RockmanPM Forums
Other Things => Gaming => Topic started by: VixyNyan on January 09, 2009, 08:28:11 PM
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Greg says (19:51):
Also, I just read an interesting idea by Nintendo
Greg says (19:51):
http://kotaku.com/5127251/nintendo-patent-reveals-potential-paradigm-shift-in-design
Rebecca says (20:16):
Oh I read it this morning. It's actually a helpful way for other people to get into a game. ^^
Greg says (20:16):
I think it's a great idea actually
Rebecca says (20:16):
Other "gamers" doesn't agree, especially at Gonintendo
Rebecca says (20:17):
They want the game to be harder. XD
Rebecca says (20:17):
In before those Tier players
Greg says (20:17):
They're not paying attention then
Greg says (20:17):
This takes NOTHING away from the actual game
Rebecca says (20:17):
It doesn't
Greg says (20:17):
You don't have to use it. The game can still be hard and challenging
Rebecca says (20:18):
I mean, I can just kick ass at it as much as I want, and if I show my accomplishments, someone else can benefit from it. It's win-win.
Greg says (20:18):
Exactly
Rebecca says (20:18):
^-^
Rebecca says (20:18):
Just like my game videos
Rebecca says (20:18):
And the Brawl replays
Rebecca says (20:18):
It shows that Nintendo has the technology
Greg says (20:18):
You're awesome Videos!
Rebecca says (20:18):
:3 meow
Greg says (20:19):
Go Nintendo Go! XD
Rebecca says (20:20):
They are visual guides, something I ALWAYS wanted to make ever since I had the ability to create websites
Rebecca says (20:21):
Video recording wasn't as easy to get into as it is now.
Rebecca says (20:21):
Back in the 90's, you always had to go buy a strategy guide or wait for a special issue of a magazine to get tips and tricks and help.
Greg says (20:22):
Yep
Greg says (20:22):
I remember those days
Rebecca says (20:22):
But now, we can just plug our game systems into our PCs, and record a small session of gaming, and it shows things more clearly, step-by-step. XD
Rebecca says (20:23):
Anyway, I'll use this system as much as I can, for others
Greg says (20:23):
Hurray for Technology! XD
Rebecca says (20:23):
Speaking of that technology, We already got those in Replay save data for games like Mario Kart. You could save "Ghost Data". :3
Rebecca says (20:24):
It shows how you can get a fast time on a course
Greg says (20:24):
Yeah, good point
Rebecca says (20:24):
That's how it all works really
Rebecca says (20:24):
It's "helping" the gamer
Rebecca says (20:24):
Not making things worse. They learn something from it.
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Doesn't this... ruin the essence of a "game"?
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Not really. Again, you don't ever have to use it. It just seems like an added option to those gamers who just can't seem to do it. Almost like a included vid GameFaqs.
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I still find it hard to see the point in this. But I bet my ass this is the first news on the new Zelda game. And I'd bet my entire ass.
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Where was this when I had Final Fantasy IX?! I got so bored of Disc 3, I stopped playing.
Mario Kart DS; watched vids to learn how to Snake.
Mega Man 9; watched speed runs, and now my latest score on Special stage is 02:36:78.
Mario Kart Wii; how on Earth did these guys get some of these times? This'll show it.
And I'm sure this is useful for other games, as well. I know Super Mario Galaxy has a few Purple Coins that the average person would probably never find (or not have the patience to find).
Anyway, this is optional, so no loss.
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I still find it hard to see the point in this. But I bet my ass this is the first news on the new Zelda game. And I'd bet my entire ass.
Your whole ass? I'll take that bet!
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This could also take the grinding out of RPGs, and make a character being a certain level canon.
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They should name this project " STOP BUYING OUR GAMES AND WATCH THEM ON YOUTUBE".
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This is interesting, no doubt, but I don't think I really get it x__x
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Bizzare. Yet also interesting. Trust Nintendo to create something this out-there. XD
But I bet my ass this is the first news on the new Zelda game.
Actually, that's pretty much what I thought.
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They should name this project " STOP BUYING OUR GAMES AND WATCH THEM ON YOUTUBE".
Seriously, despite their quite remarkable and noble intentions, Nintendo somewhat begins to [acid burst] me off regarding their casual gamer politics since they launched the Wii. Innovations are good and all, but in my opinion, Nintendo should stop all this experimental stuff. Well, the Japanese will most likely love it, but it annoys me somewhat.
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But it's making them a fuckton of money. There's no reason for them to stop.
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But it's making them a fuckton of money. There's no reason for them to stop.
Which pisses me off even more.
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Ahhh. So the Wii Sports announcement a few days ago probably didn't help either.
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Well, it's a potentially good idea. An immersive way for people to learn Expert tricks, or just cut out the bad parts of the game (say you bought a game, but it wasn't fun to you, just download a save, watch the game play itself out, take over for the final battle, voila. Done. Go trade it in for $$$).
Then, of course, it could be bad. Posted on YouTube, this could really spoil a ton of things, and result in a loss of sales.
We'll see.
EDIT: Oh, Wii Sports wouldn't have "sold" as many as it did if it weren't bundled with the Wii console. Yeah, SMB was bundled with the NES at times, but that game actually would have been bought, whereas Wii Sports would be nowhere if it weren't bundled with the console. Remember this when Wii Sports Resort comes around and doesn't sell.
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As if Tutorials wasn't enough. ^^;
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Ahhh. So the Wii Sports announcement a few days ago probably didn't help either.
I think I've made myself rather clear numberous times that I STILL oppose the Wii Remote and Nintendo's attract-people-who-would-never-play-videogames politics. Chances of me buying a Wii would have been far above 50% if that damn thing had a regular controller like all over consoles do. I may be quite ignorant on this, but I want to play my games the way I always did and I don't give a damn that you can play Smash Brothers with a GameCube controller, it's just ONE game.
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Isn't the Wii a console that relies on "doing it yourself"? I mean that's the entire philosophy behind the wiimote. Now making this is like cutting your own throat.
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The only saving grace so far is the Virtual Console, and some core Wii and WiiWare games.
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and some core Wii [...] games.
And MarioKart Wii isn't one of them.
*hides the sales charts*
BACK! BACK FOUL DEMONS! MARIO KART WII SUCKS!
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Again, this whole vid thing is simply an option to view during the game. An option. It means you don't have to use it. I don't see how adding options is ever a bad thing. Nor trying to expand on ideas and innovation.
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Again, this whole vid thing is simply an option to view during the game. An option. It means you don't have to use it. I don't see how adding options is ever a bad thing. Nor trying to expand on ideas and innovation.
Seconded.
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Two things, one Vixy, you've opened Pandora's [tornado fang]ing Box posting this one. XD
I would have done it but only after I got the full story on the whole thing. Secondly:
Seriously, despite their quite remarkable and noble intentions, Nintendo somewhat begins to [acid burst] me off regarding their casual gamer politics since they launched the Wii. Innovations are good and all, but in my opinion, Nintendo should stop all this experimental stuff. Well, the Japanese will most likely love it, but it annoys me somewhat.
[NeoGAF Pro-Nintendo Logic Activate!]
Not to single you out, but what it sounds like you're proposing is to basically forget this whole segment of the market who have never touched a game before in their lives and have proven themselves to be open to all different kinds of experiences "casual", "mainstream", or "hardcore" in order to pander to the niche and incredibly finicky hardcore gamers hand and foot. Mind you, this is how the Gamecube failed (granted it still brought in a good profit, it almost completely evaporated Nintendo's mind share to the public). You also have to keep in mind that now, more than ever, turning a profit takes a massive priority. I have a few qualms with this mindset myself, but hey what can you do? You also speak of their experiments as if it isn't in Nintendo's history to experiment and come up with some crazy [parasitic bomb] (i.e. "Ultra 64", SNES CD which led to the Playstation's birth by extension, [tornado fang]ing Donkey Kong which saved gaming period in the 80s, etc.). I'll wait before casting any judgements.
[/rant]
[gamer]
Still, for what little I understand of this patent, it seems like Nintendo is really creating one hell of a risky design choice with this experiment. Now instead of figuring out things by ourselves, the meat & core reason most of us play games, there's going to be a system of worldwide replays for a certain game spoiling how something might be tackled.
[/gamer]
But hell, all of this doesn't mean [parasitic bomb] to me if the games are great.
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[gamer]
Still, for what little I understand of this patent, it seems like Nintendo is really creating one hell of a risky design choice with this experiment. Now instead of figuring out things by ourselves, the meat & core reason most of us play games, there's going to be a system of worldwide replays for a certain game spoiling how something might be tackled.
[/gamer]
But hell, all of this doesn't mean [parasitic bomb] to me if the games are great.
But how is it going to be spoiling it? You simply don't look.
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Further NeoGaf speculation brings up some interesting possibilities:
There seem to be 3 main modes:
Game -- Play through the game normally. Hint system is available but not forced. So hardcore gamers could just play the game regularly and enjoy the challenge while more casual gamers can get hints if they get really stuck
Digest -- The game goes through important scenes (both movie and gameplay) in order. Essentially the game plays itself in this mode if you will. But you have the option of stopping the digest at any time and playing from that exact point. Plus when you choose to take control you are given the appropriate equipment and stats for that part of the game. No saving though, but it seems to be unneeded
Scenes -- essentially playthrough any puzzle or scene again. Like digest you are given the appropriate equipment and such.
What Nintendo is planning on doing is pretty insane and far more ambitious than some of you realize yet. This just might be the "gateway game" that gamers, casuals and non-gamers could all enjoy.
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Two things, one Vixy, you've opened Pandora's [tornado fang]ing Box posting this one. XD
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b39/FuegoEspada/Random/justasplannedbt01.jpg)
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The biggest problem is:
How many developers besides Nintendo will actually support this?
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Capcom, Treasure, Konami, Bamco, Squenix? Or none of them. Your pick.
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The biggest problem is:
How many developers besides Nintendo will actually support this?
I don't see that as a problem. I mean, most of us would never use it, and for those games that don't have it, there's always the Internet.
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But how is it going to be spoiling it? You simply don't look.
See, this is the important thing. "Hardcore" get their balls grabbed and thrown down stairs while "casuals" get to at least say they experienced the game. But you think teh internet liek casualz? 8D
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I can only see Kojima, self proclaimed storeyteller, making use of it. But he's also a graphics whore so he probably wouldn't develop for Wii.
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I think I understand this now, but I need to see it in action first to really give my opinion =/
EDIT: Oh, Wii Sports wouldn't have "sold" as many as it did if it weren't bundled with the Wii console. Yeah, SMB was bundled with the NES at times, but that game actually would have been bought, whereas Wii Sports would be nowhere if it weren't bundled with the console. Remember this when Wii Sports Resort comes around and doesn't sell.
Tell that to Japan.
Again, this whole vid thing is simply an option to view during the game. An option. It means you don't have to use it. I don't see how adding options is ever a bad thing. Nor trying to expand on ideas and innovation.
Agreed, but how can us gamers keep our reputation if we don't complain about every single thing XD
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See, this is the important thing. "Hardcore" get their balls grabbed and thrown down stairs while "casuals" get to at least say they experienced the game. But you think teh internet liek casualz? 8D
Look, this is a way for casualz to keep up with the talk of the hardcorez's or whatever you prefer to call them.
They won't feel stupid when they finally understand what a game is about. They don't want to feel left out.
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a game is about.
A game is about playing it.
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The biggest problem is:
How many developers besides Nintendo will actually support this?
I think this is going to be a strict Nintendo thing for a while. Here's food for the thought though, if this is really going to be showing up sooner as opposed to later in games, what games in particular shall use them?
*Points to the patent diagrams using funny mock-ups of The Legend of Zelda. You know that's what is was, don't argue. XD*
Stealth Zelda Wii hint confirmed?
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Again, this whole vid thing is simply an option to view during the game. An option. It means you don't have to use it. I don't see how adding options is ever a bad thing. Nor trying to expand on ideas and innovation.
The point is that they intend to virtually include a video walkthrough into the game. If you were to get stuck at some point, you could simply watch how it's done right. It is true that a lot of gamers, including myself, have relied on online gameplay videos, walkthroughs written by gamers or the company that produced the game in the past, but the difference here is that these assistances were EXTERNAL. You still had to look for them yourself. Fine, nowadays this is a matter of 10 seconds due to GameFAQs and stuff, but that NINTENDO wants to integrate such a system into their games is near blasphemy in my eyes. It takes the challenge out of these franchises, which have been around for 20 years and more and reduces them to a toy for infants. If you just rely on such assistances provided by the producing company, then there's no difficulty in the game anymore. It's like playing a a game with a GameShark and all available cheats enabled.
A game is about playing it.
A game is about playing and overcoming the trials and obstacles it throws at you. It the company intends to show you how to beat the game in the first place, then there's no need to make the game at all.
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*Points to the patent diagrams using funny mock-ups of The Legend of Zelda. You know that what is was, don't argue. XD*
Stealth Zelda Wii hint confirmed?
Aren't you late Jelly? Acid already bet his complete ass that this was for the newest Zelda.
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I think I'm going to bail out of this topic for a while, mainly because my funny ribs and sarcasm might be hard to detect at times. XD
Aren't you late Jelly? Acid already bet his complete ass that this was for the newest Zelda.
Yeah, I just looked back there and saw it. "You're too sloooow!".gif
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Tell that to Japan.
Granted, and it was sold individually in some countries (and I guess it is sold Used here in the U.S.), but Wii Sports Resort doesn't have a collection of well-known sports; it's a collection of beach games.
If it does sell, it's due to the bundling with the Wii MotionPlus.
A game is about playing it.
A game is about playing and overcoming the trials and obstacles it throws at you. It the company intends to show you how to beat the game in the first place, then there's no need to make the game at all.
It is, and this does hinder that a bit, but sometimes there are design flaws or extremely ambiguous details that this will help mask. It's a "solution" to a "problem".
Besides, there's still the matter of the story.
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A game is about playing and overcoming the trials and obstacles it throws at you. It the company intends to show you how to beat the game in the first place, then there's no need to make the game at all.
It only shows you how, big deal. You still have to do it, which in many cases it's easier said than done.
I think I'm going to bail out of this topic for a while, mainly because my funny ribs and sarcasm might be hard to detect at times. XD
I forbid you to leave this topic D:<
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I think I'm going to bail out of this topic for a while, mainly because my funny ribs and sarcasm might be hard to detect at times. XD
Casuals are human beings too. >U<
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To the hardcorez, they're aliens that are ruining the industry XD
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It only shows you how, big deal. You still have to do it, which in many cases it's easier said than done.
Even if it showed me how to get Wario's top time on Wario's Gold Mine, I'd still have one heck of a time trying to match that time with powersliding; guarantee you I'd fall off the course more often than not.
Pilotwings 64 could have used this.
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Pilotwings 64 could have used this.
I agree on this one~ x3
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Besides, there's still the matter of the story.
Nintendo's best selling, story-heaviest franchises are Metroid and Zelda. Metroid is pretty much dead (unless they revive it for this, LOL keep dreaming). And even Zelda is not so deep.
Anyway. I'm already tired of debating this. So I will just say one more thing:
I am happy that the 'video mode' is not mandatory, because there's no way I will ever use that for a game I'm interested in.
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Nintendo's best selling, story-heaviest franchises are Metroid and Zelda. Metroid is pretty much dead (unless they revive it for this, LOL keep dreaming). And even Zelda is not so deep.
Anyway. I'm already tired of debating this. So I will just say one more thing:
I am happy that the 'video mode' is not mandatory, because there's no way I will ever use that for a game I'm interested in.
10000x this.
Also Metroid. ;____________;
EDIT - You know something else that came to mind? Nintendo has a metric shitton of patented ideas good, bad and in between that have never hit the public. I will ROFL so hard if this all turns out to be Shiggy [tornado fang]ing with us all. XD
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Metroid's been dead since Nintendo decided to move it into 3D and drop 2D althogether.
Where's my [tornado fang]ing Metroid Fusion sequel??!
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Granted, and it was sold individually in some countries (and I guess it is sold Used here in the U.S.), but Wii Sports Resort doesn't have a collection of well-known sports; it's a collection of beach games.
If it does sell, it's due to the bundling with the Wii MotionPlus.
Isn't Wii Sports Resort whole purpose for existing to be a demo for Motion+ anyways?
Anyway. I'm already tired of debating this. So I will just say one more thing:
I am happy that the 'video mode' is not mandatory, because there's no way I will ever use that for a game I'm interested in.
I think this is something that we can all agree.
Metroid's been dead since Nintendo decided to move it into 3D and drop 2D althogether.
Where's my [tornado fang]ing Metroid Fusion sequel??!
Did you even play the Prime games? However, I agree about the Fusion sequel.
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there's going to be a system of worldwide replays for a certain game spoiling how something might be tackled.
This is my point. It's the same thing when the ConcreteMan & PlugMan stage run throughts were shown for MM9. I simply didn't look at them. I listened to the music, but I never watched the vids of the level design. Even if this replay data is shown on the net before the game comes out, it's a simple matter of not viewing it. So, the game is only spoiled if YOU look at it, not if someone posts it.
The point is that they intend to virtually include a video walkthrough into the game. If you were to get stuck at some point, you could simply watch how it's done right. It is true that a lot of gamers, including myself, have relied on online gameplay videos, walkthroughs written by gamers or the company that produced the game in the past, but the difference here is that these assistances were EXTERNAL. You still had to look for them yourself. Fine, nowadays this is a matter of 10 seconds due to GameFAQs and stuff, but that NINTENDO wants to integrate such a system into their games is near blasphemy in my eyes. It takes the challenge out of these franchises, which have been around for 20 years and more and reduces them to a toy for infants. If you just rely on such assistances provided by the producing company, then there's no difficulty in the game anymore. It's like playing a a game with a GameShark and all available cheats enabled.
Game -- Play through the game normally. Hint system is available but not forced. So hardcore gamers could just play the game regularly and enjoy the challenge while more casual gamers can get hints if they get really stuck
So wait...You HAVE used Online Gameplay vids to get through games, and your gripe with Nintendo is that they are giving you the OPTION to view it? That's hypocritical. What you're saying is that regular gamers can offer helpful vids, but the companies that make the game can't?
A game is about playing it.
A game is about playing and overcoming the trials and obstacles it throws at you. It the company intends to show you how to beat the game in the first place, then there's no need to make the game at all.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. A game is about one thing and one thing ONLY. Having FUN. It's Entertainment. It's Leisure Time activity. It brings NOTHING to the table in the grand scheme of life. It's SOLE purpose is entertainment. After all your power ups, all your ranks, all your speedruns, all your levels, all your points, star power, weapon gets, EVERYTHING, at the end of the game the question you have to ask yourself is "Did I Have Fun Playing It?" That's all that matters, more than game reviews or ranks, more than anything the game itself offers. All this Hardcore and Casual bullshit means absolutely NOTHING. It's all about having fun.
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Nintendo's best selling, story-heaviest franchises are Metroid and Zelda. Metroid is pretty much dead (unless they revive it for this, LOL keep dreaming). And even Zelda is not so deep.
Yeah, I'm starting to wonder how long Metroid can last. Ridley's been biologically revived, then re-killed.
Samus has lost her original suit TWICE, then gained it back in different ways.
We've had any number of Samus clones.
Supposedly, the last Metroid in the universe is dead (certainly after Fusion, that seems to be the case, although it's really easy to retcon this).
It just seems like anything they do would feel cheap, at best.
And no, LoZ isn't deep. Mario isn't deep. It's not the depth, here, it's the characters and evolution of the series and watching the events and twists unfold that's fun.
Isn't Wii Sports Resort whole purpose for existing to be a demo for Motion+ anyways?
I think this is something that we can all agree.
Did you even play the Prime games? However, I agree about the Fusion sequel.
Yeah, basically. Nintendo admitting, "...WHOOPS, eh heh, we should have done 1:1 in the first place, so here, buy our expensive bundle."
I agree with it. The "hardcore" won't, though.
Prime was fun, albeit a little aggravating. Where's the button that makes Samus "HOLY ****, WHAT'S BEHIND ME, I'D BETTER TURN 180 AROUND"? Or look at the enemy that last shot you.
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The last living Metroid after Fusion is Samus.
The most logical scenario will be -Samus Vs. the Federation-
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Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. A game is about one thing and one thing ONLY. Having FUN. It's Entertainment. It's Leisure Time activity. It brings NOTHING to the table in the grand scheme of life. It's SOLE purpose is entertainment. After all your power ups, all your ranks, all your speedruns, all your levels, all your points, star power, weapon gets, EVERYTHING, at the end of the game the question you have to ask yourself is "Did I Have Fun Playing It?" That's all that matters, more than game reviews or ranks, more than anything the game itself offers. All this Hardcore and Casual bullshit means absolutely NOTHING. It's all about having fun.
Amen
Yeah, I'm starting to wonder how long Metroid can last. Ridley's been biologically revived, then re-killed.
Samus has lost her original suit TWICE, then gained it back in different ways.
We've had any number of Samus clones.
Supposedly, the last Metroid in the universe is dead (certainly after Fusion, that seems to be the case, although it's really easy to retcon this).
It just seems like anything they do would feel cheap, at best.
The Fedaration had a [tornado fang]ing Metroid cloning facility in Fusion, and Samus is likely an outlaw now. Nintendo can go anywhere with the story.
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My [tornado fang]ing God, RPM is moving too fast for me to develop an opinion! XD
Game -- Play through the game normally. Hint system is available but not forced. So hardcore gamers could just play the game regularly and enjoy the challenge while more casual gamers can get hints if they get really stuck
So wait...You HAVE used Online Gameplay vids to get through games, and your gripe with Nintendo is that they are giving you the OPTION to view it? That's hypocritical. What you're saying is that regular gamers can offer helpful vids, but the companies that make the game can't?
This is pretty much the way I see it all. If we're attacking Nintendo for putting a service like this in their game, someone fire up the Delorean so we can remove Game Genies & Player's Guides from the past as well. The idea is it's up to you to find it and use it.
Posted on: January 09, 2009, 03:44:45 PM
The last living Metroid after Fusion is Samus.
The most logical scenario will be -Samus Vs. the Federation-
THEN where does it go?
*dun dun*
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The last living Metroid after Fusion is Samus.
The most logical scenario will be -Samus Vs. the Federation-
And she survived their little "plan".
Oh, this could get interesting.
EDIT:
Isn't Wii Sports Resort whole purpose for existing to be a demo for Motion+ anyways?
I think this is something that we can all agree.
Did you even play the Prime games? However, I agree about the Fusion sequel.
Yeah, basically. Nintendo admitting, "...WHOOPS, eh heh, we should have done 1:1 in the first place, so here, buy our expensive bundle."
I agree with it. The "hardcore" won't, though.
Prime was fun, albeit a little aggravating. Where's the button that makes Samus "HOLY ****, WHAT'S BEHIND ME, I'D BETTER TURN 180 AROUND"? Or look at the enemy that last shot you.
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See, Metroid is [tornado fang]ing awesome with the amount of potential it has... Hey wait, we're supposed to be debating patents in here! XD
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It's all about having fun.
I have fun playing games. Always have, always will.
After looking through this topic again, the rest of the members doesn't seem to feel the same way. o.o
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Did you miss PB's post?
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Did you miss PB's post?
I said the rest of the members. >U<
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Yeah, basically. Nintendo admitting, "...WHOOPS, eh heh, we should have done 1:1 in the first place, so here, buy our expensive bundle."
I agree with it. The "hardcore" won't, though.
I disagree. If this game offers perfect hand movement, and a new Star Fox comes out with the Option to use the Wii-Mote like a Flight Stick, the "hardcore" will do a [tornado fang]ing barrel roll with that thing!
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So wait...You HAVE used Online Gameplay vids to get through games, and your gripe with Nintendo is that they are giving you the OPTION to view it? That's hypocritical. What you're saying is that regular gamers can offer helpful vids, but the companies that make the game can't?
My point is that I think it is most odd that a company like Nintendo thinks their games are so hard people cannot beat it without assistance. I know it's supposedly just an optional addon, but the fact that they think such an option should be included in the games feels almost insulting. It's like "Oh, so here's our new game. You might have trouble with it, so we added a feature which shows you how to get it done." If Nintendo thought their games were too hard for the people, why not make them easier in the first place. Then again, something like that would probably cast away a lot of die-hard fans.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. A game is about one thing and one thing ONLY. Having FUN. It's Entertainment. It's Leisure Time activity. It brings NOTHING to the table in the grand scheme of life. It's SOLE purpose is entertainment. After all your power ups, all your ranks, all your speedruns, all your levels, all your points, star power, weapon gets, EVERYTHING, at the end of the game the question you have to ask yourself is "Did I Have Fun Playing It?" That's all that matters, more than game reviews or ranks, more than anything the game itself offers. All this Hardcore and Casual bullshit means absolutely NOTHING. It's all about having fun.
Of course a game is supposed to be fun. That's why it's a game! But where is the sense in that the producer of the game thinks that the player won't be able to complete the game and thus is getting frustrated, not having any fun and throws the game out of the window altogether and in order to prevent this from happening drops in a help system? Challenge, for me, is a major factor of having fun with a game. If it's so rediculously easy that I don't even have to play full attention to it, there's no fun in it.
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I said the rest of the members. >U<
So PB is not member anym...oh wait, mod >U<
Anyways, before someone else does it, I'll have to say that fun is subjective.
My point is that I think it is most odd that a company like Nintendo thinks their games are so hard people cannot beat it without assistance. I know it's supposedly just an optional addon, but the fact that they think such an option should be included in the games feels almost insulting. It's like "Oh, so here's our new game. You might have trouble with it, so we added a feature which shows you how to get it done." If Nintendo thought their games were too hard for the people, why not make them easier in the first place. Then again, something like that would probably cast away a lot of die-hard fans.
I see it more like "here, have this option to watch replays so you don't have to get away from the game and search the internet for a walkthrough."
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I disagree. If this game offers perfect hand movement, and a new Star Fox comes out with the Option to use the Wii-Mote like a Flight Stick, the "hardcore" will do a [tornado fang]ing barrel roll with that thing!
I wanted to comment on HyperSonic's comment, so thank you for bringing it back to light. You do realize that Nintendo heavily compromised the WiiMote from it's unveiling to it's actual production due t the parts being too expensive, right? We would be talking 100 dollars for a complete WiiMote+Nunchuk setup versus the $60 now, and even that was too high for them in hindsight. There's an article on this where Miyamoto & Iwata stated that they were kinda saddened that they had to tweak the specs of the Wii but they did so in order to make sure it wouldn't alienate the market. I don't know about you, but coming from a gen like last in Nintendo's situation with unstable enough legs market wise, I'd say they made the right choice.
And yes, if Sin & Punishment 2 is the shooter appetizer for a StarFox 64 topping StarFox Wii WITH MotionPlus support, I will trust my instincts and break through that fleet to the nearest damn retailer and buy two copies for the hell of it. XD
I said the rest of the members. >U<
I'd better not be one of those members. XD
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I disagree. If this game offers perfect hand movement, and a new Star Fox comes out with the Option to use the Wii-Mote like a Flight Stick, the "hardcore" will do a [tornado fang]ing barrel roll with that thing!
Bah, to me, such stuff is uncessary. And Nintendo apparently fails to get Star Fox done right since 64 anyway. I would have instantly bought a DS solely for Command but when I heard that you do everything with that stupid pen, I pretty much lost faith in Nintendo. Maybe I'm just to ignorant to innovation, but from my standpoint, Nintendo is pushing me away and towards the competion because they seek new ways of playing games. I got a PSP instead of a DS and a 360 instead of a Wii, simply because on these I can still play it the way I want games to be.
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I disagree. If this game offers perfect hand movement, and a new Star Fox comes out with the Option to use the Wii-Mote like a Flight Stick, the "hardcore" will do a [tornado fang]ing barrel roll with that thing!
If it's anything like Powersliding with the Wii Wheel, it would be a disaster.
The StarFox/Star Fox 64 side of me says to just play using the Wii Remote and Nunchuk, no pointing at the screen to shoot, waggling to Aileron (barrel roll), etc.
You do realize that Nintendo heavily compromised the WiiMote from it's unveiling to it's actual production due t the parts being too expensive, right? We would be talking 100 dollars for a complete WiiMote+Nunchuk setup versus the $60 now, and even that was too high for them in hindsight. There's an article on this where Miyamoto & Iwata stated that they were kinda saddened that they had to tweak the specs of the Wii but they did so in order to make sure it wouldn't alienate the market.
The Wiimote and Nunchuk prices were already astronomical, people were already complaining about 'em when the Wii launched. I just think they could have sent the Wiimote back to the drawing board until it was 1:1, but if Nintendo had already tried that and the price was way, way too high, then so be it.
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If it's anything like Powersliding with the Wii Wheel, it would be a disaster.
The StarFox/Star Fox 64 side of me says to just play using the Wii Remote and Nunchuk, no pointing at the screen to shoot, waggling to Aileron (barrel roll), etc.
More than likely, this will be an option as well. However, seriously, MotionPlus and Star Fox just sound right for one another imo.
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I liked Star Fox Assault... :'(
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I never got a chance to play it. :'(
It only sounded like story and amount of time flying were the only two criticisms though. Maybe floaty Arwing physics. '>.>
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Bah, to me, such stuff is uncessary. And Nintendo apparently fails to get Star Fox done right since 64 anyway. I would have instantly bought a DS solely for Command but when I heard that you do everything with that stupid pen, I pretty much lost faith in Nintendo. Maybe I'm just to ignorant to innovation, but from my standpoint, Nintendo is pushing me away and towards the competion because they seek new ways of playing games. I got a PSP instead of a DS and a 360 instead of a Wii, simply because on these I can still play it the way I want games to be.
In other words, you're a purist. Am I right?
I liked Star Fox Assault... :'(
So did I, but remember, different is bad D:
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More than likely, this will be an option as well. However, seriously, MotionPlus and Star Fox just sound right for one another imo.
Careful.
We all thought Command's stylus-control would be "an option", too. :|
I liked Star Fox Assault... :'(
Star Fox Assault was fun! ...until the on-foot gameplay started to wear on everybody.
It only sounded like story and amount of time flying were the only two criticisms though. Maybe floaty Arwing physics. '>.>
On-Rails Arwing: Two main complaints. One being the lack of distinction between scenery and colliding objects, and two, the last level where tons of enemies and bullets would be fired from behind you, with little to no warning.
All-Range Arwing: This is probably what you're referring to. Compared to the stages, the Arwings were HUGE. On top of that, skimming your wings was incredibly easy to do, so you took damage, and didn't know how it happened until too late.
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Careful.
We all thought Command's stylus-control would be "an option", too. :|
True, that's why I didn't get it. I didn't give the controls a chance though, so it may not be as bad as I thought.
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Assault was fun during the flight missions. The rest was... meh.
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My point is that I think it is most odd that a company like Nintendo thinks their games are so hard people cannot beat it without assistance. I know it's supposedly just an optional addon, but the fact that they think such an option should be included in the games feels almost insulting. It's like "Oh, so here's our new game. You might have trouble with it, so we added a feature which shows you how to get it done." If Nintendo thought their games were too hard for the people, why not make them easier in the first place. Then again, something like that would probably cast away a lot of die-hard fans.
There are gamers out there who think that the classic MM games are "hard" when they're painfully easy to someone like me. If Capcom added an option to the game to show them how to get through it, it doesn't mean that they'll still be able to actually do the specific motions to actually get through it. Plus, it doesn't mean that we, as gamers, have to use it, just like we don't have to use the Net. It's not insulting. It's just an option to help the people who can't quite find that Key in the Forest Temple, or something like that. Again, I never see more options and trying something new as a bad thing. I mean, I'd never use the vids. I've never used any kind of vids. Hell, the only thing I ever really used GameFaqs for is for Pokemon info.
Of course a game is supposed to be fun. That's why it's a game! But where is the sense in that the producer of the game thinks that the player won't be able to complete the game and thus is getting frustrated, not having any fun and throws the game out of the window altogether and in order to prevent this from happening drops in a help system? Challenge, for me, is a major factor of having fun with a game. If it's so rediculously easy that I don't even have to play full attention to it, there's no fun in it.
Believe me, I love a challenge too. It's why I didn't like EXE6. The game was shamefully easy. However, I'm older. Challenge, for us, is an important factor of having fun. However, I look at someone like my friend Dave. Due to being older and having to go to work and life and all that, he doesn't have the time to sit and enjoy a Final Fantasy game like he used to, so he GameSharks the hell out of it cause he still wants to play it and go through the story. That's what he finds fun.
Also, this was my case for Wii Music as well. No, it's definitely not a traditional game by any stretch of the imagination, and it's not even doing that well. However, I got the game for my soon to be 5 Year Old niece tomorrow, and she absolutely loves the game. She has so much fun playing it. She also likes Super Mario Bros, DBZ: BT3, and Legend Of Zelda, even though she has very little clue what's she's doing. But, she's still having fun, and that's what matters to me more than anything else.
Bah, to me, such stuff is uncessary. And Nintendo apparently fails to get Star Fox done right since 64 anyway. I would have instantly bought a DS solely for Command but when I heard that you do everything with that stupid pen, I pretty much lost faith in Nintendo. Maybe I'm just to ignorant to innovation, but from my standpoint, Nintendo is pushing me away and towards the competion because they seek new ways of playing games. I got a PSP instead of a DS and a 360 instead of a Wii, simply because on these I can still play it the way I want games to be.
And that's the point. You have fun playing games the traditional way. Others have fun playing games the Wii way. That's the point of it all. To have fun. Believe me, I agree with you. I HATED the Star Fox DS controls. They should've added in the option to play it the traditional way. That's my point when I believe that adding options is always a good thing. It's not that you're ignorant to innovation. It's that the Wii simply doesn't appeal to you, which is fine. Myself, I love the MoteChuk combo for certain games, and the GC Controller for others. I mean, holy [tornado fang] do I love me some Kamehameha action with the MoteChuk! XD
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True, that's why I didn't get it. I didn't give the controls a chance though, so it may not be as bad as I thought.
Eh, if you have a thumb-stylus, it's okay. Otherwise, hoo boy, it's nuts.
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I liked Star Fox Assault... :'(
I fell in love with the game when I saw the first few seconds of the teaser trailer in highly detailed graphics. THEN I saw how the actual game looked and was shocked. And on foot missions in game which is based on DOGFIGHTS is simply a no go. Since the game would feature a bigger part of it's gameplay in that way after Adventures was more of a placeholder until Nintendo could get a Zelda going, I gave the game a chance. The first level was awesome and it was just like 64. But after that, it was crappy. I felt like the first level was made by an entirely different team than the rest of the game and I recall even IGN noted that. Assault was too sloppy, too slow and too undynamic and, normally I go not judge a game for it's graphics but, the game looked horrible, ESPECIALLY after you had seen what Rare was able to pull of in Adventures.
In other words, you're a purist. Am I right?
I wouldn't go that far since I started gaming with the N64 and not the earlier consoles (I did have a SNES before that, but I really started buy games on my own with the N64), but I simply begin to miss the way games (or pretty much everything else entertaimentwise) they were back in the 90s.
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but I simply begin to miss the way games (or pretty much everything else entertaimentwise) they were back in the 90s.
Oh, I think we all do at times.
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but I simply begin to miss the way games (or pretty much everything else entertaimentwise) they were back in the 90s.
Don't we all?
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Bah, to me, such stuff is uncessary. And Nintendo apparently fails to get Star Fox done right since 64 anyway. I would have instantly bought a DS solely for Command but when I heard that you do everything with that stupid pen, I pretty much lost faith in Nintendo. Maybe I'm just to ignorant to innovation, but from my standpoint, Nintendo is pushing me away and towards the competion because they seek new ways of playing games. I got a PSP instead of a DS and a 360 instead of a Wii, simply because on these I can still play it the way I want games to be.
May I ask you a question though? How far into the future do you see yourself playing games in the same manner over and over again? You'll probably tell me as long as you can, but admit it every now and again, there are some interesting ways that typical control pad games can be freshened up. This is what Nintendo is trying to get right at this time. Execution is only in the infancy stages (hence so many big stinkers and waggle/touch fests where normal controls would have been fine) but the results are already in though, more people think that it's better to have an interesting interface and gameplay than bigger and better everything.
My opinion is however that we should get a balance of big highly enjoyable games and great new ways to play/enhance gameplay. That's a pipe dream as long as everyone sees themselves on two sides of the spectrum instead of just gamers.
Oh, I think we all do at times.
Quoted for everlasting preservation.
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My opinion is however that we should get a balance of big highly enjoyable games and great new ways to play/enhance gameplay. That's a pipe dream as long as everyone sees themselves on two sides of the spectrum instead of just gamers.
Agreed, the whole casual/hardcore is what I hate the most about this gen.
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Agreed, the whole casual/hardcore is what I hate the most about this gen.
It's just a small part of a whole mess of social problems and conflicts between differently-minded people that has been brewing since the late 80's, early 90's.
I don't know if the pot will overflow, or if everyone will collectively turn the heat down, but mind you, this is nothing new. Sure, gamers have been competitive (oh, I'm bad about this), but the heights of elitism that people are now trying to paint themselves with beats all I've ever seen.
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I mean, don't get me wrong. I 100% Love my Wii. I have more games for it than I do my 360 & PS3 combined. However, do I enjoy it more than my SNES or N64? Probably not.
I mean, take Mario Kart Wii for example. They tried new ideas. Some I liked and some I hated. It's by no means a better game than Mario Kart 64, and it never will be (MK64 bias aside). But, they do have to try to be innovative. It's how the industry grows, and the industry always has to grow. I'll sometimes agree with it and I sometimes won't, but I understand the need to try to grow.
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That's truly not even the best way to emphasize this issue HyperSonic. Remember the 90s that people so fondly note for great and varied experiences in gaming? Around that time, the main video gaming demographic was aged 6~16 (don't quote me completely on this, I'll update with relevant info), i.e. people were developing games aimed mainly at kids who were too young to judge games for having off pixels, bad art or not enough Mode 7/Blast Processing. So while you still had your crap, the gems were true gems that ANYONE could appreciate.
Fast forward to now where the target is a primarily older dominated group age 18~34. Now this group believes themselves to be entitled to a certain type and degree of game at all times. They might have existed in the past before, but now due to their profound numbers the market has no choice but to cater to them more if they hope to make a profit. This in turn leads to stifled variety on top of a lot of other issues when the elitism starts dictating what makes a good game period. It's disgusting to say the least and I have a profound resentment for this because it's these people that are killing gaming.
I mean, don't get me wrong. I 100% Love my Wii. I have more games for it than I do my 360 & PS3 combined. However, do I enjoy it more than my SNES or N64? Probably not.
I mean, take Mario Kart Wii for example. They tried new ideas. Some I liked and some I hated. It's by no means a better game than Mario Kart 64, and it never will be (MK64 bias aside). But, they do have to try to be innovative. It's how the industry grows, and the industry always has to grow. I'll sometimes agree with it and I sometimes won't, but I understand the need to try to grow.
Honestly, it's that need to grow and evolve that I've always found interesting with the video game market primarily, but al this gen has shown me is that it's going to take QUITE some time before anyone can hope to top the SNES/Genesis or N64/PSX/Saturn days.
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Honestly, it's that need to grow and evolve that I've always found interesting with the video game market primarily, but al this gen has shown me is that it's going to take QUITE some time before anyone can hope to top the SNES/Genesis or N64/PSX/Saturn days.
LoL, asking the gaming industry of today to top the games we grew up with and loved is a VERY hard task.
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I am truly of the belief, nostalgia aside even, that those games were infinitely more creative and daring than most things we've seen so far.
The potential is there to surpass it all though. In the meantime, just pick and play everything, find something you like and compliment the makers of the gems, why is that so hard to do?
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LoL, asking the gaming industry of today to top the games we grew up with and loved is a VERY hard task.
Nowadays I get the feeling that games were made with more love and care back in the old days than they are today.
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Nowadays I get the feeling that games were made with more love and care back in the old days than they are today.
Of. Course. They. Were!
Nowadays, the gaming industry can be compared to the movie industry in the idea that all focus goes to one type or particular game and the stragglers are just shoddy works left to die. There is no amazing creativity, just "what the [tornado fang] can I rally off of in order to turn a quick buck?" Sure, you can say that it's the nature of all business, but something about the video game industry sounds like it should have already found a way above this.
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It's more controversial than innovative, if at all.
Sounds like "lol we can't make entertaining enough games/good enough tutorials/intuitive enough systems for casuals to get hooked and PLAY them, so we'll just give them a ride with all the tricks. LOL IT PRINTS MONEY"
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. A game is about one thing and one thing ONLY. Having FUN. It's Entertainment. It's Leisure Time activity.
I respectfully disagree to your disagreement, PB. Games are ONE kind of entertainment among MANY.
I think a book shouldn't turn into a movie by itself just because I find one chapter to be a [tornado fang]ing pain in the ass just to get to the page in which Dumbledore dies. A movie shouldn't morph into a video game just because it's not keeping me entertained. Why should a video game turn into a movie? (in during MGS4 jokes)
If you think you are going to whine because you used your money on a game because it's difficult and you want to check out the cutscenes: a) You may be 4 years old. Wait 15 years. b) Wait for the [tornado fang]ing movie, or rent Advent Children.
And about the cheating/checking out walkthroughs, it's just a matter of pride, but it's annoying. It's as if the "Winners don't do drugs" slogan was changed into "Many winners do drugs. Here, have some pills". Of course you know winners do drugs, yourself included, but do you think it's as easy to just have fun winning or losing by your own, drug-less means? (you'll probably say yes because you or someone else has a MIND OF STEEL). Also, there's the thing that there will probably be stuff to 'outdrug' drugs themselves (huh...player created content, perhaps). Why add redundant layers of drugs? (damn this metaphor is awesome)
tl;dr communism, it could work, but why bother afterwards?
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Nowadays I get the feeling that games were made with more love and care back in the old days than they are today.
It's possible, yeah. But those were also simpler times, in terms of gaming. I don't know if say, the classic MM series has more love & care than say the Zero Series. I just enjoy them more. I enjoy them more than the X series even. I don't know if it means their was more love and care, but it's possible cause they had a lot less to work with then today.
As I've said before, I really do believe that the net made a lot of gamers an inpatient lot. Nowadays, we know almost everything about certain games before they come out. Not to mention so many sites that rate the games and everything like that. I mean, Sonic Unleashed is a good example of that. The game is rated poorly, from what I understand. But I tried it anyway and I loved it. However, a lot of gamers tend to foolishly base their opinion of a game based on the opinions/reviews of others, and I think "that's no good!"
Nowadays, the gaming industry can be compared to the movie industry in the idea that all focus goes to one type or particular game and the stragglers are just shoddy works left to die. There is no amazing creativity, just "what the [tornado fang] can I rally off of in order to turn a quick buck?" Sure, you can say that it's the nature of all business, but something about the video game industry sounds like it should have already found a way above this.
I tend to disagree here. Despite my complaining about Hollywood and their utter lack of creativity, there are still sparks of hope amidst all the shame. A perfect example of this is Pixar Studios. Pixar, in my honest opinion, is the best movie studio out there today. They make NOTHING but great movies, each one of them unique and a gem. WALL-E was my 2nd favorite movie of last year, only beaten by The Dark Knight. WALL-E was a gamble, due to the movie having no real speech during the first half of it, and it's considered a kids movie. But, it was sheer brilliance and a masterpiece of a flim.
Sometimes we get an Okami or something like that. Hell, Ninja Lou tells me of this Sega game, Valkyrie Chronicles, that's supposedly an excellent game that no one's buying. In the long run, that's what I think Nintendo is trying to do, in terms of being creative. I just look at Super Mario Galaxy to see the amount of love that was put into it. It's not for everyone, but the Level Designs, the Music, and all of that are simply beautiful to me. Yes, the Wii has an ample amount of [parasitic bomb] put forth on it's system by companies looking to make a cheap buck. However, there are also the Zack & Wiki's, the Boom Blox, the No More Heroes, and the Secret Rings games that come out occansionally.
I respectfully disagree to your disagreement, PB. Games are ONE kind of entertainment among MANY.
I think a book shouldn't turn into a movie by itself just because I find one chapter to be a [tornado fang]ing pain in the ass just to get to the page in which Dumbledore dies. A movie shouldn't morph into a video game just because it's not keeping me entertained. Why should a video game turn into a movie? (in during MGS4 jokes)
Exactly. It's one kind of entertainment among many. Your statement does not disprove my point. My point still stands that at the end of the game, you have to ask youself, "Did I Have Fun With It?" It's the same question you have to ask yourself after reading a book or watching a movie.
And about the cheating/checking out walkthroughs, it's just a matter of pride, but it's annoying. It's as if the "Winners don't do drugs" slogan was changed into "Many winners do drugs. Here, have some pills". Of course you know winners do drugs, yourself included, but do you think it's as easy to just have fun winning or losing by your own, drug-less means? (you'll probably say yes because you or someone else has a MIND OF STEEL). Also, there's the thing that there will probably be stuff to 'outdrug' drugs themselves (huh...player created content, perhaps). Why add redundant layers of drugs? (damn this metaphor is awesome)
Pride is one thing, but pride carried too far is foolishness.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with the point of cheating. I mean, I was just having this conversation with Lou yesterday about people who master the absolute cheapest way to beat someone in the Capcom Vs. Fighting Games, like the person who used the Cyclops infinite in X-Men vs. Street Fighter, or the God Tier in MvsC2. There's no real sense of pride in either playing these people or even beating them.
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...Valkyrie Chronicles...
VALKRYIA CHRONICLES. Get it right! (I have to defend this brilliant game one way or another. XD)
Also, you actually didn't disagree with what I was saying before about my movie industry = video game industry comparison, you fleshed it out further than I did, and I completely agree.
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That's the bridge we now have to cross with video games.
And it's not so much that the internet has made us picky, as much as it is that we are now older, more capable, but with less time to dedicate to mastering any one particular game. You then hit a game (let's just continue using Sonic Unleashed) where it's now glaringly obvious that some parts of the game clash with the player (which is often). Or, say a game like LoZ: Twilight Princess. Fun, yes, but for only one 100% playthrough, and even then, it's way too easy. Then again, you could have a game like Metroid Prime 3 where you feel like you could Game Over at any time, and you can't save just anywhere like LoZ.
The disconnect is when the games are no longer of the same quality. Subjective enjoyment aside in terms of cast or aesthetics, there are now a number of games that don't even equal their predecessors (some are even worse, Starfox Command compared to Starfox Assault, or the dungeon designs in LoZ:TP compared to LoZ:WW). This drop in quality was unfortunately timed alongside the execution of the Big 3's new attempt at mass appeal, causing finger-pointing.
This is not to say great games aren't still being made. Personally, Mega Man 9 and Super Mario Galaxy (while not necessarily in my Top ___) have far outshone a lot of older games. There have also been plenty of wacky ideas that have taken off (Patapon, Katamari Damacy, Pikmin, Puzzle Quest) alongside a number of new series that are still fairly traditional (Halo, Kingdom Hearts, Tales Of, etc.).
It's the quality of the game that counts. It's why people are sharing their opinions over the entire internet; we're exchanging information in hopes that it will progress our pasttime further, especially after aggravating laments over "the games that could have been", and the buyer's remorse that follows (which has lead to increased piracy).
I would call into question how effective this has been, though, seeing as how we can't get ONE Sonic game that plays like a Genesis game, or a Star Fox game to play like the first and best 2 entries into the series.
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my opinion on this matter: i don't care. if it's there, whatever. i may take a look, i may not. what i can say, though, is that complaining about something that you don't ever have to use is just as ignorant as PS3 fanboys bitching when they lose an exclusive. it's something to make everyone happy. it's a win-win situation. it's time to get off your high horse and realize that it shouldn't affect you at all.
DICE has actually made video walkthroughs for each level in Mirror's Edge available on XBL and i assume PSN. i haven't checked them out myself, for the catch here is that they cost money. $1 per level. Ninty isn't DICE, i know, but is it too farfetched to think that Ninty might not make this mode accessible right away? this system could be a patch via WiiWare, might cost some amount of Wii Points, or just be hidden within the options menu.
i'm led to believe "casuals" don't check game options before or during when they play games. hell, i imagine most "hardcores" don't either. and as we all know, no one reads the manuals. i wouldn't be surprised if some people couldn't even find the option to turn the mode on.
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my opinion on this matter: i don't care.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/Serpentara/brilliant.jpg)
So they're considering including video walkthroughs. Zipadee-doo-dah. Oh, what's that, it's an incredible disaster that the player can jump in in the middle of one?
Then DON'T USE IT. It's as simple a concept as a blue bomber veteran not choosing Easy Mode in a MegaMan ZX game. It's not that ground-breaking, folks. This is targeted at people who either need a hand or are just plain bored/shameless. If you fall into none of those, then it shouldn't concern you. I thought the hardcore gamers were supposed to be good at figuring out menu options?
The disconnect is when the games are no longer of the same quality. Subjective enjoyment aside in terms of cast or aesthetics, there are now a number of games that don't even equal their predecessors (some are even worse, Starfox Command compared to Starfox Assault, or the dungeon designs in LoZ:TP compared to LoZ:WW). This drop in quality was unfortunately timed alongside the execution of the Big 3's new attempt at mass appeal, causing finger-pointing.
This is not to say great games aren't still being made. Personally, Mega Man 9 and Super Mario Galaxy (while not necessarily in my Top ___) have far outshone a lot of older games.
This post just proves how subjective gaming is. For as much as I wish Star Fox Command had a traditional control option, there is NO WAY I would call it worse than Assault, quite the opposite. Assault was by far the worst game of the franchise to me. And I'm none too fond of Command's art style, I just truly believe it plays better. Likewise I do not see any advantage design-wise of either TP or WW dungeons over the other, they are both very expansive and engaging, but neither are superior to the other on any objective scale that I can imagine (and I'm trying to set my own preferences aside; I'll admit I prefer TP for style reasons).
I don't know if it means their was more love and care, but it's possible cause they had a lot less to work with then today.
Well, it's a fact, there IS a lot more work to game creation today. But I don't find the old superior to the new in that kind of "Classic vs ZX" (so sue me, I think Zero-series could have done better) way. IMO they both have their own unique charm. And they both have their low points, too. Even the oldies aren't perfect, if Classic MegaMan selection was limited to, say, 4-6, it would carry a lot less weight with me.
To some degree I think that format restrictions, which technology is more and more breaking away from, can actually contribute to design. Speaking from experience on RM2K here: When you're getting creative, and you're given a box, one of the most exciting ways to work is figuring out how to break it. Hell, that's how we wound up with the now-traditional boss halls; they thought they made the stages too big for the NES to handle normally (turned out to not be the case anyway). When you take that box away, for some people it can make it harder to get the juices flowing. More than once there have been complaints about how as games get more realistic they also often get more generic. I don't think that's any coincidence.
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This sounds like a great way to dial up the difficulty and yet still allow casual players to progress through the game, I fully endorse it.
but I simply begin to miss the way games (or pretty much everything else entertaimentwise) they were back in the 90s.
I don't. 90% of games back then sucked, just like now. Noone remembers them though, which makes sense as they weren't worth remembering.
Posted on: 2009-01-10, 00:01:27
Getting pissy over this is like getting pissed off over easy mode in any given game.
I've been waiting for Nintendo to finally realize that something as simple as DIFFICULTY LEVELS would help their games so much in appealing to both casuals and the "hardcore" crowd. This is basically the same thing.
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OK, it would seem as though more people and developers are starting to put in little bits of thought on this patent. Kotaku has a few choice quotes from 4 big name devs who have varying opinions on this new design idea:
Ben Mattes, Producer of Ubisoft's Prince of Persia
"I read through it quickly, but I'm not sure I fully understand it yet. It makes sense to me in a purely linear game, but as soon as we get sand-box, or even remotely open ended, the number of variables would seem to invalidate the potential of this system.
"ie: I'm in Fallout3 and have focused energy on sneak and unarmed combat. If I'm in a particular point in the game I can't pass, and I use this system, what 'recording' could the game know to use? It can't possibly have developer walkthroughs of all possible configurations of a character and strategies to pass through each in-game challenge. More likely as not, it would have one 'right' way to pass through a particular challenge...
"That said, as I think our work on POP probably helps demonstrate, we're all for the idea of finding ways to help non-core gamers experience (and finish) the type of games that have traditionally only been available to a select 'few' (relatively speaking, of course). If everyone out there who owns a Wii were to play and love RE5, you can bet that the budget Capcom would have available for RE6 would allow them to create something even more spectacular."
Todd Howard, Game Director, Bethesda
"Most people stop playing a certain game because they get frustrated or confused by what the game wants them to do. It becomes work and frustration, as opposed to ‘playtime.’ This idea clearly tries to alleviate that. It’s much like passing the controller to someone who knows the game really well, so you can move ahead or simply enjoy the story. It’s the classic ‘challenge or entertain’ issue that designers often deal with. I think there’s a lot of ways around that, and remained confused by what people are actually allowed to patent these days."
Jonathan Blow, Creator, Braid
"Based just on reading your posting... I don't know. I mean, it's an okay idea for a developer to have a way to show you through various parts of the game I guess, to show you side-quests you missed or whatever. I'd like to see someone try that. But as a general paradigm for playing games there are a lot of problems.
"The defining characteristic of a game is that you play it. If, in order for games to be accessible to a wider audience, we need to make it so that most people can skip over the playing it part, then what that really means is that our medium sucks. If you have to elide the basic property of your medium to make experiences in that medium desirable, then the medium itself is questionable at a very deep level.
"The proper solution is to start producing games that don't have this kind of problem — not to create the problem, then band-aid over it and hope people still have a good experience.
"The way you phrase it — "moving developers away from the notion of beginning, middle and end" — sounds cool, I would like to see more of that. But that is something that has to be a core component of the game's design. Just because you have random access to a linear experience doesn't make the experience nonlinear. You can skip to any part of a DVD movie that you want, but that doesn't mean the movie has gone away from the notion of beginning, middle, and end, you know?
"Unless you are drawing this conclusion from something I missed or that is in the original patent application, which I haven't read..."
Michael Wilford, CEO Twisted Pixel Games
"Kind Code is an interesting idea that is squarely aimed at reaching non-gamers. In fact, we often debate internally about ways to make gaming as culturally relevant as film or literature. Perhaps it's just a matter of time, or perhaps there are some systemic flaws in the way games are made and presented. Something like Kind Code, if done right, could be a way to reach anyone with your content without requiring them to be accomplished video game players.
However, if Kind Code is intended as a general solution that adds Digest Mode to all games, that might be like putting training wheels on all bicycles, including Lance Armstrong's. As long as the functionality can be tightly integrated into the right places in the right games, it could be the way to truly open gaming up to everyone. I'm sure we could find ways to use it in our character-driven games and make more people enjoy and laugh at our stuff than otherwise possible."
Honestly, I'm still lost as hell. I also, strangely, agree with everything said above. This istruly something that has me scratiching my head and 100% on the fence.
Discuss. Also, here's the Kotaku article linked. (http://kotaku.com/5127816/developers-respond-to-nintendos-hint-system-patent)
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Interesting reactions, however, I still say wait and see.
You know, I've realized something. Nintendo is the [tornado fang]ing king of creating controversy this gen XD
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Honestly, I love the controversy. It's good to mix things up and "up end tea tables" more often. XD
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Honestly, after all that happened after last year's E3, I'd SERIOUSLY love if they didn't create anymore.
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Honestly, after all that happened after last year's E3, I'd SERIOUSLY love if they didn't create anymore.
StarTropics 3 and a StarFox that kills StarFox 64 in terms of how good it is, THEN you can propose something like this. XD
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I meant controversy, not games. I'd die without my Nintendo games in future consoles D:
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You know, I've realized something. Nintendo is the [tornado fang]ing king of creating controversy this gen XD
I think people are just looking for controversies with them after the Wii's very existence rocked the boat. I mean, honestly, this patent is pretty mundane. In and of itself it means jack squat to us. But watching everyone react to it? Priceless.
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Honestly, after all that happened after last year's E3, I'd SERIOUSLY love if they didn't create anymore.
Nintendo's Fall Conference shows why E3 is totally useless now.
And hey, look at the discussion we all had about just the idea of the patent. At least Ninty got us talking! XD
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I think people are just looking for controversies with them after the Wii's very existence rocked the boat. I mean, honestly, this patent is pretty mundane. In and of itself it means jack squat to us. But watching everyone react to it? Priceless.
Insert Shiggy Just As Planned pic here.
Nintendo's Fall Conference shows why E3 is totally useless now.
And hey, look at the discussion we all had about just the idea of the patent. At least Ninty got us talking! XD
I find it hilarious that E2.5 has only existed for two years and made everyone bail out, meanwhile, E3 '09 from insider reports seems to be going back to the style that made E3 2006 so awesome. God, how I loved live feed from E3 2006. XD
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Nintendo's Fall Conference shows why E3 is totally useless now.
And hey, look at the discussion we all had about just the idea of the patent. At least Ninty got us talking! XD
True, it's just the fanboy reactions that get on my nerves that make me wish that.
Insert Shiggy Just As Planned pic here.
I find it hilarious that E2.5 has only existed for two years and made everyone bail out, meanwhile, E3 '09 from insider reports seems to be going back to the style that made E3 2006 so awesome. God, how I loved live feed from E3 2006. XD
Which one was that? Shiggy with the Master Sword? I need videos D:
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True, it's just the fanboy reactions that get on my nerves that make me wish that.
LoL, are you kidding? The Fanboys are what make it so hilarious.
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I've just never been tolerant to so much stupidity XD
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I've just never been tolerant to so much stupidity XD
Taiyo, if you were around GameFAQ's Tatsunoko vs. Capcom boards for the last few months, you would have at least built up some level of tolerance by now! 8D
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But that was after! 8D
Not to mention the TvC stuff was one forum only, the post E3 stupidity was EVERYWHERE.
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Taiyo, if you were around GameFAQ's Tatsunoko vs. Capcom boards for the last few months, you would have at least built up some level of tolerance by now! 8D
It was bad?
Then again, NOTHING could ever be as bad as Smashboards during the Brawl hype.
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Taiyo, if you were around GameFAQ's Tatsunoko vs. Capcom boards for the last few months, you would have at least built up some level of tolerance by now! 8D
LoL, you've peeked my curiosity!
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Then again, NOTHING could ever be as bad as Smashboards during the Brawl hype.
I think you mean Gamefaqs XD That board is considered stupidity hell...ON GAMEFAQS ITSELF! XD
It was bad?
It can't compare to Brawl or E3 though.
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Which one was that? Shiggy with the Master Sword? I need videos D:
Wasn't it the one that started all those terrible Playstation 3 memes like "FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY-NINE U.S. DOLLARS" and "GIANT ENEMY CRAB"?
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Well um...
I can't say [parasitic bomb] that what hasn't been posted but it did indeed left me to think about one thing in particular.
As Sky one posted in a thread of "what makes a game good?" and she posted, "A good game is when I want to replay it".
What made me ask, aside from the many games I enjoyed (anime, movies too, but I can't remember them all, and even Myanimelist doesn't help XD) and loved, what will make us replay it? even if for no little extras gained. Even if it's all gonna come down to opinion. Sonic the Hedgehog nor Megaman had much extra, but we still replayed the [parasitic bomb] out of it. Or for a more current and perhaps now, we still would replay a Final Fantasy that doesn't have a new game+ *looks at Chrono Trigger* or a Phoenix Wright, or a Knights of the Old Republic or a Half-Life or a Street Fighter?
I won't deny, I have days (and still do) where I would overwhelmed for having way too interests and feel that I don't have the time for it rather than take it one free time/day off at a time, despite of fun things that also might take away time, even if reading articles and forums like this or just glancing around or chatting w/ people when there are so many novels, graphic novels, shows(animation added), movies, games, places to look at, drawings to finish, looking at porn, talking w/ a friend or someone you love, etc.
Considering this, I mean...this option is not a bad thing too, even for those w/ one too many interests...or my problem is that I lack focus XD
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hmm...If I'm understanding this correctly this will allow you to select any scene in the game? Which means you can replay dungeons and bosses?
If so then sign me up 8D.
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Game Overthinker tells us what's what (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhHu8D2oPic&fmt=18)
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Game Overthinker tells us what's what (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhHu8D2oPic&fmt=18)
He truly put it in perspective. I for one, look forward to such a shift in design.
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I cast level 500 Threadcromancy!
Nintendo confirms secret 'Help' feature (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2009/06/67677679/1)
Notably, New SMB Wii will have it. This bodes well for Zelda!
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So it's finally happening. On a 2.5D platform game too. >U<
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What's funny is I think I saw a hint of this new design in New Play Control! Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat. I wanted to mention it, but couldn't find the thread.
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We'll see how this turns out.
And Payton_34 is an idiot.
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And Payton_34 is an idiot.
true, but i gotta give him credit for that Futurama reference.
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Necroposting for a good cause:
At least according to one guy from MTV, Nintendo's Super Guide feature really is a bless for hardcore gamers, as New Super Mario Bros. Wii is apparently balls hard.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/95316-New-Super-Mario-Bros-Wii-Reportedly-Wicked-Hard
You remember those ghost house levels from "Super Mario World" where you had to stay on the moving platform and it slowly chugged past ghosts and other obstacles? Ok, imagine that, but turn the platform into a slavering bone dragon and speed it up by about 3 times. Oh, and throw on three other homicidal friends who would rather jump on your head than let you make a perfectly timed jump. I went in expecting instant success, I left with zero lives and a lower sense of self worth.
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Best news.
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You remember those ghost house levels from "Super Mario World" where you had to stay on the moving platform and it slowly chugged past ghosts and other obstacles? Ok, imagine that, but turn the platform into a slavering bone dragon and speed it up by about 3 times. Oh, and throw on three other homicidal friends who would rather jump on your head than let you make a perfectly timed jump. I went in expecting instant success, I left with zero lives and a lower sense of self worth.
Best preview ever.
It's funny, though. The fact that this feature is going to be in NSMB reminds me of the fact that it's not really original, just more accessible. Super Mario Advance 4 did the same thing to demonstrate tricks for certain levels. Of course you happen to need two GBA systems and an e-Reader to see it.
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The best part of this system is the idea that Nintendo Hard could be rising from it's grave to teach this generation what challenge means. XD
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Now I want this even more! There's already so much stuff I want for the end of the year, why must you do this to me Nintendo?! D:
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Super Mario Advance 4 did the same thing to demonstrate tricks for certain levels. Of course you happen to need two GBA systems and an e-Reader to see it.
Once I talked to someone who figured out a way to take SMA4 movies played in VisualBoyAdvance and turn them into e-card data. Though I'm not sure they would synch on the real system...
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Certainly an interesting idea. You can print e-Reader cards (photo paper helps), it's the only way to get the unreleased levels and switches, so it might be worth attempting.
The best part of this system is the idea that Nintendo Hard could be rising from it's grave to teach this generation what challenge means. XD
You were obviously never equipped with Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn.