RockmanPM Forums
Rockman & Community => Rockman Series => Topic started by: The Great Gonzo on November 24, 2008, 04:47:00 AM
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I am a grand overthinker, which probably contributes to my insomnia--but I digress. We've already seen Dreamwave's 4-issue "series", Mr. Shin's excellent summaries of NAdM, and heard those rumours about a cancelled Marvel series based on Ruby-Spears MM. (It either never existed or was vaporware. I believe Mandi's already taken that rumour down)
I recently relocated my Archie Sonic comics so that I could actually read 'em (a flimsy pile on the corner of a cluttered desk set against the wall? Not terribly conductive to anything), and seeing how there's been no "real" MM comic series (NAdM is interesting, yes, but ye gods...THE PLOT) and that only the .EXE manga was brought to the U.S...you can see where this is going, don't you?
An Archie adaptation of Megaman could go one of several ways:
1.) A straight adaptation of the games--like Ikehara, only super-condensed.
2.) A more...interesting take on Megaman, like what they did with Sonic the Hedgehog.
3.) A continuation of Ruby-Spears Megaman, hopefully utilizing some or all of the points established therein (don't look at me like that).
HOWEVER--as much as I'd like to theorize, I have one major beef with Archie: they're way, WAY too kiddie-oriented. The thing is, I can't name a single mature Archie production. "Mature" meaning "competence in both storytelling and character execution". "Kiddie-oriented" meaning "desperately trying to appeal to the 'tween' audience without realizing that some of 'em have brains".
Look at the rampant character and story derailment present in their Sonic series. Now compound that with Capcom's glorious canon track record, and you've got a horrific mess of a comic that couldn't find its own ass with both hands and a road map. Now, I'm not saying that it would be inevitable, because I do have SOME faith in Archie (I like their Sonic X). But, I've sat through enough Sally the [sonic slicer] and two-second "epic battles" to know that the chances of their MM being good aren't that great.
But stepping away from the Archie bashing...Let's talk about Option 2. The tone and settings of the comic, plus how much the characters look like themselves, all depends on when it was made. 1997 onward, it'd be pretty in-line with the games (and probably with the acid trip settings of MM8). By then, the tone of Classic MM had been firmly established.
1987-1996 is a different story. Archie could have taken far more liberties with MM then, since everyone else short of Capcom of Japan did anyway. I keep imagining elements that children of that era who weren't total shut-ins (like me) would find intimidating and challenging, like junkyards with huge "KEEP OUT" signs (Surely I won't wake up to find half of me in a Doberman's mouth!). Unfortunately, that time period leaves the project vulnerable to massive amounts of TOTALLY RADICAL. Remember the 90s? Remember those brightly-colored posters featuring kids who could easily be the disciples of Flava Flav? Now superimpose Megaman in there. Not so pretty, huh? In mild doses, TR could simply be cheesy and a fond reminder of the 90s. Heavy doses, you get the poor man's Wayne's World. With robots.
I could elaborate on Option 3, but it's getting late and I don't want my computer licensed revoked AGAIN. Anyone care to discuss?
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Hmmm, interesting idea Gonzo. Granted, you are correct in that an Archie MM adaptation could be way too kiddie, but I would be interested in seeing where exactly they went with it. Personally though, if it was Classic Megaman, then I'd have no problem with the kiddie-ness, provided the stories were somewhat interesting.
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Option 2 sounds kind of hard to swallow, though option 3 sounds pretty good. Who knows what crazy adventures the R.S cast would have gotten into...
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I honestly think that the best way to follow would be a continuation of the games' plots, including new characters from new releases into the plot in the best way possible.
Since the NAdMM's topic was nuked to hell with wherever hiccup happened, I can disclose here this was the route Peixoto was going to follow in a 4-issue Mega Man X mini-series that Rogério Hanata was signed on to draw. It was supposed to follow on X4 (no X5 at the time, kids), and Nástenka would be a recurring character as a survivor of Repliforce that for what I could gather would be bitter towards the Hunters, and also be X's love interest, while Zero dealt with the loss of Iris. Sigma should pop up as the mastermind as not to break the trend.
In the end, the publishing house scheduled to do the series bankrupted before the first issue ever emerged, and that's the last we heard of it.
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Wait, there was going to be a Brazilian X4+ comic? I missed that. :/
Giving the "continue where the games left off" option some thought, Archie could easily fill the gaps between games, seeing how (up to 8 at least) they were self-contained. But there's also a high risk of plot holes that the fans would have to spackle in themselves (if Archie didn't go back and do that themselves--hopefully not through a half-assed retcon).
Option 3...for some reason, their TMNT series springs to mind. That was the same series that turned April O'Neil into a turtle. It could get MUCH worse than lioning eye rays--and that's why I'd want to see it, just to witness the kind of insanity that would ensue. As long as the story doesn't collapse on itself like NAdM's did (and Liefield didn't pencil it), I'd be fine.
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That's the reason why Netto acted like he did in the manga. :| I'd personally that the EXE manga was a wee closer to the games, but then, it was no continuation until the sub-plot "Bug Monster" came along. =/
I'd like to see a MM story outside the games that's accurate, but also enjoyable, wich is the problem. The Jap manga (Mega Mix is what I'm referring to here) never made it to the US, but I'd belive that a huge part of it had a chance to continue. Contrare to belive, I'd love to see a US MM comic. Archie.. I don't know. I just don't down-right trust the comic because I'd be sckeptical about the heavily influince about "Archie and Friends" that would pop up in the story, confusing the readers. *Insert Burger-shaped RM for the spirit of the Burger Miester here*
Marvel I don't trust either. I'd worry too much, but heavy cameos from the Marvel universe would kill the comic, or the comic would stray too far off the plot. (Likewise, X or Mega Man in a relationship while slowly Dr Wily/Sigma is an inch closer to dominate the world)
Wich is why it'd be a better option to leave the comic business to Lengends, it's comical, cute, and, serious. just right for all audiences. (Seeing how it's perfect enough for a Manga/Comic spinoff would have business booming, enough for a Lengends 3)
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Wait, there was going to be a Brazilian X4+ comic? I missed that. :/
I never mentioned it. I was saving it for that "featurette" I would do if things boiled down to that, but I guess I'd better spend my energies somewhere else.
Back when Peixoto actually replied to my e-mails, he disclosed that's what he had to planned when the comic was supposed to go. Far as I know nowhere else this info was relayed on.
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Hard to say about any "Archie and Friends" influences, outside a harem (I firmly believe that Archie created the harem comedy genre that we know today). Marvel, I wouldn't leave an adaptation to for two reasons: Epic Fail and Liefield. (When you advertise a fight, MAKE IT LAST BEYOND TWO PAGES AARGH)
You're right about Legends, though it could easily fall into episodic stagnation (like Monster of the Week without the monsters).
I never mentioned it. I was saving it for that "featurette" I would do if things boiled down to that, but I guess I'd better spend my energies somewhere else.
Ah. Another comic bit the dust...
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The things about the fandom is that it's too concerned with things being like the games. The best thing about Megamix is that we can't read it. We can't complain about it's liberties.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing option 2. Within limits. Nothing as nuts as New Adventures. But not quite as literal as "cutsey manga" MM. Hell, I already know what happened in MM1! How long do I have to wait until it gets past 9; when we finally get some new material? Honestly, Dreamwave's take on MM wasn't *too* bad (probably the toine we'd likely get here if a new series ever shows up again), it's just that their comic production sucked. Hyped up the comic only to be late with it ... making it a series and then just cancelling it and calling it a "mini" ... they ran it into the ground.
The Rubey Spears TV show is too niche now. Whatever relevance it had is long gone.
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Funny things is, no one complains about Megamix, even with RM Tanjou's scanlations. The liberties are treated as interesting instead of scandalous (like RS-MM's). I'm thinking it's because it's Japanese and even purists can't rag on a Japanese product. Glaaaa.
Have to agree about Option 3. That project would have to be mired in the mid/late-90s, and then it might suffer from Never Finished It Syndrome.
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Maybe Megamix is actually good? I don't have weaboo glasses on, as I don't like Iwamoto's renditions much if at all, but what I read of Megamix (covering MM1 and 2) was nice enough to me.
The Mega Mission manga however is pretty bland and uninteresting if I do say so myself.
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Maybe Megamix is actually good?
Can't argue with that. I just meant that purists/noobs like to bash on everything that isn't pure "Rockman" (like RS-MM. ESPECIALLY RS-MM.); by that logic, you'd think Megamix would get some flak regardless of quality.
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"With this my dream will finally be realized!" A Sonic vs. Megaman or Sonic/Megaman crossover= 0v0 0v0 0v0
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Can't argue with that. I just meant that purists/noobs like to bash on everything that isn't pure "Rockman" (like RS-MM. ESPECIALLY RS-MM.); by that logic, you'd think Megamix would get some flak regardless of quality.
I guess if that's to be the case, bold indeed marks the gold.
But you know, it's been too long a while I've ever watched anything RS-MM... the only episode I have taped is Mega X (properly renamed Mega MAN X in Brazil), and that's it. I mean, it's an animated episode featuring promintently one of the characters in Rodrigo's Fictional Trinity, how the hell am I not supposed to have that?!
Either way, I even discussed some RS in a brazilian forum a while ago and someone complained that "Roll was useless". While housemaid weapons aren't exactly brilliant, she did do more than clean the house and serve as a damsel-in-distress (which we would only see in 2002 although the japs had seen it so much more earlier). So I think I get what you're saying, that people outright says everything in it is garbage when that's not the case. But when TOO MUCH of it is bad, inevitably the notion of people all around will always focus on the awful side. I know that far too well because that's the case with one of my childhood vices.
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"With this my dream will finally be realized!" A Sonic vs. Megaman or Sonic/Megaman crossover= 0v0 0v0 0v0
LoL, but that would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
...I like it! 8)
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LoL, but that would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
...I like it! 8)
I am reminded of TMNT / Archie.
I agree that Megamix never recieves flack because it's a Rockman product. If we couldn't read Dreamwave's comics, and if they were all released only in japan (so the lateness wouldn't factor) we might mistake them for a really good comic that we missed out on.
RS gets a lot of flack thanks to Mandi's MM HP. It's one of the first things people read and ... well, when you first enter into something you are easily swayed. That said, RS was pretty corny. But it gets discredited for the wrong reasons.
Is RM Tanjou back yet or what? They should just put their stuff on on Rapuidshare and keep the forums as their main site. Really, all their files were hosted off Photobucket, so I dunno why they couldn't just pick a free option ... it's gotta be less trouble than what they seem to be in right now.
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RS gets a lot of flack thanks to Mandi's MM HP. ... But it gets discredited for the wrong reasons.
What a lot of dissenters fail to realize is, had they gone with the original art style, the show never would've survived past the pilot or it'd acquire a huge female audience (because, you know, Megs is cute. Boys hate cute) and get retooled. But not to go off-topic...
Is RM Tanjou back yet or what? They should just put their stuff on on Rapuidshare and keep the forums as their main site. Really, all their files were hosted off Photobucket, so I dunno why they couldn't just pick a free option ... it's gotta be less trouble than what they seem to be in right now.
It's kinda back, (http://tanjou.rocktarts.com/) but without content. I, too, have to wonder why they don't just put up some .ZIP files on Rapidshare/Megaupload. [Too bad neither has a damned search function, or I'd just download the originals already]
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I agree that Megamix never recieves flack because it's a Rockman product. If we couldn't read Dreamwave's comics, and if they were all released only in japan (so the lateness wouldn't factor) we might mistake them for a really good comic that we missed out on.
I was part of the crowd that disagreed with people saying that Dreamwave's rendition of Mega Man was incredibly bad, had to be stopped, represented evil and that any kind of progress in the universe was impossible while it remained during it's release. But I don't think it makes the cut as "really" good. It's good, for sure, but that's the grade it fits in. IMO, course.
Then again, I hail from [tornado fang]ing NAdMM, so who knows? Either way I do think people give it more flack than it deserves, even if it has it's fair share of facepalm moments.
And on Mandi, I guess I kinda disagree with every little thing she states in her page, even back from the old days. I remember that she heavily criticized Mega X because "if time travel was so easily, why didn't they do something more effective?". In a mandatory crossover episode of a kids' cartoon? What the [tornado fang] are you expecting? Rock and Roll going to the future, Sigma saying he has an ace up his sleeve and then saying that he's going to send assassins to kill Dr. Light before he creates X and then Rock asks what they can do to stop him from doing it and Sigma replies:
"Do it? Rock, I'm not a republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I would explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting it's outcome?
I did 35 minutes ago."
And then we're shown Vile, [tornado fang]ing, [tornado fang]ing going shoulder-cannon on Dr. Light or something.
For God's sake, this is fictional action! You know? James Bond? "Greetings, mr. Bond, I'm now going to explain my entire masterplan and then put you in a machine meant to kill you that doesn't work."? That's how grandpa did, that's how daddy does it, that's how Robbie Downie Jr. did it, and it's worked [tornado fang]ing well so far.
Thank you. Film at eleven.
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As much as I don't want to bash Mandi (her video game coverage is legitimately helpful), her list of "annoyances" concerning RS-MM reads like a conga line of BAAAWWW. She ragged on Megaman's HAIR COLOUR for Christ's sake; if MM4 gave him blue hair, why can't Ruby-Spears give him brown? Yeesh. (NES restrictions, I know...but still. Blue hair.)
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I was part of the crowd that disagreed with people saying that Dreamwave's rendition of Mega Man was incredibly bad, had to be stopped, represented evil and that any kind of progress in the universe was impossible while it remained during it's release. But I don't think it makes the cut as "really" good. It's good, for sure, but that's the grade it fits in. IMO, course.
For the record, I liked the Dreamwave comic.
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Mandi's page is very cool, but ... there's a degree of the fandom that's always taken her crits as gospel. Now that I'm older I can see some flaws. She's totally entitled to her opinion (indeed, reading opinions is what makes reading stuff fun), but some of the fandom read it and go "yeah, that sounds bad to me ... maybe they didn't finish Megaman 5..."
Whenever you read someone saying the RS crew didn't finish MM5 you've probably met someone who's opinion is derived from reading Mandi's MMHP.
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Personally, I don't understand how anyone could not like Super Fighting Robot. It's full of the cartoon cheesiness that we've grown up with all our lives. That's why I love it so much. It doesn't take itself too seriously. It's a cartoon. Not every cartoon can be of Batman: TAS quality. But, for a cartoon about MegaMan, I thought it was fun. And this is coming from a Blues fanboy who saw his favorite character Shield-less and Evil. The fact that he's voiced by one of the greatest VA's ever helps though! 8D
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I didn't get to see it on TV while I was growing up. Never could find whe n it was on. I was a Captain N kid tho.
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Oh, me too. Captain N was also cheesy and awesome, despite the Mega Shame for what they did to our beloved Characters! XD
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I'm reminded of the Rockman OVAs. When I first saw them, I (and I expect many others) were like:" holy crap! It's so official looking it's scary! Why did they not bring this over!?"
HOWEVER, when they brought it over it was... "Holy crap! This is targed exclusively to 5-8 year olds. And I'm over 16." I suppose that's the problem with MM. I like MM, but the PTB will never, ever make a game or product befitting an older fan. They'll slap a new MM in a new series, but never throw some darkness intot he origional.
That said tho, the Archie TMNT comics were pretty good. If they made a MM comic with that sort of level, I'm sure I could get into it.
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I first heard of RS-MM through the Anniversary Collection manual, and thought it was primarily a sci-fi series a la Star Trek. (The cover for Vol. 1 threw me off)
As for Captain N Megaman...how can a robot be a chain smoker?
I'm thinking of doing a mockup in the near future. Whether or not I can finish it in the near future remains to be seen.
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I'm reminded of the Rockman OVAs. When I first saw them, I (and I expect many others) were like:" holy crap! It's so official looking it's scary! Why did they not bring this over!?"
HOWEVER, when they brought it over it was... "Holy crap! This is targed exclusively to 5-8 year olds. And I'm over 16." I suppose that's the problem with MM. I like MM, but the PTB will never, ever make a game or product befitting an older fan. They'll slap a new MM in a new series, but never throw some darkness intot he origional.
Honestly? I saw just the first OVA back when it hit Youtube, a good lot of time back then. I thought "Sure, this is kiddy, but there were things more offensive to my intelligence in RS-MM".
For research reasons (no kidding), I looked it up again and ended up finding just the 2nd episode. There, they "crossed the line", so to say. I couldn't really turn happy-go-lucky with it, and I guess I was just somewhat enamored with the whole flavor of the first episode back then. The weaboo subtitles didn't help matters either ("HAY GUISE LES NOT TRANSLATE 'HAKASE' TO 'DOCTOR' 'CUZ THATS SO MUCH KEWWLER!!! GANBATEEEEE". Die in a fire. kthx). So I didn't even bother with the third episode, don't think I ever will.
That said tho, the Archie TMNT comics were pretty good. If they made a MM comic with that sort of level, I'm sure I could get into it.
An aunt of mine that lived in the US sent some of those my way. They had some wacky [parasitic bomb] (I remember this issue where the TMNT teamed up with a group of BIG FOOTS and this bearded fellow with a tight jumpsuit that resembled Chuck Norris), but it seemed pretty nice alright.
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Whenever you read someone saying the RS crew didn't finish MM5 you've probably met someone who's opinion is derived from reading Mandi's MMHP.
Heh... I did some thinking about that. Maybe it's not that the cartoon crew didn't finish MM5, but that they read something different into the stories of the games based on their first impressions. I mean, 5 starts off with this story that clearly marks ProtoMan as an evildoer who leads a band of destructive robots. And who's ProtoMan? He's that jerk who shoots at you in 3! And so what if he saved MegaMan from DarkMan, Dr. Cossack, and that boulder? Maybe he's prideful, and HE wants to be the one to destroy MegaMan! So you see, even if you knew that ProtoMan was framed by Dr. Wily's DarkMan robot, you still might not assume that he's not evil; maybe ProtoMan just doesn't like being framed. And they did use DarkMan 2 rather than DarkMan 4 for the show.
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Great points. Even Capcom of America constantly plays up the "WHOSE SIDE IS HE ON?!?!?!11?11" angle; I wasn't aware he was supposed to be a good guy until I checked the Internet for the first time and got "HE'S A GOOD GUY, [sonic slicer]!"
Mockup's done, (http://fc35.deviantart.com/fs38/f/2008/331/b/e/Megaman_und_Enker_by_General_RADIX.jpg) though I can't say I'm entirely happy with it (what time period is this supposed to be from?). Anyone want to do better?
You know, Enker might have been a viable rival for Megaman, had Capcom used him more. As it is, he's just sort of...there.
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Personally, I don't understand how anyone could not like Super Fighting Robot. It's full of the cartoon cheesiness that we've grown up with all our lives. That's why I love it so much. It doesn't take itself too seriously. It's a cartoon. Not every cartoon can be of Batman: TAS quality. But, for a cartoon about MegaMan, I thought it was fun. And this is coming from a Blues fanboy who saw his favorite character Shield-less and Evil. The fact that he's voiced by one of the greatest VA's ever helps though! 8D
dont forget the red briefs.
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Oh, you're right! Regular ProtoMan only has a red BELT!
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Although I may not have seen the Game Master myself, I did enjoy the MM cartoon and I wonder what Bass would look like if the made an appearance in the show?
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Although I may not have seen the Game Master myself, I did enjoy the MM cartoon and I wonder what Bass would look like if the made an appearance in the show?
Knowing Captain N? Bass would probably be blue.
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Someone who is not me needs to draw that.
I've been trying to piece together how an Archie-produced MM story would play out, based on the nature of their deviations from Sonic and TMNT. The most solidified idea at the moment is that of Wily turning eight willing humans into robots (or "cyborgs", if Archie didn't feel like using the R word), then basing later robots off of their (MMGB1) designs. This way, Archie could avoid the inevitable pothole of "Do Classic 'bots have free will?" by having the RMs start out as human. Not sure where this places the good guys, though.
...does it count as necroposting if it's 10 days old and you're the thread starter?
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Rock would be Lights son. and Protoman the prototype cyborg or something? I mean, if that were how it went, then lol, cyborg 009. (technically 000, but you get my point...)
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Rock would be Lights son. and Protoman the prototype cyborg or something? I mean, if that were how it went, then lol, cyborg 009. (technically 000, but you get my point...)
Since Roll's his sis, I bet she would get the same treatment as the Ruby Spears counterpart.
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How off is the archie Sonic comic?? Many of their deviations could be because they've been around for so long. From the Sonic AM stuff to right to the present.
The TMNT comic was pretty true to the origional cartoon, so I don't think they'd make the robots cyborgs or anything. Although they'd definately introduce a new villain. Having Dr. Wily over and over again would just get boring.
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they would most definetly introduce new villains.
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How off is the archie Sonic comic?? Many of their deviations could be because they've been around for so long. From the Sonic AM stuff to right to the present.
The very first issue--and I mean the first story presented in their 1993 "#0-3" run, before the main series--already deviated from the games by presenting Sonic as a rebel living underground (when Knothole was underground) accompanied by Sally, Rotor, Antoine, and Tails; Robotnik, now sporting a cape and a differently-shaped skull, is an evil dictator. Granted, the original games had no discernible story, but Sally and the rest never appeared in 'em, so...
The TMNT comic was pretty true to the origional cartoon, so I don't think they'd make the robots cyborgs or anything.
Though, they did go in their own direction after #5.
As for the new villain thing, they might play Dr. Cossack like that. Whether or not he turns good later would be up to them. And then there's the RMs themselves (am I the only one imagining psycho former human Cutman?)
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I think it would probably run like a mix of Ruby spears Megaman, and a bit like the Sonic archie comics.
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The very first issue--and I mean the first story presented in their 1993 "#0-3" run, before the main series--already deviated from the games by presenting Sonic as a rebel living underground (when Knothole was underground) accompanied by Sally, Rotor, Antoine, and Tails; Robotnik, now sporting a cape and a differently-shaped skull, is an evil dictator. Granted, the original games had no discernible story, but Sally and the rest never appeared in 'em, so...
Though, they did go in their own direction after #5.
As for the new villain thing, they might play Dr. Cossack like that. Whether or not he turns good later would be up to them. And then there's the RMs themselves (am I the only one imagining psycho former human Cutman?)
Well, that sounds like Sonic AM's theme. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hGvVsSXXJqI&feature=related
That (and, bizarrely, the theme following in the vid) were both TV shows at the time. It makes sence that they'd follow it.
I know the TMNT comics strayed at issue 5, but is was more about issue 13, after Krang, Shredder, Bebop, and Rocksteady were finally defeated. But it was still about four mutant turtles and a mutant rat, you know? Although there was a mystic and ecology theme running strong in the books.
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The very first issue--and I mean the first story presented in their 1993 "#0-3" run, before the main series--already deviated from the games by presenting Sonic as a rebel living underground (when Knothole was underground) accompanied by Sally, Rotor, Antoine, and Tails; Robotnik, now sporting a cape and a differently-shaped skull, is an evil dictator. Granted, the original games had no discernible story, but Sally and the rest never appeared in 'em, so...
Well, that sounds like Sonic AM's theme. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hGvVsSXXJqI&feature=related
That (and, bizarrely, the theme following in the vid) were both TV shows at the time. It makes sence that they'd follow it.
That's right. From what I understand, the comic book was originally based on that TV cartoon, but it started while the TV series was still in development, so it used some earlier concepts like Knothole being literally underground and Rotor being called "Boomer". You can see some resemblance to the earliest issues in the pilot episode, "Heads or Tails", which features pink Sally, white Swatbots, etc. So the comic book series started to incorporate the additions to the TV shows later on, and when the cartoon ended, the comic book had to make up its own continuation of that story, along with loosely adapting the games' stories.
Am I the only one imagining psycho former human Cutman?
(http://www.mainfinger.com/misc/cutsman.jpg)
"CUTSMAN'S THE NAME.
CUTTING'S MY GAME.
AND I DON'T MEAN HAIR."