RockmanPM Forums
Other Things => Off The Wall => Entertainment => Topic started by: Waifu on September 16, 2011, 11:09:19 PM
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For Star Wars haters....I mean fans, the blu ray is out.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44491069?GT1=43001 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44491069?GT1=43001)
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Might as well be me posting these:
To those who don't know, these are the new changes good ol' Uncle Lucas made to our beloved films.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0EUjobdavw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&src_vid=J0EUjobdavw&v=27RVJJfny4I&annotation_id=annotation_900451[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_916826&v=RnLgh3dudSk&feature=iv&src_vid=27RVJJfny4I[/youtube]
There's also a clip of Sebulba (or someone like him I dunno) in Jabba's Palace, and a few changes with the prequel trilogy, but who cares, really?
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This contains all six movies, right?
In the latest "updated" version, right?
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I've seen two packs on sale, one with each trilogy, each costing about 45 euros.
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I know of the changes and I have no intention of buying the BluRays simply because I don't have a BluRay player. Hell, most of Wookieepedia are vehemently opposed to the changes. A few are buying the BluRays because we need screenshots and whatever information the extra features may hold, and if I had a BluRay player and an extra $80 to burn, I would consider buying them for that purpose, too.
I'm happy with my stereo-sound half-assed release of the theatrical versions.
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Eh, pass. I already have them all already and I'm quuuiiite happy with my unaltered films (Well, maybe except Jedi, but that was INTENTIONAL, he wanted to do that since the conception of the scene, and the DVD version of A New Hope and Empire is just well, the DVD versions of the special edition anyway).
George, if you need money so badly, why put it to good use and fix yer carazeh neck?
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You know how much of a killing he would make if he would just give us nice unaltered releases? Fans are clamoring for it, give the fans what they want instead of having a love affair with AfterEffects!
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Bah, you have no idea. I stopped Star-Wars re-release purchases after the DVDs. I'm not getting them on blu-ray since he practically, anally raped the origional trilogy.
Speaking of which, I'd like to know if there was ever a re-release, George would INSIST raping the Family Guy parody trilogy. Just you bet.
Begun, the fan wars has.
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One of these days, some fan is gonna be pushed too far and they'll go ballistic.
As for the Family Guy or Robot Chicken parodies; Lucas wouldn't touch those. No, he's too content with reworking his own stuff over and over to meet this so-called "original vision" that he claims he has (which, he does not. He's pulling [parasitic bomb] out of his ass now). He'd much rather replace all the model and puppetry and good, tangible special effects with CGI, and add Vader's "NOOOOO!" to the ending of RotJ for whatever ass-[tornado fang] reason.
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He'd much rather replace all the model and puppetry and good, tangible special effects with CGI, and add Vader's "NOOOOO!" to the ending of RotJ for whatever ass-[tornado fang] reason.
Is that only the blu-ray alteration? Maybe I could just stick with the DVDs, but at the same time, I do want to see the picture quality remastered.
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No, there's a ton of other piddly changes, most of which were already described above. Such as the pointless Dug in Jabba's palace, complete with lousy pan-and-scan, some rocks added to Artoo's hiding place in ANH for whatever pointless reason (we'll ignore how the [tornado fang] he was able to get INTO that crevice), more tweaks to the Han and Greedo scene, tweaks to Obi-Wan's krayt dragon yell, the list goes on and on and on and on...
People are more up in arms about the "NOOOOO" added to when Vader chucked Palpatine down the shaft.
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oh boy...another chapter in the eternal war...who shot first? han or grido??!
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According to the BluRay tweak, it's the same exact time. :|
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Holy hell. I'm not a big Star Wars fan, but hearing all of this gets me irritated. Lucas must be on some Hollywood pot.
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According to the BluRay tweak, it's the same exact time. :|
NOW THEY SHOOT AT THE SAME TIME!? ILLOGICAL. Han Shot First, so there. Also, Little R2 was able to squeeze through the original hole by his incredible hoverjets and carefully maneuvering himself into the crevice.
Holy hell. I'm not a big Star Wars fan, but hearing all of this gets me irritated. Lucas must be on some Hollywood pot.
Not just Lucas, almost everyone else does some kind a drug in that shady business.. -_-
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Lucas can go [tornado fang] himself.
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I still haven't seen the changes from the DVD Special Edition (last I watched original trilogy was the VHS Trilogy box), so I don't think I'm in any hurry.
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Just a minor change in Jedi's ending on the DVD is that Anikin's actor is replaced with Hayden Christensen for when his force ghost appears.
Well, for me that is. It's so minor it's barely noticeable. :\
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Sounds... reasonable, I guess
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George Lucas and his never ending battle with the Star Wars details...
more changes? I wonder how many times hes going to keep doing these... (dont answer that, it was rhetorical)
In other news; Steven Spielberg apologized for changes he himself made to ET, when he replaced Govt. Agent guns with walkie talkies. And almost sorta admitted Crystal Skull sucked.
Like a polar opposite of Lucas now almost. One makes constant changes, one apologized for them. One thought crystal skull was a good Idea, the other seems to have some feelings about it and was resistant about Lucas' ideas for it.
Thing is, Lucas really doesnt care much about the criticism he gets on Star Wars. He just calls it his vision and keeps rolling, "not surprised" at some of the receptions.
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It's really amazing how sickening I find these changes. More and more I really question just how much Lucas actually had to do with making the original trilogy any good, because with the prequels plus all these little tweaks and [parasitic bomb], it's painfully obvious that he doesn't know how to tell a story. Character Arcs? Unnecessary! Connecting Plots? Pointless! Conveying meaning without saying a word? Pfffft, [tornado fang] that noise! Like Pinkett said when discussing the opening of the original movie, it's so brilliant that I truly believe Lucas had nothing to do with it and fought against its inclusion in the movie.
What's truly disgusting is that he really believes he is doing you a favor with these changes. Otherwise, the original original movies would be released. Releasing the originals would only get him more money, so there's no reason not to do it other than the fact that they are not the, and I say this while laughing, "story" HE wants to tell.
Thing is, Lucas really doesnt care much about the criticism he gets on Star Wars. He just calls it his vision and keeps rolling, "not surprised" at some of the receptions.
Would you really care if the majority of people critiquing your work still bought it in droves?
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Yeah. Probably not. :P
Also, the inclusion of NOOOOO in the Vader redemption scene kills me. The original was so damn intense, I mean, Vader doesnt even have a [tornado fang]ing FACE, its just a still mask, but you could STILL see emotion and turmoil within him, and the "DONT TOUCH MY [tornado fang]ing SON" written all over him when he tossed Palpatine.
THAT was good storytelling. When you dont need to say a word or really even show expression to tell the tale.
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You know, if Lucas is going to change every little thing about Star Wars, he should go back and make The Phantom Menace into a decent movie. I don't think too many fans would mind that (at least, I hope).
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He probably feels they are perfect as is. :P
After all, they pretty much sort of started his "vision" of how to "improve" Star Wars. He felt Star Wars needed a prequel story. One that tells of how Vader became Vader. so its like, "Ok,... Its not really necessary, we already know all there needs to be known about him, and the mystery about what we dnt know only fuels the imagination, but ok, ill roll with it."
Then we get the prequels... And its like "what..."
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And almost sorta admitted Crystal Skull sucked.
Though, the Fridge scene was a so bad it's good moment for me. Sure, the 'Cheif can carry 5 guns but can he survive a nuke in a fridge? Harrison's indestructable, he was able to resist being frozen to death in carbonite, and he's able to survive a nuke in a [tornado fang]ing fridge. He's a real badass there. :\
I Character Arcs? Unnecessary! Connecting Plots? Pointless! Conveying meaning without saying a word? Pfffft, [tornado fang] that noise!
Yeesh, now I can completely say that Star Wars has become a shonen (or soujo, depends on one's viewpoint) anime. It used to be GOOD, but over the years it became so bad that it makes a pile of [parasitic bomb] cry bricks.
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You know, if Lucas is going to change every little thing about Star Wars, he should go back and make The Phantom Menace into a decent movie. I don't think too many fans would mind that (at least, I hope).
There's no way to fix it without literally altering the entire movie, and the second one, and the third one. It's essentially un-fixable.
He probably feels they are perfect as is. :P
After all, they pretty much sort of started his "vision" of how to "improve" Star Wars. He felt Star Wars needed a prequel story. One that tells of how Vader became Vader. so its like, "Ok,... Its not really necessary, we already know all there needs to be known about him, and the mystery about what we dnt know only fuels the imagination, but ok, ill roll with it."
Then we get the prequels... And its like "what..."
You see, prequel movies could have actually been really good. The problem is him. He cannot tell a story. At all, and it's evident by how bad the prequels are, because they really don't even connect to the original trilogy that well.
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Sure, the Clone Wars DID happen, there WAS characters like Yoda, Anakin, and Obi Wan. The rest of the cast was most likely pulled out of his ass, though one has to wonder how he was able to get Mr. "I am tired of these Monkey Fighting Snakes on this Monday to Friday plane" to play the role of Mace Windu..
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Yeah. I can see how you doubt his involvement in the originals.
Can it simply be coincidence? He got lucky with the originals?
Many directors who were once good one day started making shitty movies.
and actually, it could be because the original Producer of the movies isnt helping him anymore.
urtz and Lucas first collaborated on the 1973 film American Graffiti, which became a huge box office hit. Kurtz then became producer of Star Wars, released in 1977, and its sequel, The Empire Strikes Back released in 1980. Many of the more mystical and spiritual elements of Star Wars were influenced by Kurtz, who had extensively studied comparative religion. Kurtz was a Quaker at the time and is currently Buddhist.
Kurtz has claimed that he and George Lucas clashed over how to progress the Star Wars series. Kurtz recalled after Raiders of the Lost Ark in 1981, Lucas became convinced that audiences no longer cared about the story; they were simply there for thrills and entertainment, and he began to deviate from the original planned plotlines for Return of the Jedi, at which point Kurtz quit the series. Kurtz has also claimed that Lucas changed the emphasis from storytelling to one that prioritized toy merchandising. Kurtz has expressed his dissatisfaction with Return of the Jedi and Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace. Kurtz was particularly displeased with Lucas' decisions in Return of the Jedi to resurrect the Death Star and to change the plot outline from one that ended on a "bittersweet and poignant" note to one having a "euphoric ending where everyone was happy". Other sources have suggested that Kurtz was removed from the franchise by Lucas after he had allowed production on The Empire Strikes Back to run seriously over-schedule and over-budget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kurtz
think we may have found our missing link in this issue?
Sure, the Clone Wars DID happen, there WAS characters like Yoda, Anakin, and Obi Wan. The rest of the cast was most likely pulled out of his ass, though one has to wonder how he was able to get Mr. "I am tired of these Monkey Fighting Snakes on this Monday to Friday plane" to play the role of Mace Windu..
Ive hear it rumored before that his condition to join was to have a purple lightsaber. No idea if it's true or not.
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I've heard that too, Flame.
Knowing Samuel L. Jackson, I'm not surprised. He was one of the most awesome characters in the prequels.
I'M SICK OF THESE MUTHAFUTTIN SITH IN MY MUTHAFUTTIN TEMPLE!!
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Well as far as im concerned, Samuel L. Jackson can have any saber color he damn well pleases. Because he's Samuel L. Jackson.
I mean, really, a Purple Lightsaber is pretty cool.
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Well, that and he was more of a protagonist whiny "IHATEEVERYTHING" Anikin. Seriously, it was almost like he made the prequels. Jar Jar and Anikin can fall into a Sarlacc Pit for all I care.
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Sure, the Clone Wars DID happen, there WAS characters like Yoda, Anakin, and Obi Wan. The rest of the cast was most likely pulled out of his ass, though one has to wonder how he was able to get Mr. "I am tired of these Monkey Fighting Snakes on this Monday to Friday plane" to play the role of Mace Windu..
Sam Jackson will do anything, really. He practically begged to be in this movie in some way, shape, or form. The Purple Lightsaber (which I have) was kind of a gift.
Yeah. I can see how you doubt his involvement in the originals.
Can it simply be coincidence? He got lucky with the originals?
Many directors who were once good one day started making shitty movies.
and actually, it could be because the original Producer of the movies isnt helping him anymore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kurtz
think we may have found our missing link in this issue?
Back in the old days, he had people, probably like Kurtz, to tell him what worked and what didn't. With the prequels, he had complete and total control over pretty much ever aspect of the movie's development.
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So basically, he needs a babysitter when he writes his drafts and ideas.
Although the idea of Lucas being more "merchandise" centered seems about right.
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Sam Jackson will do anything, really. He practically begged to be in this movie in some way, shape, or form. The Purple Lightsaber (which I have) was kind of a gift.
Huh. So if I [sonic slicer] and moan about getting in, would I make an appearance in the Clone Wars TV series? (To me it is MUCH better written than the prequels themselves)
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Back in the old days, he had people, probably like Kurtz, to tell him what worked and what didn't. With the prequels, he had complete and total control over pretty much ever aspect of the movie's development.
YES finally someone on the internet said it , i remember seeing an old making of DVD " Building of an Empire" or something like that ... that talked about the history of the creation of Star Wars and mentioned how he clashed with the people he was working with and the movie companies.
People are always saying Lucas lost it and hes no longer a good storyteller , I think he never was, hes said countless times even back then ... that the original trilogy isnt what he envisioned .. that he always wanted it BIGGER and BETTER and thats what hes doing now in his own eyes.
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So in other words...
Lucas is, was and forever will be a [tornado fang]ing hack.
A RICH [tornado fang]ing HACK!
Goddamn.
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So basically, he needs a babysitter when he writes his drafts and ideas.
Although the idea of Lucas being more "merchandise" centered seems about right.
It's not just the writing. It's the directing, editing, and basically everything that goes into making a movie. One person is not suppose to have that much control, because you lose objectivity. Do you know that post production (editors and such) do not watch the production aspect of the movie while it is being shot? It's because the editors' job is to make sure it flows and progresses into a good, cohesive story.
A good example of this is in the re-done version of the original movie, A New Hope. In the newer versions, Lucas re-adds the scene with Han & Jabba outside the Falcon later after Han kills Greedo. That scene was removed because it serves no purpose in the movie due to the previous Greedo scene. Hell, some of the dialog is literally the same like "Even I get boarded sometimes" and more. Lucas probably put them back in because he liked the original scene and also because he wanted CGI Jabba, which looks [tornado fang]ing terrible I might add.
A lot of the "added in" scenes in the original movies are absolutely not needed and they were removed for a purpose. Lucas doesn't understand this, because he wants total control. You can see this in the prequels, when he did have total control. It absolutely reeks of [acid burst] poor editing, because the movies are not only told badly but they're boring at parts, which is why post production is an entirely different field than production. Their job is to objectively look at what works in the movie and what doesn't. But with Lucas pretty much giving orders, there's nothing they can do, cause he has total control.
Don't get me wrong though. I don't even think the best of editing could have saved those movies, because like I told Gonzie, they are pretty much un-fixable without literally remaking the entire movies. Not only do entire scenes need to be removed, but lots of dialog, plenty of story, and a bunch of characters need to go as well.
YES finally someone on the internet said it , i remember seeing an old making of DVD " Building of an Empire" or something like that ... that talked about the history of the creation of Star Wars and mentioned how he clashed with the people he was working with and the movie companies.
People are always saying Lucas lost it and hes no longer a good storyteller , I think he never was, hes said countless times even back then ... that the original trilogy isnt what he envisioned .. that he always wanted it BIGGER and BETTER and thats what hes doing now in his own eyes.
This was made even more evident in an interview with Harrison Ford a while back, when he discussed the "I love you. I know." scene in Empire. Ford and the director literally had to fight Lucas on this matter because Lucas wanted Han to say "I love you too" back to Leia, clearly showing he not only knows nothing about the character Han Solo, but does not know how to write two people in love, which is made painfully obvious by pretty much all Anakin & Padme romantic dialog in the prequels.
But yes, that is pretty much exactly what he's doing with all his retouching. He is trying to make the films the way he originally wanted them to be, which is a crime.
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In that same making of DVD , they also showed that Han Solo was originally going to be a some kind of bizzare green alien. makes me wonder had Lucas had complete control back then if thats what he would have been.
I remember the DVD now .. its called " Empire of Dreams "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Dreams
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCA652992BF6AE229
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To those who say Lucas should release the original films untouched, he did cave in to fan demands a few years ago and released the original trilogy in the form of bonus discs within the trilogy itself.
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Trilogy-Widescreen-Theatrical/dp/B001EN71DG/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1316254498&sr=1-1
The movies are there, untouched, but still unformatted for widescreen, so you'll have to watch them old-style.
And it IS Lucas' fault. I remember it when he criticized stories like KOTOR II for giving depth to the Sith and having their motivations be one of finding morality in certain deeds than be absolutely ridiculous caricatures of evil fighting ridiculous caricatures of good. Lucas wouldn't have any depth in Star Wars. 90% of the Star Wars book writers also write much better than him. They shoulda gotten Timothy Zahn to write the prequel trilogy story. He already has plenty of experience writing the sequel trilogy books. Heck, probably every single person who's ever contributed to the extended universe is a better writer, and makes a better story than Lucas. But he's a whiny man who bitches about things if they have more success than him. Like the mess he turned the Clone Wars cartoon in after Tartakovsky made it absolutely awesome.
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Food for thought-
What if Spielberg directed a Star Wars movie.
With No Lucas Involvement whatsoever.
For the sake of argument, he gets the rights to make a movie.
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Food for thought-
What if Spielberg directed a Star Wars movie.
With No Lucas Involvement whatsoever.
For the sake of argument, he gets the rights to make a movie.
It would be very good.
Heck, I loved Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. As in LOVED it. Fans [sonic slicer] about ridiculous parts, but we've had nazi head-melting due to vengeful gods in the first one, heart-ripping without killing someone in the second, and Hitler signing autographs in the third. Nuked fridges is just on-par with the series, and so are aliens.
If you want to see a Spielberg movie (the ones he used to make) today, check out Super 8. Everything about it is Spielberg, from the way kids talk in a way kids really do talk, the way they make it about the genuine excitement and discovery of something amazing, and the way characters are portrayed. Everything about it stinks of ET: Decades Later. He'd be amazing at Star Wars. (and yes, I'm aware that Abrams still left his mark with the continous lens flares that go on through the whole movie. He's gained the right, honestly)
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Heck, I loved Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. As in LOVED it. Fans [sonic slicer] about ridiculous parts, but we've had nazi head-melting due to vengeful gods in the first one, heart-ripping without killing someone in the second, and Hitler signing autographs in the third. Nuked fridges is just on-par with the series, and so are aliens.
This , I never understood all the hate coming from the whole Aliens from another dimension thing. .. its like every fan chose to ignore all the endings to the other Indy films like Bueno has stated, also dont forget the immortal Knight and the Holy Grail in Raiders of the Lost Arc!
oh and...
http://youtu.be/cpam467FgCA?t=5m2s
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This , I never understood all the hate coming from the whole Aliens from another dimension thing. .. its like every fan chose to ignore all the endings to the other Indy films like Bueno has stated, also dont forget the immortal Knight and the Holy Grail in Raiders of the Lost Arc!
oh and...
http://youtu.be/cpam467FgCA?t=5m2s
EXACTLY. That scene, in my opinion, is more over-the-top ridiculous than anything in Crystal Skull. And YES, that does include the fridge thing. It's supposed to be funny, guys! Indy movies have been about vengeful gods, evil hell rituals, and the Holy Grail being MAGIC, with an immortal protecting it. Where do aliens from another dimension not fit in? Indy has as much leeway as Doctor Who when it comes to ridiculous things becoming stories, and you all know it.
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Weren't there other problems with Crystal Skull?
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Main thing I hated about it was Shia Labouf
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Fate of Atlantis is the canon IJ4 anyway.
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Main thing I hated about it was Shia Labouf
I like him. He's a good Indy's son, being all clumsy, confident and screwing up a whole lot, but still being intelligent and a big rookie.
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Weren't there other problems with Crystal Skull?
Yes there are but the main complaint i always hear is the Aliens. second would be the overuse of CGI................. and gophers.
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I like him. He's a good Indy's son, being all clumsy, confident and screwing up a whole lot, but still being intelligent and a big rookie.
Hmmm. Weeell, I suppose he does fit in alright, when you put it that way.
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Hmmm. Weeell, I suppose he does fit in alright.
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/3/30085/898476-short_round_4_super.jpg)
HE NO MO KURAZY SIDEKICK DAN ME, DOCTA JOOONES!
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True, true.
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and gophers.
...Why? That's just exactly as bitching about Sonic's green eyes. Sometimes animals can provide humor, remember the snakes that were a constant pest through the films?
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I dont know why , i just remember reading alot in message forums about the cgi gophers everyone kept whining about them saying it was pointless to have them, as well as all the monkeys in the jungle scene [ which is suppose to be a Tarzan reference from the old black and white film ] .
I'm not saying i hated it , I'm just saying what other people have complained about after its released. I had no problems with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull :)
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Everything fits. If old Indy movies came out nowadays, everyone would criticize them for being bigger clusterfucks of weird elements things bigger than Pirates of the Carribean sequels.
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Heh, I've already gone into the reasons why Crystal Skull is so [tornado fang]ing terrible a long time ago. No need to bring it up again.
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Wow, the reviews on Amazon give the thing a whopping two stars. Shows how much the fans think of this.
Lucas doesn't care. He's too busy cruising on a golden yacht decorated with the tears of purist fans in his gigantic vault of Money. He wipes his ass on your money and doesn't think twice about it, for all he knows keeping Star Wars "Timeless" means re-editing them until they're shlock, changing what was good then (and still is good now) into what is barely considered Made-For-TV quality. From what I can guess, he thinks that if he took a dumpster filled with rotting food and toxic chemicals, slapped the Star Wars logo on it, and put a nice little price tag on it for, oh, lets say $1000, Somebody would eventually buy it. Regardless of the contents. Its a sad state of affairs here.
I guess I can be considered "Lucky". I've never watched the "Special" Editions of the Star Wars films, nor do I plan to. Hell, we don't even have the DVD's at our house, just the VHS set from some time in the 80's.
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I watched the originals before the prequels existed, when my parents rented them from Blockbuster. On VHS tapes. When i was like, what, 10? Maybe a little less?
[parasitic bomb] was awesome back then. Even as a little kid I understood the basic underlying concepts, found it all awesome.
Saw the prequels. And by then I was probably 16-17, give or take. (saw them after the fact, rented) And even though I was older, i was STILL confused by half the [parasitic bomb] that went on. In every single one of them. Only the third one had any real action or memorable parts in it- all of which consist pretty much of Anakin throwing Samuel L. Jackson out the window, Aaaaand the final battle+epilogue.
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I saw the OT when I was four and understood it fine. The PT took some after-movie discussion, if I recall.
Oh, when I was scouring Wal-mart for boxes (they were doing inventory and restocking, so I was helping myself to the discarded boxes), I saw their display for the BluRays. Pretty spiffy. I should steal that cardboard AT-AT and give its damage some duck tape love.
Then I saw a SW keg of popcorn and died inside a little.
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I saw the OT when I was four and understood it fine. The PT took some after-movie discussion, if I recall.
Oh, when I was scouring Wal-mart for boxes (they were doing inventory and restocking, so I was helping myself to the discarded boxes), I saw their display for the BluRays. Pretty spiffy. I should steal that cardboard AT-AT and give its damage some duck tape love.
Then I saw a SW keg of popcorn and died inside a little.
Oh yeah, I saw those too.
Like what I said, if it has the star wars logo plastered on it, somebody is going to buy it.
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Sadly. Lucas knows he has a cash cow and he's not afraid to milk it. Quite shrewd, I'll admit, but it's still disheartening.
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Another thing about the pequels is I just found them... boring... I know during the original 3 I sometimes wandered off, but that was only because my attention span couldnt handle some of the more talky scenes. I was little after all. YOUNGER than 10 now tht I think harder about it. Rewatching them when I was older, I never found a dull moment.
But the prequels were just boring to me. Or at least had very boring moments. The moments between Padme and Anakin in particular, which by all rights SHOULD have been interesting, were just so badly done that they were just boring. I cant quite place my finger on it, but even some of the action scenes were boring.
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There's actually a reason you think they're boring, and it's not just the dialog & story. If you ever get the chance, go to RedLetterMedia.com and watch Plinkett's reviews of them. They do a wonderful job explaining why they're so incredible bad, going into immense detail.
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I just noticed something. Anybody remember Space Jam? The deal thing?
The similarity behind these two?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Ashurahori/george_lucas_11.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Ashurahori/1-2.png)
...AND THESE TWO?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Ashurahori/4.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Ashurahori/3-2.jpg)
"YOU'LL WORK FOR ME... ENTERTAIN THE KIDS... AND YOU WILL ALWAYS LOSE!"
Oh Vader. ;____________;
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I just noticed something. Anybody remember Space Jam? The deal thing?
The similarity behind these two?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Ashurahori/george_lucas_11.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Ashurahori/1-2.png)
...AND THESE TWO?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Ashurahori/4.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Ashurahori/3-2.jpg)
"YOU'LL WORK FOR ME... ENTERTAIN THE KIDS... AND YOU WILL ALWAYS LOSE!"
Oh Vader. ;____________;
You know, I never realized it until now, but Lucas doesn't appear to have a chin. His beard just stops halfway on his neck. What a strange looking fellow, no wonder you saw the resemblance to the fat thing from Space Jam, it also has no chin.
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^ Been buying too much of that rich people's food 8D
Hell, we don't even have the DVD's at our house, just the VHS set from some time in the 80's.
All I have is tapes, too.
I have the original 1997 Ep.IV Special Edition tape, the 2000 original Trilogy VHS box, and the Ep.I and II tapes... I have to say, the Trilogy box is kinda sentimental to me.
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Even more interesting is looking at an older pic of Lucas
(http://images.forbes.com/media/2007/05/23/revo_07.jpg)
The neck thing grows... D:
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Oh wow.
He grows with age.
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There's actually a reason you think they're boring, and it's not just the dialog & story. If you ever get the chance, go to RedLetterMedia.com and watch Plinkett's reviews of them. They do a wonderful job explaining why they're so incredible bad, going into immense detail.
yeah I saw that analysis some time ago, though I should probably re-watch it. It was pretty long.
maybe if we remove that parasite from Lucas' neck, there might be a change in him?
OK! Who knows how to remove gluttonous special effects hungry neck parasites?
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OK! Who knows how to remove gluttonous special effects hungry neck parasites?
(http://images.wikia.com/dcanimated/images/1/19/Croc_rock.png)
HIT IT WITH A ROCK!
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It was a big rock!
yeah I saw that analysis some time ago, though I should probably re-watch it. It was pretty long.
Each movie is about 80-90 minutes of analysis each. If you don't have the time, essentially in the third movie's review he talks about the way it's presented. All the talking scenes are the same exact thing in every movie: sitting in a chair, walking in a hallway, standing next to a window, sitting down, walking, sitting, standing, shot/reverse shot over and over again, and your brain picks up on this. It's the most basic and boring of film making.
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It was a big rock!
Each movie is about 80-90 minutes of analysis each. If you don't have the time, essentially in the third movie's review he talks about the way it's presented. All the talking scenes are the same exact thing in every movie: sitting in a chair, walking in a hallway, standing next to a window, sitting down, walking, sitting, standing, shot/reverse shot over and over again, and your brain picks up on this. It's the most basic and boring of film making.
Not to mention the two-camera system. The same thing they use essencially for sitcoms and soap operas. As low-quality as ever goes the imagination.
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Not to mention the two-camera system. The same thing they use essencially for sitcoms and soap operas. As low-quality as ever goes the imagination.
That's what I meant when I said shot/reverse shot. Essentially over the shoulder talking to one another. Boooooring.
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Yeah, the cinematography in the Prequels suffered, as did the fight scenes. Flourishing may look pretty on camera, but that's really all that it is. In a fight, it leaves you wide open, it wastes time, and while you're spinning around and trying to look all slick, your fight-dirty opponent has stabbed you in the flank. And the usage of all digital scenes, characters, and such just leaves the acting sterile. The scenes lack substance, there isn't any real danger as the characters are miming moves that they practiced against a guy in a blue unitard.
When the Tusken Raider attacked Luke in ANH, that scene had far more urgency, far more realism than the Yoda/Dooku duel because it was real. There was a real threat. Yes, that real threat was the rag-swaddled stunt coordinator with a glorified crobar, but he was still a real threat! He was a real, tangible threat! And that prop would hurt if he hit you with it!
CGI would only hurt if you threw a CPU at someone.
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And that's just it. Nothing was real. Nothing. There was no substance, like you said. There was no emotion and on the rare occasion that there was, it was so painfully and obviously forced that it felt as fake as the green screen effects we were watching. Without substance, there's nothing for the audience to connect with, which leaves the viewer empty, bored, confused, and minus whatever you paid to watch this crap. With nothing for the audience to really connect with, there's no purpose. Like Quickie said, everything looks fake and everything feels fake, and your brain notices it.
Someone asked before what the big deal was with the CGI Gophers in Crystal Skull. What you have to understand about film making is that things are kinda suppose to serve a purpose. This is one of the major flaws of Crystal Skull, in that too many things in that movie serve absolutely no purpose at all. When things lack purpose, they are noticed both consciously and sub-consciously. So when you put CGI Gophers in the movie for absolutely no reason other than to put them in there, it's a problem and it's a problem you tend to notice when it looks fake and feels fake.
It's no different regarding the difference between CGI Yoda & Muppet Yoda. CGI Yoda moves more, has more action scenes, and you get to see him bust loose with all his Force knowledge, but Muppet Yoda feels real. Despite the vast VAST difference in wisdom due to better dialog, Muppet Yoda is more alive, and you feel for him.
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They replaced puppet Yoda in TPM with a CG render, and judging by the render's quality, I suspect that they've had the render sitting around for a long time. Granted, compared to ESB Yoda, the puppet Yoda in TPM wasn't that good in quality, but I still prefer puppetry over CGI. For one, puppet Yoda was real. He was a real, tangible character that the actors could interact with.
Now, if only they had spent some more time on and put some more effort into building puppet TPM Yoda, they wouldn't have felt the need to replace him with even worse CGI... But, that's another rant concerning Lucas's love affair with 3DSMax entirely.
When actors lack something tangible to interact with, they need to fake it. And the audience notices that.
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Related- I recall the actors from the Willy Wonka remake expecting to have to walk past green screens pretending to see amazing things, and were actually quite surprised when they made a legit chocolate waterfall and legit environment. And it looks all the better for it. (no matter what you may think of the movie itself)
The thing about CG vs real props/sets is that the Human eye can tell the difference.
The Human eye can pick up the small details when something is CG. And its something which can become distracting, because you know it's fake, its not really there. Its just a trick.
However, with real props and sets, you cant really tell the difference. They look real, because as previously said, they ARE real. You dont have to fake the lighting on it to match the scene, you just shine the lamp on it with the rest of the actors, you dont have to fake the interaction either. You interact with it like any other actor, and you see the finished product as a little green alien as actually being a real alien.
Ships and space stations in the original trilogy looked so cool because they were props. Miniatures shot and edited to look full scale. Therefore, what you see, is a real spaceship made of real materials which really works. In the prequels however, its not as interesting due to just being able to work because its CGI.
If I recall, the CGI in the prequels wasnt exactly the best either. It was way too easy to tell what was real and what wasnt. In fact, I think that its one of the reasons why the movies are so uninteresting. Theres SO much CGI used, thats its like, an overload. Like when you have too many Twinkies or eat too much. Its an overindulgence of something so uncanny as CG sets environments and characters that you sort of get turned off by it all. I cant really explain what I mean... But its just that something about having SO much CGI, CGI which wasnt exactly the best either. But then again, they came out from 99 to 05, so I cant exactly judge them with comparison to today's CGI.
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Today's CGI really isn't much better. I haven't noticed an improvement at all.
CGI is fine for animation and an entirely-animated movie. That said, Avatar was a very pretty cartoon. A very pretty Ferngully remake. But CGI has become a crutch when it comes to special effects, producers trying to save money, and directors who would rather sit in their chair with their coffee as their giant neck continues to suck their brain matter.
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I would say CG as far as environments go, is definitely better than it was back then, or at least I think so. Its far less distracting. But I guess it all really boils down to what it is. what its supposed to be. A castle spire on Hogwarts? A corridor on the Death Star? a Waterfall? And depending on what it is, it is easier or harder to hide and conceal. Lighting also plays a key there as thats what usually gives it away. When the lighting comes off as uncanny. its perfect, but you can just tell.
OR,
All that really matters is if the movie itself is actually any good. Harry Potter uses its fair share of CG, but the movie itself is still a good movie, and the CG is used appropriately. As much as possible is prop. Especially indoors inside the castle,and even a fair bit outside, all of that is set. Unlike Lucas, who would rather make the simplest whitewashed corridor with no details- out of CG rather than making a set for it.
I was reading some magazine that discussed the final HP movie, and they talked about how the destruction of segments of the castle wasnt as simple as simply breaking sets, they had to make completely new sets that were purposely broken. That kind of effort really says something, and makes the end result much more personal, than CG.
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Indeed. And actors on a tangible set act far better than those on a greenscreen. Honestly, a number of sets in the Prequels could have been made without CG. Just get creative, people! It doesn't need to be on-location or constructed from extravagant and expensive materials, so long as effort is put into it and it looks good.
In ESB, Cloud City, not counting the carbon freezing chamber, control stations, etc, was a series of a couple rooms and a couple corridors. To make it seem bigger, some walls were moved, doors added or removed, lighting changed, shot angle changed, some set dressing here or there and viola! You have an entire segment of Cloud City! Did people notice or care? No! The audience still believed that the same hallway was actually five or six. All without the aid of CG, blue screen, and a treadmill.
And it still holds more water than the Jedi Temple.
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To give an example, they coulda made Tron: Legacy entirely in CG. It was even what was expected. But quite alot of those sceneries were built, even if it seems otherwise. It honestly shows.
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Another good example is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2dxypgCCu1qzzh6g.jpg)
Particularly this scene with the table. None of it is digital editing at all; all that is one actual set. Everything in the movie is, actually.
It's not green screen, it's not CG, it's real. And the movie is much better for it.
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CG can be a great tool, when it's done properly. A great example of this is in The Two Towers, when Theoden is freed from Sarumon's control. That transition was beautiful.
But with the prequels, everything is CG & Blue Screen'd. Everything. There's no feeling of wonder, no amazement at the beauty of the scenery because nothing is real. You talk about wonder, look at The Asteroid Field scene from ESB. I can't imagine seeing that scene for the first time in a movie theater. It's downright awe inspiring, as there had never been that fast paced a space chase seen ever seen before that. That kind of wonder leads to amazement and also suspense. Meanwhile, the beginning of ROTS looks and feels phony. There's no suspense at all. It's quite a feat to make a space battle feel that boring, but they managed to accomplish it.
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CG can be a great tool, when it's done properly. A great example of this is in The Two Towers, when Theoden is freed from Sarumon's control. That transition was beautiful.
Yeah, but the LOTR movies are naturally FILLED with amazingly-built sceneries. WETA must've worked for years and years in order to achieve that. Some of the Minas Tirith streets were built by hand and took quite alot of time for just seconds of footage. It's not weird for CG to look good in a movie which doesn't overuse it.
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Yeah, but the LOTR movies are naturally FILLED with amazingly-built sceneries. WETA must've worked for years and years in order to achieve that. Some of the Minas Tirith streets were built by hand and took quite alot of time for just seconds of footage.
Oh, absolutely. That's the point. LOTR was an example of CG used well, intermixed with incredible scenery, fully constructed sets, so that it still felt real. You could really believe that you were in Middle Earth. That's the goal of movies like that, to try to take you someplace you imagine in your fantasies, to transport you to new worlds.
The prequels accomplish nothing of the sort because it's all fake. There's no substance. If you watch the behind the scenes footage, all you see is just blue screen after blue screen, and soon you look at the actual movie and see nothing but blue screen after blue screen.
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Moral of the story: Dont overuse CG, and it will be a great way to complement the real parts of a movie.
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Well in terms of the prequels, the overuse of CG is just one of the many, many problems the films had. If the story was better, if the writing was better, if the characters were better, if the editing was better, if it was shot better, and so on, then the overuse of CG would probably not have been as big of a deal as it was.
Rise of the Planet of the Apes has a lot of CG, but it's still a very good movie.
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Well in terms of the prequels, the overuse of CG is just one of the many, many problems the films had. If the story was better, if the writing was better, if the characters were better, if the editing was better, if it was shot better, and so on, then the overuse of CG would probably not have been as big of a deal as it was.
Rise of the Planet of the Apes has a lot of CG, but it's still a very good movie.
Sin City was another movie in which almost everything was CG. But as it was meant not to look real, it complemented it.
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Indeed. And as I said, Avatar was a very pretty animated movie.
Of the Prequels, TPM had an okay balance of CG, puppetry, and real sets. If Lucas stayed that route, I probably would have been okay with it. There were a number of scenes in which Jar Jar was not CG, or at least not entirely CG. There were some scenes where Sebulba was a puppet. The shots were done on location, the wide shots were actual tangible miniatures built by ILM. The podrace arena? A full set. The audience were Q-Tips. The Theed palace on Naboo? Shot on location in Italy. The waterfalls in the Theed wide shot? Salt being poured over the set and filmed in slow-motion. There was a nice balance with the real objects and the CG.
I won't say much about the plot, but in terms of special effects and CG usage, TPM was the lesser of the three evils. It was in AotC and RotS where things got worse and sets were entirely digital and utterly fake. I've seen the production shots from RotS. Obi-Wan astride a blue blob, dueling with a stuntman in a blue unitard, against a blue background. Obi-Wan facing off against Blue Unitard Man against a green background with a wireframe overlay for the animators to mo-cap it. It's very, very, VERY limiting.
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Relevant to the topic...
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9241/1316566732767.jpg)
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XD
I love you, Deadpool.