Author Topic: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.  (Read 8076 times)

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Offline Thanatos-Zero

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Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« on: January 10, 2009, 06:22:49 PM »
Greetings members of Rockman PM.
Today I want you to teach you about things which are constantly and frequently asked in the world of Zelda, since many of play it too. This time we will talk about Ocarina of Time until Twilight Princess ( including Majoraīs Mask).
If you donīt believe me, just play the games again, so you will get and understand what Iīm saying.
So letīs start:


1st Question: Why has Link in the Child Ending of Ocarina of Time the Triforce of Courage on his left hand? Does it mean that he has take it from the Adult Timeline?

Answer: No, the Triforce of Courage is not from the Adult Timeline, it is from the Child Timeline.  As we know in The Wind Waker, that the Triforce of Courage has been splitt as Link (metioned as the Hero of Time) left Hyrule.  The splitt was caused by Zeldaīs timemagic, by sending Link back in time.
How Link get hold of the ToC in the Child Timeline, you  could call it a divine prank by the Goddesses like it was suggested by the TP Sages.

Maybe it is a reward of the Goddesses for Link, or his body has still been hold some energy of ToC from the AT, which caused a disbalance by the True Force in the CT, which lead to the splitt in the three fragments.
However, the existence of the ToC outside of the Sacred Realm cannot be denied.



2nd Question:  Iīm confused about the Child Timeline Ending. When Zelda has send Link back in time to a point,  before their first meeting, why was the Door of Time open and the Sacred Stones still on the altar? It makes no sense for me, since you couldnīt enter the Castle after the Bridge Szene with Ganondorf

Answer:  The answer lies in Twilight Princess. In the Sacret Grove there is a door, which can travel you through the time. If you enter it, you find yourself again in the Temple of Time with the identical Sound of OoT.
 If you compare now both Temple of Times, you see not just some different designs in it, but  the enterances from both Temple of Times are almost identical, if you include the different design.
The Temple of Time has itself time manipulating powers, so the conclusion is, that the Temple of Time in OoT has it as well.
With this we can see now, that we have two different Doorīs of Time in OoT and in TP. The first one is the massive door of stone, which protects the way to the Master Sword and most important the Sacred realm.
The other one is a door, which brings you literall through time.

Let`s make it short:
Link got back in time by Zelda, however this was only a stopover in his timetravel, because his and Zeldaīs actions where still in effect, as we can see that the DoT is open alongside with the Sacret Stones on the altar.
Zelda from the AT has activated the other Door of Time which is the entrance from the outside. When Link goes through it, he was no longer bond with the AT and this starts the Child Timeline. This has closed the roads between the times.

Link lacks now the Sacret Stone of the Kokiri and the Ocarina of Time, which he gave Zelda in the AT, also he will meet for the first time Talon and Malon.
Since Link has no longer the Ocarina of Time, it  confirms timetravel to the point before the first meeting has occured, that he got it from the Zelda of the CT, as we can see it in the Majoraīs Mask Fashback Szene.


Edit: Some informations were false.
<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uxElxRHyZYI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uxElxRHyZYI</a>



3rd Question: How did Ganondorf get the Triforce of Power, since he can not enter the Sacred Realm because of the Master Sword?

Answer:  That is right, Ganondorf although a chosen one, cannot pull the Master Sword out of the Pedestral of Time, because he has a evil, unpure Hearth. The holy sword it the final key, which prevent dark forces to enter the Sacret Realm.
Ganondorf gained his ToP, as Link get his in the CT, as seen in the ending of Ocarina of Time. (For more just read Answer 2)



That is all for the moment, so please read everything carefully what I have said.




Offline Align

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 08:59:57 PM »
So much fanon I don't know where to even begin unravelling it...

Let's start with #1. What says that the ToC was split by Zelda sending Link back in time? Yes, it's possible because we don't have any proof otherwise, but it's just as possible (though not quite as plausible) that the moon landed on it, smashing it in a dozen pieces.
And why is there no comment on the fact that the ToW was similarly split up in NES Zelda?
Also isn't it pretty clear by now that the Triforces are handed out to the most worthy regardless of everything else? TP Link was even born with it in him.
EDIT: probably shouldn't have cut out the part where I agreed this was because of the goddesses

Offline Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 09:21:29 PM »
It seems you havenīt played the from games which I have called and even so, you do not clearly watched the cutscenes.

TP Link was chosen from the Goddesses to hold the Triforce of Courage. The same goes for Zelda and Ganondorf. If you do not believe me, than ask marshmallow man about the japanese versions.
It makes me sick that people like you, do not want to understand.
I have played constantly OoT, MM and TP, so donīt tell me that the information which I have collected are void and nothing. PLay the games again, with the information, which I have written here.

Offline Align

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2009, 09:24:34 PM »
Or you could just answer my questions, which would take rather less than the 20+ hours of playing through the Zelda games.

Offline Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 10:02:04 PM »
Alright.

Quote
What says that the ToC was split by Zelda sending Link back in time?
The King of the Red Lions says to WW Link, that the Triforce of Courage got split as the Hero of Time left Hyrule. This was the moment were OoT Link, the Hero of Time got send back in time to a point, before he meet Zelda as child.

Quote
why is there no comment on the fact that the ToW was similarly split up in NES Zelda
OoT Zelda remained in the Adult Timeline along with the Triforce of Wisdom and the Ocarina of Time. The Triforce of Wisdom was passed down than in the royal family. The reason why it got split in two pieces, was to prevent Ganondorf from gaining the ToW as a whole. Also when it is split it is not recogniseable as the Triforce.

Quote
Also isn't it pretty clear by now that the Triforces are handed out to the most worthy regardless of everything else?
The wielder are chosen by the goddesses, this is why they gain the Triforce pieces. They are called chosen ones for a reason.


Offline Align

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 10:13:50 PM »
Alright.
Are we talking about the same game, with 8 dungeons, each with one piece of the triforce?
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Offline Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 10:36:25 PM »
Alright.
Are we talking about the same game, with 8 dungeons, each with one piece of the triforce?

It is similiar to the first Zeldagame , but Iīm talking about Ocarina of Time, The Windwaker (sequel to the Adult Timeline ending), Majoraīs Mask and Twilight Princess.
What mostly aplies to your question is The Windwaker. Tetra holds one piece and King Daphnes aka King of the red Lions the other piece of the Triforce of Wisdom. Combined they are a whole as the ToW.
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Offline Align

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 11:01:52 PM »
Uh. But I meant the original NES game. Wait, maybe I [tornado fang]'d up, I thought Ganon had the Triforce of Power then and Link had to collect the pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom...

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2009, 11:39:10 PM »
And why is there no comment on the fact that the ToW was similarly split up in NES Zelda?
Thanatos-Zero outright ignored this question when you first posted it, then responded in the context of Wind Waker and not NES, and that's what's causing the confusion.  Your take on the NES Zelda is correct, but I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion.



IMHO there is no greater exercise in futility than trying to make sense of the Zelda timeline.  Zelda games are generally built as adventures in themselves with their continuity addressed as an afterthought (case in point: Twilight Princess was originally supposed to be a Wind Waker sequel, then they decided Phantom Hourglass worked better).  Even when they do make an effort to establish some connection, they don't hesitate to brush over minor details (characteristics of the Sages).

There is little doubt in my mind that the split-continuity stemming from OoT was not established officially until they wrote TP out of the Wind Waker timeline during development.  Before that, there was no definite statement that the adult Link timeline from a game released eight years ago had been preserved.  And given the fact that the two periods remained linked, as presented in the Kakariko windmill scenario, arguing that they fork away from each other wouldn't have been easy.

The answers given in this thread are merely what is derived after the point.  Before the release of TP, it would have been an entirely different matter, especially when it comes to the status of the Triforce of Courage.  All that's out the window now, but I still have one problem with this timeline fork:

Why is it that Link, the Hero of Time, is the *ONLY* thing to not coexist in both time forks?  Zelda does, Ganon does, all Triforce parts do, and the Master Sword does.

I don't expect Nintendo to ever answer that one.  They might, but they probably won't.

Let`s make it short:
Link got back in time by Zelda, however this was only a stopover in his timetravel, because his and Zeldaīs actions where still in effect, as we can see that the DoT is open alongside with the Sacret Stones on the altar.
Zelda from the AT has activated the other Door of Time which is the entrance from the outside. When Link goes through it, he was no longer bond with the AT and this starts the Child Timeline. This has closed the roads between the times.

Link lacks now the Sacret Stone of the Kokiri and the Ocarina of Time, which he gave Zelda in the AT, also he will meet for the first time Talon and Malon.
Since Link has no longer the Ocarina of Time, it  confirms timetravel to the point before the first meeting has occured, that he got it from the Zelda of the CT, as we can see it in the Majoraīs Mask Fashback Szene. [/I]
First of all your URL is broken.

Zelda having the Ocarina of Time during the Majora's Mask flashback is no greater evidence of Link traveling to before their first meeting than Link having the Hylian Shield and Epona are of him going back to after said meeting.  What happened between Link meeting Zelda in OoT's ending and his departure in the Majora's Mask flashback is a complete mystery, besides that it spans multiple days.

How/where the Ocarina reappeared in child Link's time and when the OoT ending meetup with Zelda occurs isn't made clear.  You'd have better luck arguing on the grounds that it must be, at least, before Ganondorf makes his move on the Sacred Realm, since according to TP he is discovered and captured.

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Offline Align

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2009, 12:10:03 AM »
Your take on the NES Zelda is correct, but I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion.
Just thought it was worth a note, is all... Similar scenario.

Offline Zan

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2009, 12:34:53 AM »
Quote
IMHO there is no greater exercise in futility than trying to make sense of the Zelda timeline.

Figure out the Mario timeline, I dare you.

IMO, Zelda's jumbled timeline is on the level of futility of figuring out a Sonic timeline... which I've tried.

The Zelda Timeline at current time is doable. The timeline split is after all addressed in interviews:

–When does Twilight Princess take place?

Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

–And the Wind Waker?

Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there’s a scene showing Ganon’s execution. Link and Zelda left him be and he then did something outrageous, so it was decided that he should be executed. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...


With that figured out, the next oddity in the Zelda series would be the Seal War from OoT leading to LttP, but Capcom straightened it out with Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures. Furthermore, Four Swords Adventures gave us an account of Ganon's revival after WW, and in that way ultimately linked NES Zelda with Oracle.

Honestly, the Zelda timeline thanks to Capcom got straightened out a lot, even if LA is in understandable dispute between LttP and Oracle and Minish Cap is confusing with it's Light Force. But if MC was a pre OoT game as some theories go, then Vaati is in both WW and TP's timeline games, even though he only appeared in WW timeline games.

Let's see... If I recall it right, it goes as follows.

OoT>MM>TP>LCT

(MC)>OoT>WW>PH>(MC)>FS>FSA>LttP>(LA)||AST>>Z1>Z2>Oracle>(LA)


Quote
Why is it that Link, the Hero of Time, is the *ONLY* thing to not coexist in both time forks?  Zelda does, Ganon does, all Triforce parts do, and the Master Sword does. 

Because he's the only one doing the actual time traveling, naturally.

Quote
The King of the Red Lions says to WW Link, that the Triforce of Courage got split as the Hero of Time left Hyrule. This was the moment were OoT Link, the Hero of Time got send back in time to a point, before he meet Zelda as child.

Aside from in game quotes, I distinctly recall an interview in which they proclaimed the split Triforce was indeed caused by Link being send back in time. And this is indeed similar to how the Triforce of Wisdom was split by Zelda in NES Zelda.

Of course, the Triforce of Courage is also with Link that traveled back, and subsequently with TP Link. The heritage aspect of the Triforce in TP is interesting, since in all the games following the Wind Waker timeline don't have it, just like those are the only games with the split Triforce pieces. In that timeline, the mark of the Triforce for NES Link and Oracle Link are not the possession of the Triforce, but rather that he's the hero chosen by the Triforce.

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2009, 12:38:52 AM »
Honestly, the Zelda timeline thanks to Capcom got straightened out a lot, even if LA is in understandable dispute between LttP and Oracle and Minish Cap is unsure of wether it's a pre OoT or post WW game.

Capcom straightening out timelines?  That's just crazy!  XD

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2009, 12:44:16 AM »
With that figured out, the next oddity in the Zelda series would be the Seal War from OoT leading to LttP, but Capcom straightened it out with Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures.

Mind explaining how?

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Offline Jericho

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2009, 12:44:53 AM »
Figure out the Mario timeline, I dare you.

The world isn't ready for this. Also, I am absolutely shocked that no one has sarcastically drawn a picture of the Zelda cast in summer yet. XD

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2009, 12:48:17 AM »
The world isn't ready for this. Also, I am absolutely shocked that no one has sarcastically drawn a picture of the Zelda cast in summer yet. XD

Close Enough?

Offline Solar

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2009, 12:49:47 AM »
Forgot to ask...

Figure out the Mario timeline, I dare you.

Is there any reason to believe that it is not in order of release?

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Offline Zan

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2009, 01:03:30 AM »
Quote
Mind explaining how?

In many ways, both OoT and FSA depict the Seal War, but neither do it fully. LttP's story is about the two separate events combined. OoT is obvious, the names of the Sages match those of the Z2 town which were said to be named after the Sages that sealed Ganon. However, OoT does not fully depict it, there are elements unadressed that exist in LttP's story, not to mention, in WW, Ganon broke the seal and died. For OoT>LttP to add up, you simply need to have FSA in there. Afterall, the palace of the Four Sword exists in GBA LttP and Ganon is sealed away in FSA, where the events leading up to this sealing fill in the gaps of the story of the Seal War as LttP presented it.

Another point of FSA fixing OoT>LttP is about the same way FSA connects NES Zelda and Oracle. The connection lies with Ganon, his 'blue pig' form.
After the death of Ganon in WW, a new Gerudo leader is born with the name of Ganondorf. This Ganondorf soon becomes Ganon "ancient demon reborn" through the use of the Trident of Power, but he's sealed away. This new Ganon takes the form of a a blue pig wielding a trident. In LttP and subsequently in the timeline NES Zelda and Oracle, the blue pig with a Trident appears. The previous Ganon, WW and TP, never had the Trident and looked quite different, the old Ganon was always in human form until the final battle, the new Ganon never once reverted back to human form.

Quote
Is there any reason to believe that it is not in order of release?

Consider that there are several Mario sub-series. Donkey Kong, Wario occurring parallel to it. Then there's the gameboy games, RPGs by different makers and then there's the Yoshi Island backstory, and party and sports games thrown into the mix. Good luck.


Offline Hypershell

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2009, 01:05:22 AM »
I don't think Mario is the type of game where story is meant to be taken seriously, considering that the recurring villain is invited to most of the sports outings; several of which being immediately after his latest plot was foiled (DDR Mario Mix and Mario Party DS).

Sonic is iffy due to being reinvented with Adventure, but the manner in which games tie in is still fairly manageable.

With that figured out, the next oddity in the Zelda series would be the Seal War from OoT leading to LttP, but Capcom straightened it out with Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures. Furthermore, Four Swords Adventures gave us an account of Ganon's revival after WW, and in that way ultimately linked NES Zelda with Oracle.
Except that Eiji Aonuma stated that the Four Swords arc (Minish Cap, FS, and FSA) is prior to OoT, with the LttP notions being purely nostalgic.  Despite such references being extremely heavy in FSA, note that there is no reference to the Triforce, only to Ganon's trident.  Ganon's history is also something of a red flag, his heritage with the Gerudo isn't something that's likely to survive in a post-flood age where the land of Hyrule itself is legend.

It is possible that the "blue pig/trident" Ganon was sealed prior to OoT and resurfaced after OoT's Ganon died, but the manner in which that is relevant to the sealing war that is, or was supposed to be, OoT is kinda fuzzy.  But to state that FSA is post-WW contradicts developer interviews.

Quote
Because he's the only one doing the actual time traveling, naturally.
The Master Sword is time traveling as much as Link is.

Aside from in game quotes, I distinctly recall an interview in which they proclaimed the split Triforce was indeed caused by Link being send back in time. And this is indeed similar to how the Triforce of Wisdom was split by Zelda in NES Zelda.

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2009, 01:09:21 AM »
Quote
Except that Eiji Aonuma stated that the Four Swords arc (Minish Cap, FS, and FSA) is prior to OoT, with the LttP notions being purely nostalgic.

No, only Minish Cap is pre-OoT, how else do you explain Ganon as the final boss in FSA?

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2009, 01:13:03 AM »
I believe both Zan and I have made note of the FSA Ganon being a pattern break from the OoT/WW/TP Ganon, characterized by the trident among other things.

In FSA, Gerudo tribe members note Ganondorf as having defied their laws and entered a forbidden pyramid to obtain his trident, thus becoming the lord of darkness and all.  No way, no how, is that relevant to OoT's Ganon, who lacks such a trident, and knowledge of his ties to any OoT tribe in a post-WW world are unlikely to survive across the ages.  Ganon in FSA has no backstory beyond what FSA in and of itself presents, there's nothing within FSA that links him to OoT.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2009, 01:20:51 AM »
Quote
I don't think Mario is the type of game where story is meant to be taken seriously

That's why it's futile >.>

Quote
The Master Sword is time traveling as much as Link is.

Obviously Zelda sent Link back in time without the Master Sword >.>

Quote
Except that Eiji Aonuma stated that the Four Swords arc (Minish Cap, FS, and FSA) is prior to OoT, with the LttP notions being purely nostalgic.  Despite such references being extremely heavy in FSA, note that there is no reference to the Triforce, only to Ganon's trident.  Ganon's history is also something of a red flag, his heritage with the Gerudo isn't something that's likely to survive in a post-flood age where the land of Hyrule itself is legend.

Well aware of that statement "oldest tale". But that's just the Minish Cap question that still lingers. The tale of Four Swords starts with Minish Cap, which might or might not be pre OoT, making it possibly the oldest tale in the Zelda universe. But, Aonuma also implicated that the story of FS might have changed overtime, possibly discarding the other quote. Personally I would place Minish Cap after OoT for the sake of the timeline split and the Vaati seal in the new Hyrule, but nothing is stopping it from being pre OoT, especially since Vaati's backstory from MC to FS is lacking as much as OoT being the LttP Seal War is.

As addressed in my previous post, FSA>LttP is fairly solid, especially with the GBA LttP bonus dungeon.

Quote
In FSA, Gerudo tribe members note Ganondorf as having defied their laws and entered a forbidden pyramid to obtain his trident.  No way, no how, is that relevant to OoT's Ganon, who lacks such a trident, and knowledge of his ties to any tribe in a post-WW world are unlikely to survive across the ages.

It kinda of sounds like you're implicating FSA Ganon could have existed before OoT Ganon, though. The multiple connections between FSA, LttP, NES Zelda and Oracle, and ofcourse LttP to OoT, make this highly unlikely.
OoT Ganon might not have used a Trident, but it's surely an item very thematically close to WW's world of water. Considering how Ganon reincarnates due to it, a revival and death between WW and FSA to introduce the Trident is entirely possible. Or any other ways to introduce it. It's still a missing link, but I don't think it can be doubted that the order is indeed OoT>FSA and not the other way around.


....

So, anybody man enough to figure out where Tingle's game fits in?..

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2009, 01:43:57 AM »
Well aware of that statement "oldest tale". But that's just the Minish Cap question that still lingers. The tale of Four Swords starts with Minish Cap, which might or might not be pre OoT, making it possibly the oldest tale in the Zelda universe. But, Aonuma also implicated that the story of FS might have changed overtime, possibly discarding the other quote.
However, Aonuma's "oldest tale" quote refers to the original Four Swords, and he merely notes FSA as being a sequel to it.  The comments on the FS story changing are a reference to the development of Adventures, not the original.  While that comment may call his previous "oldest tale" statement into question, it does not invalidate it.

Consider this: The interview with the "oldest tale" quote is from the 2004 Game Developer's Conference, which was early March.  FSA's Japanese release date was March 18, 2004.  At no more than 2 1/2 weeks prior to the game's street date, any development disorganization referenced in the later quote had already passed.

Landmarks are the main thing linking FS and FSA to similar settings.  Landmarks, likewise, are what links FSA to the GBA LttP more definitively.  Ordinarily, there should not be definitive landmarks between games before and after Wind Waker.  But in the case of the Four Sword dungeon there is a loophole: the dungeon in the GBA LttP game isn't in Hyrule, it's in the Sacred Realm.

The lack of a Triforce reference in FSA is another real killer.

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Personally I would place Minish Cap after OoT for the sake of the timeline split and the Vaati seal in the new Hyrule, but nothing is stopping it from being pre OoT
FS and FSA are in the same physical area, the Four Sword and Vaati's seal being confirmation of such.  If there is no reason that FS cannot be before OoT, then there is no reason that FSA cannot be before OoT.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2009, 02:00:22 AM »
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However, Aonuma's "oldest tale" quote refers to the original Four Swords, and he merely notes FSA as being a sequel to it.  The comments on the FS story changing are a reference to the development of Adventures, not the original.

FS however is about the legend of Vaati, which is introduced in FS. Which muddles whether the oldest tale is FS the game or the legend of Vaati.

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Landmarks are the main thing linking FS and FSA to similar settings.  Landmarks, likewise, are what links FSA to the GBA LttP more definitively.  Ordinarily, there should not be definitive landmarks between games before and after Wind Waker.  But in the case of the Four Sword dungeon there is a loophole: the dungeon in the GBA LttP game isn't in Hyrule, it's in the Sacred Realm.

I actually think Ganon himself is the biggest link, and all in all, I consider it quite odd, by your proposal to have two Ganons sealed in the Sacred Realm at the exact same time. OoT Ganon sealed away into the Sacred Realm, and FSA Ganon sealed away in the Sacred Realm for LttP. How does that even work out? Two Ganons at the exact same time?... Even if they're sealed in different places, they're still the same "ancient demon" that was reborn in FSA. Two at the same time... It was already odd when we had two Zelda's, let alone two Ganons.

When it comes to FSA Ganon being "Ancient Demon Reborn", OoT is the original Ganondorf that became "Ganon." The power that turned him into Ganon is his own, not the legacy of a previous Ganon, unlike FSA Ganon.

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The lack of a Triforce reference in FSA is another real killer.

After the events of WW, the Triforce should be in the Sacred Realm.

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FS and FSA are in the same physical area, the Four Sword and Vaati's seal being confirmation of such.  FSA takes place wherever FS takes place, so if there is no reason that FS cannot be before OoT, then there is no reason that FSA cannot be before OoT.

What I meant is that MC can take place in quite a different Hyrule than FS and FSA, simply because Vaati is destined to recover from the MC events, kidnap some maidens and be sealed away. FS's account of Vaati's origins do not match with MC. As mentioned above, Ganon appears to dictate a post WW scenario for FS and FSA. So, Minish Cap, and thus the legend of Vaati can be the oldest tale in the Zelda series, but FS and FSA aren't necessarily before OoT.

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The comments on the FS story changing are a reference to the development of Adventures, not the original.

But FSA is the continuation of FS and could easily retcon Aonuma's statement of "oldest tale."

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2009, 02:19:43 AM »
I actually think Ganon himself is the biggest link, and all in all, I consider it quite odd, by your proposal to have two Ganons sealed in the Sacred Realm at the exact same time. OoT Ganon sealed away into the Sacred Realm, and FSA Ganon sealed away in the Sacred Realm for LttP. How does that even work out? Two Ganons at the exact same time?...
By no means (it was an idea, there are other ways to work it).  You permitted yourself a missing link between WW and FSA in your timeline, now I'll give you one between FSA and LttP: Ganon in FSA is sealed within the Four Sword itself.  There is no reference to this aspect of his sealing in LttP, nor in any other game that could conceivably occur after FSA.  Also, the Four Sword when last we see it in FSA is merged into one.  In the Palace of the Four Sword, you find four different swords.

Besides, the Palace of the Four Sword references the Four Sword concept, but there is no such palace in any of the Four Sword games.  Who's to say the location even ties specifically to a previous title at all?  On that same note, what part of FSA's ending confirms Ganon being sent to the Sacred Realm in the first place?

And, dare I say it, but has it occurred to anyone that the Palace of the Four Sword may be canonically questionable?  It's an unlockable feature dependent on your progress in the Four Swords multiplayer game, as well as having already defeated Ganon in LttP.  Is there anything validating its presence in the game before that?

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When it comes to FSA Ganon being "Ancient Demon Reborn", OoT is the original Ganondorf that became "Ganon." The power that turned him into Ganon is his own, not the legacy of a previous Ganon, unlike FSA Ganon.
FSA references an "ancient demon" and a "spirit of magic trident".  An ancient evil, yes, but not necessarily a past Ganon.

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But FSA is the continuation of FS and could easily retcon Aonuma's statement of "oldest tale."
I did some further research and edited my last post accordingly: The "oldest tale" quote was at Four Swords Adventures' imminent release, thus its story has already been established.  This despite the fact that Aonuma is referring to, "The GBA Four Swords Zelda" in that statement.

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Offline Zan

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Re: Zelda FAQ: Letīs summerize everything from OoT till TP.
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2009, 03:05:45 AM »
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By no means.  You permitted yourself a missing link between WW and FSA in your timeline, now I'll give you one between FSA and LttP: Ganon in FSA is sealed within the Four Sword itself.

I'm aware of that, but that should be where the Palace of the Four Sword comes in. Ganon ends up in the Sacred Realm, and so does the Four Sword. That can't be unrelated.

A point of interest here is the mirror from FSA, which is the same concept as the Mirror of Twilight and LttP's magical mirror. One sealed away a dark tribe long ago, the other sealed away the Twili long ago, the other is the link to the Sacred Realm and back and they might all really be the same...

Of course, we still have missing links in the Zelda timeline nowadays, but it's all a lot better now than it was in the past.

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I did some further research and edited my last post accordingly: The "oldest tale" quote was at Four Swords Adventures' imminent release, thus its story has already been established.  This despite the fact that Aonuma is referring to, "The GBA Four Swords Zelda" in that statement.

Followed by Aonuma saying the story changed then, so who knows if it still holds true. It could be akin to TP no longer being post WW despite early notions.

Which reminds, your landmark comment. If I were to argue it that, I'd say it's very much of note how FSA features a Hyrule surrounded by water. Which seems to be WW related. MC on the other hand does not... You know, thinking more about this supposed 'Light Force' and how this really ties in with nothing else, I'm also starting to lean to the pre-OoT placement of it. (Even if it's entirely confusing in relation to the origin of the Triforce.) But for FS>FSA, I do think that's the new Hyrule established after WW. Missing link Vaati creating the FS shrine - maiden kidnapping backstory in this time period.