when he happened upon a special substance that would give a "reaction element" further acceleration. Whatever that means. I would reckon it means the light is just so photon concentrated it becomes solid. Or something.)
Sourced or conjecture?
The hologram isn't just the alien. The entire room is holographic. The alien simply masks a key component.
Aye, but the part I was driving at was the alien's solid structure and the use of a projected energy weapon. Though, it IS likely that the rest of the hologram contained a force field to keep stray shots from hitting either the emitter or Doctor Wily.
Also, if the Gemini's solid nature relates to the Gemini Laser... there'd be no way the alien could employ it; Gemini Laser wasn't invented yet.
Aye, that's one flaw with the Gemini Laser theory. But it could overcome that flaw by reversing the flow of technology in that case. The principles of the alien lead to the Gemini Laser being possible. (Which, in both the "Gemini Laser created Gemini Man Copy" and the "Gemini Laser and Gemini Man Copy are separate systems" theories, this flow would help explain.)
Either way, this talk of holograms relates a LOT to teleporation, matter waves, wave lifeforms, cyber lifeforms, and cyberspace/substance world crossovers like the 0 space, more than you'd think.
More than the average person would think. Not everyone here is normal. I'm an SF writer with too much time on his hands. Very little is beyond what I'd think. ^_^
Tremble, feeble mortals, for I wield the laws of physics and a penchant for breaking them for the lulz!
Teleportation might be a good next topic, but Align has already brought up beam sabers.
Hmm, hard light... any relation to the beamsabers?
Well, there are several routes you can go with beam weapons. First is the Star Wars route, which claims that the light sabers they use are a high intensity beam of light that's curved in on itself to make it stop where the end of the blade is. I, however, view this approach as crap. Take a flashlight and wave it at another flashlight. Light does not work that way, but this isn't really surprising because Star Wars writers already fail science forever. Second route is the Gundam route, where the beam sabers are a fountain of charged particles. In Universal Century, this works out because of the Minovsky Particles used. They create a nice blade-shaped field and behave like good little particles. At least it isn't light.
In the Rockman universe, there are no convenient Minovsky Particles to work with. But, as Gemini Man proves, we do have force fields to play with. If we look at the beam sabers used by Zero, Sigma, and Colonel, we see that they have clearly defined edges and maintain their shape except for some bending when swung with considerable force. (Exceptions: The X4 anime intro, where Zero and Colonel's sabers are shown behaving somewhat like they were made of solid fire) This would suggest some kind of solid energy framework, most likely a force field that degrades somewhat toward the end, allowing the "bend" we see,
Now, determining the exact makeup of the blade requires determining how it cuts. If it's due heat, the blade is probably filled with some kind of plasma.
Any thoughts on sabers, Zan? ^_^
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Aye, but the part I was driving at was the alien's solid structure and the use of a projected energy weapon. Though, it IS likely that the rest of the hologram contained a force field to keep stray shots from hitting either the emitter or Doctor Wily.
Oh yeah, I think I meant to bring up something about this in the Ancient Theories topic, but I probably forgot. Anyway, I got into an argument on someone's Youtube video comments about whether the Alien was a hologram emitted by that beer-can-on-a-track and Dr. Wily was standing in the corner operating it the whole time, or whether Dr. Wily was actually riding around the room in an Alien suit that he invisibly jumped out of when it was too badly damaged and ran to the corner to try to repair in a hurry. Have you ever heard of that idea?
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Aye, but things like the Kotobuki disaster in EXE2 creates some iffiness. (Regardless of how awesome it was.)
I think EXE2's reality - cyberspace overlap event is actually the exact same as the 0-Space. Overdose of server radiation merges two worlds. Overdose of Zero Virus merges two worlds. FM-King Cepheus' immense Z-wave emission turning the real world into waves being very similar.
Sourced or conjecture?
Anything before "whatever that means" comes from AF's classic encyclopedia. After that is conjecture on what it means. Keep in mind, as it is a "laser", it should be light based...
Aye, but the part I was driving at was the alien's solid structure and the use of a projected energy weapon. Though, it IS likely that the rest of the hologram contained a force field to keep stray shots from hitting either the emitter or Doctor Wily.
Aye, that's one flaw with the Gemini Laser theory. But it could overcome that flaw by reversing the flow of technology in that case. The principles of the alien lead to the Gemini Laser being possible. (Which, in both the "Gemini Laser created Gemini Man Copy" and the "Gemini Laser and Gemini Man Copy are separate systems" theories, this flow would help explain.)
I'm starting to reckon that what GeminiMan does is literally creating a second version of himself. Not just a fake hologram, but an identical robot with mass, to the point that it becomes irrelevant whichever is real. They're two bodies with one mind and identity. As such both take damage and, when it becomes too hard to sustain two, one just disperses the other and takes over as the main body. An extended variation of this would apply to his ability to create more duplicates in Super Adventure.
By comparison, the alien hologram isn't anything solid, just an image overlaying a holographic protector with weapons-mounted. This projector being protected from all attacks but the Bubble Lead by whatever means necessary.
Teleportation might be a good next topic, but Align has already brought up beam sabers.
Well, I mentioned teleporation as its the primary display of turning matter into data and data into matter. GeminiMan's copies would be no different.
Any thoughts on sabers, Zan? ^_^
I'd go with the explanation Gundam gives. Aside from the fact that these are "beam" sabers instead of "light" sabers, Gundam, like many sci-fi series, does seem to be an inspiration for RockmanX. Minovsky-particles not being mentioned doesn't really matter. Just some equivalent has to be in use. Like in every Gundam series that is not UC.
Oh yeah, I think I meant to bring up something about this in the Ancient Theories topic, but I probably forgot. Anyway, I got into an argument on someone's Youtube video comments about whether the Alien was a hologram emitted by that beer-can-on-a-track and Dr. Wily was standing in the corner operating it the whole time, or whether Dr. Wily was actually riding around the room in an Alien suit that he invisibly jumped out of when it was too badly damaged and ran to the corner to try to repair in a hurry. Have you ever heard of that idea?
http://www.themmnetwork.com/wiki/index.php?title=Alien
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You're all nuts.
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You're all nuts.
:o :o :o
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You're all nuts.
Says he who complained about fighting poses. At least this is part of the plot.
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Beam weapons. Here's my take on it. They're essentially plasma torches. High temperature high energy particles. They're encased in a magnetic field which of course keeps them from frying the wielder and just exploding.
The magnetic field is strong enough to contain plasma but not strong enough to prevent it from passing through solid matter though it does give it some resistance. When it strikes something the magnetic field also passes through exposing the object to the plasma beam inside which burns right through it.
This would make sense given how they behave. Beam weapons bounce off each other (magnetic fields repelling), and reflect some other weapons (possibly also plasma based), and may take more than one swing to pass through something. If you didn't leave it on one spot long enough it wouldn't do as much damage, so a slow strike would spend more time dwelling on the material it's cutting and do more damage. Also explaining how some attacks do more damage than others.
A twist on beam weapons in Megaman seems to be that they don't sustain shape for long. In Zero's case his saber usually isn't visible when he's not attacking and if you look closely you can see it flicker out after he takes his final swing. My guess is it can only maintain its shape for a short time, thus the user would quickly turn it on only to attack then turn it right back off.
I'm willing to bet that busters work on the same principle but rather than bother with magnetic fields just concentrate a ball of the stuff and fire it off.
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Says he who complained about fighting poses. At least this is part of the plot.
Yeah, but the fighting poses are still mostly worthless for robots who mix it up close range at least once in a while. Why the heck would humanoid, class SA hunters be imbeciles at hand combat?
*realizes no one cares* -u-'
Uh, but back on topic. About the plasma weapons thing: I always thought that Zero's saber changing shape when he swings it to be a stylistic depiction, rather than the blade actually curving or changing its length.
As to the busters, if you're going to utilize plasma as a weapon, then you have to have some kind of magnetic containment regardless of whether your using the stuff as a sword or a ludicrously large X-Buster blast. If you didn't use magnetic containment, all that would come out of X's buster would be a big cloud of gas. It would be really hot gas with the electrons stripped from their atoms, but still pretty useless as a range weapon. You'd have to have some kind of EM field to force the plasma into a ball shape.
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Writer's block. Time to fish out my pseudo-scientist hat.
I think EXE2's reality - cyberspace overlap event is actually the exact same as the 0-Space. Overdose of server radiation merges two worlds. Overdose of Zero Virus merges two worlds. FM-King Cepheus' immense Z-wave emission turning the real world into waves being very similar.
The thing is, data is an abstract concept. Without a medium, there can be no data, similar to how you can't have a drawing without something to draw on. Now, in the Classic/X/Zero-verse, the existence of a non-physical medium for the storing and retrieving of data becomes a canon fact as of the middle of the X-series, with its existence being likely from the beginning of the Reploid species. This, of course, being the DNA Soul. The events of Xtreme 2 are enough evidence to suggest that DNA souls exist in the material universe as some kind of energy-based storage medium containing the "genetic" data of the Reploid as well as their memories.
In the EXE/RNR-verse, prior to Kotobuki, and after the fact, all data was stored on physical mediums, and cyberspace is a rather abstract representation of the data being stored on those mediums. However, once RNR came into the picture, we had the AM and FM beings, which, like the DNA Soul, represent a non-material medium for the storage of data that exists within the physical universe. However, the wave beings also possess another quality that makes them very relevant to the Kotobuki incident: the ability to convert matter into energy (granted, while ignoring the ratio given by the famous relativity equation) as witnessed by the transformation of humans into wave entities. Now, we know that the creations of humans in the EXE/RNR-verse are compatible with the wave entities, given how RNR Rockman entered physical systems as an Earth-made navi would, so it's not too far of a stretch to make the assumption that the Kotobuki incident ended up re-creating the matter to wave transfer process. Despite the two hundred year gap, we don't see that much technological progress in the EXE to RNR transition. Particularly in the operation of computer devices, they just get smaller.
Keep in mind, as it is a "laser", it should be light based...
If it is, in fact, light it would move at the speed of light. It's likely a similar case to the Star Wars case of turbolasers not being lasers.
Where problems occur is the question of which is the true Gemini Beam: Its representation in the games, or Super Adventure Rockman's take? (Which, I admit, I've only seen from the opening, but it appears to behave like a true laser.)
I'm starting to reckon that what GeminiMan does is literally creating a second version of himself. Not just a fake hologram, but an identical robot with mass, to the point that it becomes irrelevant whichever is real. They're two bodies with one mind and identity. As such both take damage and, when it becomes too hard to sustain two, one just disperses the other and takes over as the main body. An extended variation of this would apply to his ability to create more duplicates in Super Adventure.
This is actually another viable explanation for Gemini Man. However, if Gemini man has another fully operational body, sustaining them both isn't really a problem any more than sustaining one body, destroying one would be a matter of structural damage. Thus, dispersing a body that you spend the energy and materials you created wouldn't exactly make sense. There's also the problem of two brains, which while doubling his processing power, would inevitably create problems.
Let's say Gemini Man creates an identical robot body, doubling every element of his design. For this body to function at the same capacity, all of its autonomic functions would have to be active. Its core would be outputting the same energy, and to control its body, the clone would be thinking, just like the original. Now, this works well because he's a perfect copy of Gemini Man, and thus would behave the same way. However, without some kind of infrared or radio communication between the two, the two may have completely different reactions to the same stimulus and thus step on each others toes, so to speak. Simple enough, add a radio or infra-red modem. This, however, creates a slight reaction time lag, because both copies have to transmit their reactions to the stimulus and come to a solution of what to do. This takes time, which is a precious commodity when you have a homicidal blue robot wanting to kill you and eat your soul to gain your special power. In either case, either coordinating actions or leaving the potential for conflicting reactions, with the addition of more clones, Gemini Man would run face-first into the brick wall of diminishing returns in regards to his combat effectiveness.
Now, there is another option with the perfect clone idea. Only have one Gemini Man "thinking" at a time, and controlling the others via said radio or infra-red modem like puppets. In this case, however, Gemini Man would require a very powerful brain to control another body in addition to his own, and if his currently active body is the one that's destroyed, it creates a potentially lethal lag during which the puppet body's brain has to boot up. There's also an issue with the more powerful processor: To gain that huge boost in performance, Doctor Wily would likely have to overclock the hell out of Gemini Man's processor, which would create huge amounts of heat. This... actually isn't too much of an issue, because it provides an alternate reason for the spikes on his helmet: heat radiators.
... Which creates the amusing mental image of Gemini Man catching a heat seeking missile with his face...
However, even with the hologram conjecture, the question of which Gemini Man is the real one is still irrelevant. It's a principle I like to call Schrodinger's Copy. Another good name would be the Naruto Effect, given how clone battles behave in that series.
Put simply, in a work of fiction, if you are facing four copies of an individual, and you fire three shots at three of those copies, each shot will hit one of the fakes. Similar to the cat in the box that is both alive and dead until the box is opened and the cat is observed, until the shot is fired and connects in a killing blow, each of those images is both real and fake.
The hologram also works with Gemini Man's hatred and weakness to snakes.
Snakes possess keen non-visual senses, and it's likely that Snake Man and his Search Snakes possess IR sensors. Now, a hard light hologram likely possesses a very different infrared image than a solid Robot, and thus a snake would be able to tell which is the real and which is the fake if it is indeed holographic. As for the physical weakness...
... I'll need to think more on that. For now, all I can think of is "LOL game mechanics"
Maybe some kind of psychosomatic reaction?
By comparison, the alien hologram isn't anything solid, just an image overlaying a holographic protector with weapons-mounted. This projector being protected from all attacks but the Bubble Lead by whatever means necessary.
Heh, forgot about the little thing floating around the room after the hologram ends. So it likely does contain the plasma cannon.
The question would be "why Bubble Lead?" (Without resorting to "LOL game mechanics")
We know the projector in the ceiling is a holographic projector, and while it's protected from attack, it also shuts down when the alien is defeated. (On an unrelated note, it's possible the projector played a role in the prototyping and creation of Wily's Robot Masters at the time. The room does look like it would be well suited to that purpose.) While it is possible this is just narrative law in effect, if we look at the weapons Rock possessed at the time we notice something: Bubble Lead is a transparent/translucent looking sphere, relevance being that curved, transparent or translucent surfaces refract light very well.
Jumping into the realm of thinking way too much, each time the bubble hits the alien, the screen flashes. Sure, it's a general damage effect, but in this case it could be thought of as refracted light being scattered about and the projector having to compensate, and to do so, the computer running the system would have to think a bit harder, and generate a little more heat. Eventually, all of this compensation for the effects of the Bubble Lead would overheat the system, causing it to break, thus the loud whine after the battle while the holographic effects are ending.
Doesn't address if it's the orb or the big dome that's projecting the alien, but meh. ^_^
You're all nuts.
You say that like it's a bad thing. ^_^
A twist on beam weapons in Megaman seems to be that they don't sustain shape for long. In Zero's case his saber usually isn't visible when he's not attacking and if you look closely you can see it flicker out after he takes his final swing. My guess is it can only maintain its shape for a short time, thus the user would quickly turn it on only to attack then turn it right back off.
That might actually be a power issue.
Using the Zero example, his saber seems to be separated from his main power source when being wielded, thus returning it to his back, likely to recharge, when not in use.
Yeah, but the fighting poses are still mostly worthless for robots who mix it up close range at least once in a while. Why the heck would humanoid, class SA hunters be imbeciles at hand combat?
*realizes no one cares* -u-'
I need to find that topic...
Uh, but back on topic.
Leverage and force are still science. ^_^
About the plasma weapons thing: I always thought that Zero's saber changing shape when he swings it to be a stylistic depiction, rather than the blade actually curving or changing its length.
True, the X6 sprites for Zero have his saber remaining straight, and the 3D games tend toward the rigid blade.
I suppose stylistic change and technological progress are both equally likely. ^_^
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The thing is, data is an abstract concept. Without a medium, there can be no data, similar to how you can't have a drawing without something to draw on.
I really don't see why there has to be a physical medium... after all, if both classic>DASH and EXE>SSR operate on the same physics, we still have ZERO's Cyberspace, the Program World which encompasses all Substance World phenomena in the form of a program. (Different from the X/EXE cyberspace, which is ZERO4's Transfer Circuit; both the internet and physical storage mediums) ZERO3's cyberspace is a separate dimension of reality and is the space where all data inevitably ends up.
DNA Soul
DNA Soul = Repliroid's operational [mobilization/movement] DNA program = Repliroid Soul = Repli Soul = Cyber Elf = Program Life Object = Repliroid Personality Program
DNA Program
Program that makes up the characteristics of a repliroid. Zero's Learning ability utilizes this, but Axl's ability to completely copy a repliroid is rare.
DNA Soul
A repliroid's operational [mobilization/movement] DNA program that has been pulled out. It appears that Berkana took the souls from the erased repliroids and inserted them for use in the bodies of Iregulars.
Erasure
The phenomenon where a repliroid's operation program disappears all the sudden. An erased repliroid loses all consciousness, reduced to being like so much scrap iron. During the Nightmare Incident, a phenomenon similar erasure happened to Isoc.
Now, in the Classic/X/Zero-verse, the existence of a non-physical medium for the storing and retrieving of data becomes a canon fact as of the middle of the X-series, with its existence being likely from the beginning of the Reploid species. This, of course, being the DNA Soul. The events of Xtreme 2 are enough evidence to suggest that DNA souls exist in the material universe as some kind of energy-based storage medium containing the "genetic" data of the Reploid as well as their memories.[
Well, Repliroid Souls are Cyber Elves. Cyber Elves which live in Cyberspace. Cyber Elves which have bodies that are created with pure energy in the image of elves... Cyber Elves which are based on Sigma Virus... Sigma Virus is also an energy based existence that can be transmitted by radio-transmission, X/EXE cyberspace and even just move through the air itself without the use of any noticeable medium.
Sigma Virus's origin is Wily's creation of Zero and putting it inside of Zero. The Repliroid Soul has its origin with X's nearly human soul. However, Zero too has a soul like that, a Cyber Elf, hence his existence as a Biometal (Which have Cyber Elf-like abilities). Furthermore, we also can't state with certainty that robots that predate X did not have souls. Those souls might not have been as much like a human as X, but they'd be souls nonetheless.
Either way, the existence of energy-bodied programs has no importance to Kotobuki.
Kotobuki
The Gospel Server's radiation has the same effect as Zero Virus. Cyberspace materializes in the real world. This is not the ZERO cyberspace, rather, its the X/EXE cyberspace. As in, it's the internet, in a setting in which the internet can connect to nearly every single machine, wireless even. Either the data was always being transmitted wireless, or the radiation is causing it to be. I'd just like to note that by SSR's account, a true wireless worldwide connection isn't established until the Sattelite Admins appear; EM-lifeforms are responsible, before that, wireless transmission was much more similar to what the real world has.
To mention a related concept; teleportation. It's turning a material object into data and transmitting it, only to materialize it elsewhere. As ZERO4 shows, wireless transmission is used here, using the X/EXE Cyberspace. Hence, by using teleportation, a Repliroid can actually enter the X/EXE Cyberspace.
The hologram also works with Gemini Man's hatred and weakness to snakes.
Snakes possess keen non-visual senses, and it's likely that Snake Man and his Search Snakes possess IR sensors. Now, a hard light hologram likely possesses a very different infrared image than a solid Robot, and thus a snake would be able to tell which is the real and which is the fake if it is indeed holographic. As for the physical weakness...
... I'll need to think more on that. For now, all I can think of is "LOL game mechanics"
I guess with the "Search" Snake being his weakness, I guess we are indeed dealing with holograms. (Solid ones controlled by the main, mind you.) The intended function is actually that the snakes uncover the real one, hence his dislike for them. LOL game mechanics for this being improperly portrayed as just extra damage.
Schrodinger's Copy.
Combined with Schrodinger's Replacement?
In other words, LOL game mechanics.
Doesn't address if it's the orb or the big dome that's projecting the alien, but meh. ^_^
I'd say the dome is responsible for the holograms. The orb being related in some fashion to have the dome create the alien around it, with "damaging" the alien messing up both the orb and the dome.
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The intended function is actually that the snakes uncover the real one, hence his dislike for them. LOL game mechanics for this being improperly portrayed as just extra damage.
Noooooooooooooo! My precious damage table cannot be a lie!!!
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I guess with the "Search" Snake being his weakness, I guess we are indeed dealing with holograms. (Solid ones controlled by the main, mind you.) The intended function is actually that the snakes uncover the real one, hence his dislike for them. LOL game mechanics for this being improperly portrayed as just extra damage.
I was just replaying Power Fighters and noticed that if you fire at Gemini Man after he doubles himself, your shots will pass through one of the doubles. If you fire at the other one, your shots will actually hit. Along with the evidence already pointed out, this does seem to suggest that Gemini Man employs some kind of "solid" hologram technology.
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Except when he doesn't like in your example?
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I also discovered something strange about GeminiMan in the Genesis version. If you finish off a certain GeminiMan first (I think it's the one that jumps out first rather than the one that stands still for a while), the shot that destroyed it doesn't actually lower GeminiMan's HP, even though it appears to take some notches off the bar. Hitting GeminiMan again will reveal his true HP. So typically you'll randomly see your first strike after destroying the first GeminiMan as not affecting his energy at all, but what's really happening is that you're taking off the amount that your last shot only appeared to take off. If you switch to a more powerful weapon after the clone is destroyed, your next hit will appear to take off the difference between the two weapons' damages. And if you switched to a less powerful weapon, it would actually raise GeminiMan's meter by the difference, just like when certain Rockman 2 bosses get refilled by certain weapons. If you switched to Top Spin after beating the first clone with Search Snake, GeminiMan would appear to regain 5 units, since Search Snake does 5 and Top Spin does 0. But Top Spin is really just revealing what GeminiMan's internal HP was due to the bug. Whether this confirms which GeminiMan is "fake" is up to you, though.
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Except when he doesn't like in your example?
Why must you take everything that matters to me?! :|
... :)
So, he's solid, but occasionally not.
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Okay, new line of questioning:
What's with the hand/buster transformation? Are they just dematerialized somehow or do they fold into compartments inside the busters?
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And why does Megaman keep transforming his hand into a gun and back into a hand every time he fires? Wouldn't it be more efficient to just leave it as a gun all the time until he needs to climb a ladder?
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Okay, new line of questioning:
What's with the hand/buster transformation? Are they just dematerialized somehow or do they fold into compartments inside the busters?
I've always thought that Rock's buster transformation was mechanical (ala Transformers), whereas X's buster transformation was a matter/energy dematerialization. I know X's transformation has been shown both ways (mechanical in the X3 intro and dematerialization in the Command Mission opening and select Capcom commercials). Zero's buster sprite from X6 seems to fit more with the matter to energy or nanite transformation idea, so why not X also?
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The most common way it's handled seems to be to just cut away for a moment and the resident Megaman has his buster ready, thus sidestepping the issue. Cutscenes have tried to present it 2 ways though. Mechanical or dematerialization. Most seem to have the buster appear in a sort of flash of light, but at least one animation did show X physically transforming his buster by retracting his hand, extending a barrel and extending the length of his forearm.
Personally I take this as an extreme slow motion shot. I'm pretty sure all busters form by mechanical means, but they transform so quickly that the human eye simply can't see it and all you notice is a streak of light as parts shift around and exchange places and suddenly there's a gun where a hand was.
It's not unreasonable. In ZX the ZX buster and the ZX saber are actually the same weapon, which transforms quickly between buster and saber.
If you count Day of Sigma it lends creedance to the mechanical theory as once X detached his buster he was unable to form it on the other arm. Indicating that he had to be carrying physical parts for his buster in his body and without them he couldn't form one on the other hand. (as it seems to be assumed now that X and Megaman can form a buster on either hand, but sparing a few armor upgrades for X not one on both arms at the same time.)
So I'd say there's also some micro transformation going on but not entirely nanotech, but the parts are small enough to move through a bot's arms and swap between them. I'm willing to bet the busters are stored near the core of the body to quickly deploy to either arm that needs to fire at the time.
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The most common way it's handled seems to be to just cut away for a moment and the resident Megaman has his buster ready, thus sidestepping the issue. Cutscenes have tried to present it 2 ways though. Mechanical or dematerialization. Most seem to have the buster appear in a sort of flash of light, but at least one animation did show X physically transforming his buster by retracting his hand, extending a barrel and extending the length of his forearm.
Personally I take this as an extreme slow motion shot. I'm pretty sure all busters form by mechanical means, but they transform so quickly that the human eye simply can't see it and all you notice is a streak of light as parts shift around and exchange places and suddenly there's a gun where a hand was.
It's not unreasonable. In ZX the ZX buster and the ZX saber are actually the same weapon, which transforms quickly between buster and saber.
If you count Day of Sigma it lends creedance to the mechanical theory as once X detached his buster he was unable to form it on the other arm. Indicating that he had to be carrying physical parts for his buster in his body and without them he couldn't form one on the other hand. (as it seems to be assumed now that X and Megaman can form a buster on either hand, but sparing a few armor upgrades for X not one on both arms at the same time.)
So I'd say there's also some micro transformation going on but not entirely nanotech, but the parts are small enough to move through a bot's arms and swap between them. I'm willing to bet the busters are stored near the core of the body to quickly deploy to either arm that needs to fire at the time.
So, would you question the existence of nano-tech or matter/energy tech in a reploid's body? How do you suppose self-repair systems operate, then? Or what about Axl's pistols? They have no visible holsters. Where do they come from?
While we're on the question of reploid physiology, how would you account for reploid DNA? Is it analogous to human DNA, or simply an abstract term for computer code?
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How is Megaman able to jump on and then ride on top of underwater air bubbles?
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how does the wall kick work? in the manga he has jet thrusters in his back, but I dont know bot the games.
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You can kick off walls in real life. Try it.
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X freakin goes back towards the wall in mid air after he kicks off of it. i cant do that.
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X freakin goes back towards the wall in mid air after he kicks off of it. i cant do that.
You can with these
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5641/nikepzl.jpg)
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sweet. so X wears those under his robo boots?
Posted on: March 13, 2009, 08:32:51 PM
And Zero probably has a red variation right? awesome. Light's got taste. and Wily... well... is wily.
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I'm pretty sure those red holes in the robot's legs are the thrusters, which gives X the ability to dash because it thrusts him foward, and make large superhuman leaps.
And the bubbles in Tenguman's stage, those are airtight bubbles, so you would put a boulder on top of them, and they would not pop unless spiked.
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Megaman classic also has those holes, and they dont do [parasitic bomb] for him.
also, they are for dashing.
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Why is it that some spikes are an instant kill, while others just hurt? Could it be the vintage "some spikes are mono-molecular and some are just regular spikes" or the favored "the insta-kill spikes are electrified" explanation?
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the ones that arnt instant kill just wernt sharpened enough. (thats what happens when you try to cut price by ordering from cheaper sellers)
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Most seem to have the buster appear in a sort of flash of light, but at least one animation did show X physically transforming his buster by retracting his hand, extending a barrel and extending the length of his forearm.
I know the TV show definitely went the mechanical route for guns, although sometimes there were still size issues that made it unbelievable (How does Roll squeeze a toaster oven through her arm?). All the robots wore big gun barrels on their wrists all the time that their hands folded into; if Game MegaMan works like that, it must be that his barrel looks more like part of a big glove. Strangely, I remember that sometimes the show's MegaMan had a little nozzle emerge from the barrel like in the games, but usually it was just wide open like Bass's Buster. Maybe that was how he made the blasts more focused sometimes or something. I'd have to watch the series again to be sure. I just know that Rush always glowed yellow when he morphed into something, even when it was the simple jet transformation where he just folds his legs.
Megaman classic also has those holes, and they dont do [parasitic bomb] for him.
Ha ha, but I think I read somewhere that those thrusters let him land safely from long falls, like how the "heel springs" were supposed to work in Portal.
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I always thought they were just there on Rock to look cool.
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I didn't rule out nanotech in reploids, just I don't think the buster uses it or needs it. I tend to think of busters as old reliable tech, that doesn't have much need of change except to add more and more power to it.
On the feet things. I always assumed they were micro thrusters of some sort that allowed Megaman to change direction in mid jump. Not enough to fly with, but enough for increased directional control. X's are just more powerful since they can push him right back into a wall while he's still gaining upward momentum from pushing off against it.
Bass has them too and his allow him to double jump.
Though they were probably originally there as a leftover from Astro Boy who clearly influences Megaman's design strongly. In the manga Megaman even has a panel on his chest exactly where Astro does.
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the ones that arnt instant kill just wernt sharpened enough. (thats what happens when you try to cut price by ordering from cheaper sellers)
In that case, Needle Man must have gotten a bad deal since his head spikes don't instakill Mega Man. Poor Needle Man. He can blast through solid concrete, but can't bust up a 4'4" robot.
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Isn't his special weapon also literally useless except as a boss weakness?
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Isn't his special weapon also literally useless except as a boss weakness?
What? Needle Cannon? Heck no. It is a vulcan gun with a wider field of fire than the Buster.
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A weapon like that would have been more useful if there were any Gabyolls or Springers or anything low to the ground like that in the game, because then you would hit them with every other shot. But it is still nice to give your thumb a break, unless you already have an auto-fire button.
If it's The Wily Wars, though, the Needle Cannon also continues onward after defeating an enemy rather than getting absorbed, so it's slightly more useful, yay!
Also it fools bosses that jump whenever you press the fire button, because with Needle Cannon, you don't have to let go of the button to keep on firing, heh heh.
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What does Dr. Light hdo with the robots after he repairs them and why aren't there robots in the X series? Is X so complex that there is no way to replicate him completely? I know X is an advanced robot but still I would believe that someone in the X series had at least created their own advanced robot that is not a reploid or something on par with X.
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That was kind of the whole point of the X series. All Reploids are replicas of X, Sigma being the closest to a perfect reproduction.
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I don't think Sigma was any closer to being a perfect reproduction than many others. I vaguely recall reading about him being the first model to have a maverick-causing glitch fixed, though.
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I don't think Sigma was any closer to being a perfect reproduction than many others. I vaguely recall reading about him being the first model to have a maverick-causing glitch fixed, though.
Sigma is the first Repliroid. He just got the latest circuitry and therefore is presumed to be free of any problems.
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So there can never be a true replica of X? I guess there can only be one X but as for X's limitless potential, what will X grow into if ever reaches that potential?
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how could you ever reach what is limitless?
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Technically, his limitless potential doesn't preclude a perfect copy of him being made. It just hasn't happened yet.
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Technically, his limitless potential doesn't preclude a perfect copy of him being made. It just hasn't happened yet.
Technically, there is a perfect copy of X. Assuming the blue prints seen at the beginning of Rockman ZERO4 are those of X, Ciel really managed to exactly dublicate him. The problem is, while the physical form and inner circuitry of Master X might have been the same as that of Original X, his soul certainly wasn't, and that soul is part of what grands the limitless potential. If Copy-X wasn't told right away what exactly he was and what his namesake had achieved, with the same amount of time to develop his character, he might have become just like Original X.
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Basically the same way clones are handled.
DNA determines your anatomy and body structure but your personality is forged through experiences.
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Well, I'd say the bigger achievement in all this would be that she apparently managed to create Copy-X by just looking pictures of X. I don't recall if Ciel was already alive when X left Neo Arcadia to seal the Darkelf with the power of his body, but she managed to do it anyway, without Thomas Right's blueprints. That is quite an amazing feat actually. Then again, she was genetically reinforced in order to do such tasks. She's a designer baby genius.
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He didn't go through life like everyone did, he believed himself to be the perfect copy of X but in the end he deluded himself by saying that he was the perfect copy, rather than just grow thorough his own experiences as himself not just a copy.
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Well, I'd say the bigger achievement in all this would be that she apparently managed to create Copy-X by just looking pictures of X. I don't recall if Ciel was already alive when X left Neo Arcadia to seal the Darkelf with the power of his body, but she managed to do it anyway, without Thomas Right's blueprints. That is quite an amazing feat actually. Then again, she was genetically reinforced in order to do such tasks. She's a designer baby genius.
Not quite. Ciel, at age 9, watched and mimicked the experiments that were used a hundred years ago to create the Big4 and managed to make a perfect copy of X. She's repeating an experiment, not watching pictures of X. Furthermore, she might have been a human with altered DNA, but even without that altered DNA she is a prodigy, her ancestry is a line of scientists that worked on studying Zero and creating Cyber Elves.
From MMZOCW:
This laboratory is also where Ciel's ancestors studied Cyber-elves, and where Weil created Omega.
humans with altered DNA.
Ciel was just one of these children and was a prodigy.
Just by watching and mimicking the experiments, she somehow managed to produce Copy X.
She was nine years old at the time.
They used the same methods to create the Four Guardians.
The Four Guardians, who were created by using the same methods used in creating Copy X.